Parallel slide aquarium

[Dale]

Before I break slides and objectives I thought a question might save some misery.
I would like to fasten a thin wall around a slide, fill it with a mighty sample of pond water,
then lower another slide on top.
1. How high could the wall be and still allow focusing to the bottom of the well?
2. Should I restrict the dimensions of the wall so that only a cover slip would be on top?
Dale

[75RR]

I take it you will be using a stereo scope on this mini-aquarium?
A perti dish might be a good way to test the depth you can focus to.

[KurtM]

I think you need an inverted microscope and some Petri dishes. Yes, definitely.

[zzffnn]

For compound objectives, 10x NA 0.25 and lower can tolerate 2 mm of water or glass. Optical property of water and glass is close to each other, at lower NA (<= 0.4).

For regular (non-inverted 1.2 mm correcred ) 20x NA 0.4 objective, I won't go above 1mm water or glass. 0.5 mm or less would be better.

Dissecting scopes, due to their low NA, can usually tolerate over 4 mm of glass or water.

The micro - aquarium I use for a regular compound stage (scope) has regular slide (1mm) bottom, 1mm side walls and open top. When I need a flat top for higher NA (>=0.4) objectives, I put on 0.17 mm cover slips.

I have two inverted tissue culture objectives corrected for >1mm cover. I use them successfully on an upright (regular compound) scope with regular condenser.

One is a NA 0.4 20x corrected for 1.2 mm cover, this one gives good resolution and is quite tolerant with water/wall thickness.

The other one is a NA 0.55 30x with correction collar from 0.9-1.5mm, this one gives better resolution but is very sensitive to water thickness and difficult to use, due to spherical aberration I produces by water thickness. I have to set the cover correction exactly right to get good image.

[Dale]

Oh Fan, it will take some time to absorb what you posted, but I think all my answers are there. Thanks.
Actually this is for the compound scope, although the zoom goes to 120X.
I just sold my parts scope, but I doubt that would pay for any kind of inverted scope. But I am all ears
Dale

[zzffnn]

Dale,

The following two videos were filmed with that 30x NA 0.55 inverted objective, on an upright compound scope, shooting through 1mm of water:

https://youtu.be/WgnzJfGVjqs
https://youtu.be/Z8mHXm-0XEk

As you can see, image quality is not as good as thin mount under cover slip, but you can better capture some difficult or rare subject/events in a thick mount.

Also, second video looks better than the first one, most likely due to better control/correction of water thickness.

[KurtM]

I was more or less kidding about an inverted scope, although it's seriously fun to own one and they're great for large pond water sample exploration. My AO 1810 ran about $250, but includes mechanical stage and phase contrast. Takes lots of patience watching eBay to get a deal like that.

[zzffnn]

Kurt, use that beast with your hydra and post some photos! Please!

[Dale]

What a monster! What a good deal, I just spent an hour scoping out ebay, and saw nothing but model 1820's
that were nowhere near as nice as yours. Learned a lot by reading the manuals, especially the Olympus pdf.
That 2nd video was much better than the 1st, thanks.
Dale

[einman]

Here is a video I did using an inverted scope:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sNOXsIeipk

and another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Ae4YNifZ0

[lorez]

I just sold my parts scope, but I doubt that would pay for any kind of inverted scope

Dale, I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy...

It's a 'livet story, but probably worth telling.

This guy was trying to build an Olympus CH inverted phase scope with a triocular head from the pieces parts on the mighty eBay. After some strategic bidding he was successful in attaining the final pieces of his quest. Several days later the package arrived in good condition and " what to his wondering eyes should appear", but an AO inverted microscope like Kurt's... NOT the Olympus he bid on.

The scope is now in good condition and needs only a specimen holder 'finger' to be complete. The guy is willing to make a deal.

lorez

[Dale]

Ok, let me go look up the details on that scope, while you have 'some guy' check out these two, please:
1.http://www.ebay.com/itm/172105072644?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT
2. http://www.ebay.com/itm/252296920627?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT
Dale

Great. Just wasted the last half hour looking at Olympus CH models and manuals. Fun, but now I will go look at
'beast mode' specifics.

[KurtM]

The AO 1810 isn't really what I'd call a beast. It's taller than usual, sure, but its footprint on the bench is actually rather modest, about that of an AO 10. Weighs only a tiny bit more. Most 1810's found on eBay have no mechanical stage, nor phase contrast. But I would think the mechanical stage, at least, fairly indispensable. There is no provision that I am aware of for a camera port, as in, trinoc head.

The 1820 seems to be the preferred model of the two AO inverteds for a variety of reasons, but it appears to require more bench acreage, taking it nearer to beast status. Also most commonly seen without mechanical stage and/or phase contrast. But since it uses a normal 110/120 head, trinoc option is no problem.

I've seen vintage Olympus and Nikon inverted scopes on eBay with tantalizing accessories like mechanical stage, phase contrast, etc., for pretty tempting prices. I'd have pounced if I didn't already have such a nice one already. I'd like to get an 1820, but again, I don't need two and no way I'll part with my cherry 1810. But I'd sure like to have that camera port.

For me, the best part of inverted microscopes is that they're just so darn cool looking!

EDIT: My 1810 came to me missing only one thing: the slide carrier "fingers". But I found it super easy to make a great Petri dish carrier out of thin styrene plastic from the hobby shop (that was even a perfect AO gray color!), that also carries slides just fine. It works out better for me than the slide holder ever would have.

[Dale]

The ones I saw did not have phase either, and since my use is mostly live translucent specimens the
phase is really a necessity. It looks like Lorez' friend may have the best deal. It's amazing what people
will sell with no knowledge on ebay.
There might be a chance my AO10 trinoc head would fit the model 1810, a bonus but not a deal breaker.
What is this specimen holder finger you mention?
Dale.

[zzffnn]

Kurt,

I could he totally wrong, though it seems that 1810 uses the same head as AO 150: http://m.ebay.com/itm/American-Optical- ... nav=SEARCH

Some 150's heads have photo tube options. I have seen them though not often. As orientation of that photo tube is vertical (straight up) for an upright scope, on a inverted, that photo tube would be horizontal. I don't know if that will work for you/your camera rig.

I would like to you how you make that slider holder finger, when you have a chance (no rush).

[Dale]

Ok, I know what slide fingers are now, that's the kinda stuff I like to fabricate myself also. Looking
even a bit closer, Fan, I see what you mean by the tube orientation.
Kurt, is your stage oversize? It looks like my router table! You said you would like a model 1820, is
that just for photo purposes?
OK, I have had time to study the differences. I saw a good view of an 1810 stage and can see it is just
big naturally!
I read all the micro-aquarium posts, will do it again when I'm not so sleepy. What really
caught my attention was your strong endorsement of having the movable stage.
My parallel slide aquarium has turned into something much bigger.
Dale

[KurtM]

AO 10 head won't work with 1810, where the head is attached with two screws rather than dovetailed. The AO 150 head might work, will check it out. The stage is oversized, but can't measure it since I'm 6 hours from home and will be for a few more weeks. The 1820 is a refinement just as the 110/120 is a refinement over the 10/20; just a little "better" all the way around (which is certainly open to debate). So that, plus photo port, makes it attractive to me. But as I said, the 1810 takes less space.

[zzffnn]

For 1810's head options, please look into Neeley's AO 150/50/60 manual and report back. I am guessing a teaching head splitter, if available, can allow you to put a mono and a bino head on the same body and use the mono head for camera at a comfortable angle.

[apochronaut]

There are sometimes, Swift inverted stands around for very little. I've seen them for not much more than 100.00. There is also the Will--Wetzlar Willovert. Sometimes they get overlooked too, in favour of Nikon or other and eventually sell cheaply.

[Dale]

For 1810's head options, please look into Neeley's AO 150/50/60 manual and report back.

I found nothing there. Once the scope is on the bench I'll worry about it.

[lorez]

Dale,

The 1810 the guy has is not a phase contrast. The 1810 does not have any easy (intended) photo options. There was a dual view body made for the 150 series that would fit, but not conveniently. Bodies from the series 10 do not fit as the mounting system is completely different.

lorez

[Dale]

It was just the best I could find for an 1810 model comparison.
The 1820 looked promising, but when I asked about it he told me to get lost. I am not kidding.
It did not have a moveable stage either.
I'm sure 'your guy' would supply pictures and spec's, right?
The cost of this scope should not impact my long range plan.
Dale

[lorez]

he told me to get lost.

Probably for the better. The scope I mentioned has been refurbished and is in good working order with the exception of the specimen holder 'finger'. It is something that could be fabricated with a bit of effort.

It looks like the ebay photo you linked with the exception of the mechanical stage which looks like the one on Kurt's scope, but without his modification.

lorez

[KurtM]

The 1820 looked promising, but when I asked about it he told me to get lost. I am not kidding.

What? What exactly did you ask him??

[Dale]

My questions:
What powers are the eyepieces and objectives?
What makes it a 'tissue culture' scope?
Are you the user or re-seller?
Any more photos? The one is nicely done.

His reply:
I am a veterinarian and have 2 of these one for parts the other with all objectives. we view eggs and zygotes with units. do not write unless you true want to purchase stop wasting your time and mine

I have deleted my desktop link to his ad, but it is one of the two I listed. I have moved on to a much better deal.
Whilst I have your attention Kurt, have you a link to any information on the 1810? I am at a brick wall.
Dale

[KurtM]

I don't think I've ever seen any info on the 1810 other than possibly a picture in an old catalog ... but I'm far from home at present, so cannot take a look at my AO docs. I can take a look when I get back, but it'll be a few more weeks yet.

Speaking as an old eBayer who has some impressive bargains to his credit and never been burned, I wouldn't be so quick to write off a seller such as you describe just because he snarled at you. My horse sense tells me he's not a "professional seller", just a guy trying to move some old stuff with today's equivalent of the classified ads, which means probably just a good old honest everyday dude - who may be something of a grouch for any number of reasons: dealing with computer stuff he doesn't fully understand, or dealing with goofballs before you came along, who knows? He sounds like the sort of person who delivers what he says he'll deliver, and knows a thing or two about microscopes as well.

Not saying you should go running back to him, especially if the deal isn't to your liking. Just saying we grouchy old farts of the world need love too.

[Dale]

Sorry Kurt, I keep forgetting you're on the road.
I don't want his scope any way, no mechanical stage.
Back to the Sawdust Factory.
Dale