Doing Diatoms

[KurtM]

Fan is obviously a wild man when it comes to diatom studies. I'm gonna have to hide all my slides from him if he ever comes over to visit.

I agree, however, that the strew density is perfect. VERY nicely done! And who needs a bunch of larger forms anyway?

[rnabholz]

Very nice work, Rod. That dilution worked perfectly, to my eyes.

Those diatoms there are not too small. Those even larger slender ones are very easy to break, I have broken quite a few when I broken my Klaus Kemp slides. Large slender ones, such as Gyrosigma, always break first.

Thanks zz!

There are some decent sized ones left, but decidedly less than was in the live sample, but as you can see, some pretty cool ones remain. I may have been a bit hasty declaring the batch a failure.

In any case I prepared three slides each from the other two batches, and will give them a look after they dry. Here is the evening's project, 6 new slides and ringing on 10.

[rnabholz]

Fan is obviously a wild man when it comes to diatom studies. I'm gonna have to hide all my slides from him if he ever comes over to visit.

I agree, however, that the strew density is perfect. VERY nicely done! And who needs a bunch of larger forms anyway?

Thank you Sensei.....You have taught me well.

I do have to admit zz, you do seem to have some issues with Diatom slides. What gives? ;^)

[gekko]

Not that I know what I'm talking about (so please pay no attention to me), but it does seem to me that the density is just right or even somewhat on the sparse side. Much better than the strewn diatom slide that I have where the diatoms are almost on top of each other.

[rnabholz]

Not that I know what I'm talking about (so please pay no attention to me), but it does seem to me that the density is just right or even somewhat on the sparse side. Much better than the strewn diatom slide that I have where the diatoms are almost on top of each other.

Thanks Gekko. I agree, I prefer when I can trace the outline of the form without interference.

Thanks

Rod

[rnabholz]

A family outing for a bike ride took us to the Northeast Iowa community of Decorah. Knowing that one of Iowa's most scenic rivers, the Upper Iowa river, passed through that town, I threw my sample gathering kit in the car.

I was able to gather three samples, two from the river itself, and a third from a very small tributary creek. The stones in the creek exhibited an unusual color of orange on their surface.

May2916 OrangeRock.JPG (141.33 KiB) Viewed 383087 times

My usual targets have a brownish covering, but I was intrigued by just what that orange might hold, so I grabbed a rock for a sample.

At home, I took a quick look at live samples, and all the samples gathered held diatoms. Here are a few afocal phone photos for the record.

May2916 Live2.JPG (120.99 KiB) Viewed 383087 times

May2916 Live1.JPG (76.57 KiB) Viewed 383087 times

The orange rock sample didn't immediately show any new forms, but my livr sample slide was not intended to be comprehensive, what fun would that be? There would be no surprises left after cleaning. But I did find this colonial that grows in a tube. The tube will not survive the cleaning, but the diatoms do. Of course, the larvae parked right next to it is going to have a bad day....

May2916 Live3.JPG (139.25 KiB) Viewed 383087 times

Stay tuned.

[KurtM]

Oh boy, now that colony is interesting! Maybe get a few more pics of it for posterity? I have a bad feeling a rather severe acid rain is in the cards for that bunch...

[exmarine]

Hi Rab,
So now you have your sample what methodology will you be using to clean them? I do not use acids of any description as I am more an incineration person, once they have been through a process of removing as much detritus as possible. Look forward to your method.
Good luck.

[zzffnn]

Hi Rab,
So now you have your sample what methodology will you be using to clean them? I do not use acids of any description as I am more an incineration person, once they have been through a process of removing as much detritus as possible. Look forward to your method.
Good luck.

Exmarine,

Have you made any significant improvement over that incineration protocol?

Is a blow torch really necessary? How about just cook/incinerate with a disposable aluminum container and control surface temperature with a remote IR reader?

[rnabholz]

Hi Rab,
So now you have your sample what methodology will you be using to clean them? I do not use acids of any description as I am more an incineration person, once they have been through a process of removing as much detritus as possible. Look forward to your method.
Good luck.

Hi exmarine,

Well this entire thread has been to a large extent my progress in developing a cleaning process, and it is still a work in progress.

At this point I have gotten the best results using Hydrogen Peroxide 35% and Potassium Dichromate. Overnight soak in HP, then a tiny amount of PD, wait until the reaction ceases, then multiple rinses.

I have heard of incineration, do you have an outline of your protocol you could share?

Thanks

Rod

[zzffnn]

Rod,

There is one protocol publication in in Kurt's thread. Direct link here:

http://www.diatoms.co.uk/ad/vol6pt1.htm#zcdc

[KurtM]

exmarine, I think it's safe to say that we could use all the help we can get in "removing as much detritus as possible". How do you do it?

[zzffnn]

Rod,

Please give it a try with disposable aluminum containers (heated with kitchen stove), for our Diatom Hunter Club. President Kurt has got some very good but inconsistent results before.

That processes could be done within an hour. Just don't cook too much and use your remote thermometer to keep temperature below say 300 Celsius. I would have tried it for you already, if I have everything set up.I do not think a hand torch is necessary.

[exmarine]

Ref getting rid of as much detritus as possible I filter the sample through a double layer of 'tights' (its great fun getting the tights off in the beginning). Then into a solution of Hydrogen Peroxide 9% and leave overnight. Then I use the incineration method as in Amateur Diatomist. Link above.
I am still in the process of trying to download photos. I have joined photobucket and flicker but to no avail.
Good luck with the cleaning methods.

[gekko]

I am still in the process of trying to download photos. I have joined photobucket and flicker but to no avail.

exmarine, try the following:
If when you are looking at your image on Photobucket you see to the right of the image, under "SHARE THIS PHOTO" one of the items labeled "IMG", then simply click on that field, it will turn yellow momentarily to indicate the the IMG code has been copied, then simply paste it in your post on the Microbe Hunter forum. If the IMG codes is not displayed to the right of your image, then:
After logging onto Photobucket, click on the avatar icon, then on "Settings", click on the "Albums" button at the top, and if the box next to IMG Code is not checked, click on it so it is checked (if it is already checked, then you don't have to do anything), then click on "SAVE" at the bottom. Now when you open an image, you will see on the right, under "SHARE THIS PHOTO", the IMG code. Click on it (the field turns yellow momentarily indicating that the code has been copied). In the Microbe Hunter forum, in your post where you want to post the picture, simply paste the code (^V if you are using Windows). That's it. It will paste the complete code like so:
[QMG]http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u49 ... g~original[/QMG]
(where I replaced the "I" in "IMG" with "Q" to prevent actually posting the image here).
In short, once you have the IMG code displayed for your pictures, just click on it, then paste it in the forum.
I hope this works for you. It has for me for a long time.

[rnabholz]

Ref getting rid of as much detritus as possible I filter the sample through a double layer of 'tights' (its great fun getting the tights off in the beginning). Then into a solution of Hydrogen Peroxide 9% and leave overnight. Then I use the incineration method as in Amateur Diatomist. Link above.
I am still in the process of trying to download photos. I have joined photobucket and flicker but to no avail.
Good luck with the cleaning methods.

I love the idea of using tights as a filtering screen. I have 3 collected samples awaiting processing and I am going to build myself a filter and use it on these.

Thank you for the tip!

[rnabholz]

As stated the mission was a Tights Strainer.

Looking for the materials to build one I came across these that I had saved for an unknown-at-the-time-but-certain-to-arise situation. Today was the day.

Filter Cups.jpg (94.03 KiB) Viewed 383000 times

By cutting the bottom out of one cup, and cutting another slightly higher I could make two pieces that would nest. Then I could use the top section to be the strainer frame, and the lower section to be the catch cup. I made the cuts and cut another cup to act as a second catch cup.

Then a slightly embarrassing trip to the Dollar Store for some knee high stockings and a rubber band from the drawer and the materials were gathered.

Filter stockings.jpg (89.78 KiB) Viewed 383000 times

I cut the top and toe off of one of the stockings, split it down it's length, then folded it over to make two layers and used the rubber band to fix it in place on the top section of the cup.

Filter Mounted.jpg (67.44 KiB) Viewed 383000 times

Now for a test. Using the remnants of an older sample, I used a turkey baster to place some of the sample on the stocking. It was clear that the stocking was too tight as the water just sat on the flat stretched stocking. Looking for something I could throw onto the stocking to make it sag into more of cone shape, I reached in my pocket and pulled out some change. A nice smooth rock or marble or ball bearing might be a better choice.

In any case the strainer was doing its job, I could hear water dropping into the catch cup and after a few minutes the water had passed and left the strained material gathered on the stocking cover.

Filter Catch.jpg (70.26 KiB) Viewed 383000 times

Below in the catch cup was a much clearer sample, but now for the real test.

Placing some of the material from the catch cup on a slide I was well pleased to see a great density of diatoms of all sizes and shapes. It would appear that the strainer passed the good stuff while straining out significant undesirable deritus.

The filter cleans right out by removing it from the catch cup and running water through it from the bottom. Clean as a whistle and ready for the next batch.

I did three more and set them aside to settle. I am hoping this will make a great difference with the time and chemicals that it takes to clean these samples. I should be able to answer that question shortly.

Filter Settling.jpg (98.07 KiB) Viewed 383000 times

[gekko]

Beautiful work. I like the elegance of simple, home-made stuff that works.

[rnabholz]

Beautiful work. I like the elegance of simple, home-made stuff that works.

Thanks Gekko -credit for the stockings idea goes to exmarine. I had tried a metal strainer and coffee filters, and both were dismal failures, one way to big and one that didn't pass many diatoms. This seems to be a nice middle ground.

I have them cooking now.

May29Batches.jpg (69.58 KiB) Viewed 382995 times

[KurtM]

Fascinating - so you must be calling the tights filter a success if you have the results cooking? Have you looked at any of the material caught by the filter medium (the brand new stockings you so callously soiled) to see just exactly what has been left behind?

Separating diatoms from debris and detritus is a big deal. A great big huge honking deal. I am hoping this works even more than you, if that's even possible...

And after that, I want to know how one scrubs the insides of Erlenmeyer flasks clean...

[Charles]

Love it! Did you check the material on top of your filter to see if you have diatoms that didn't make it through the stocking?

Edit: Kurt beat me to it!

[Charles]

And after that, I want to know how one scrubs the insides of Erlenmeyer flasks clean...

Bottle brushes?

[rnabholz]

Fascinating - so you must be calling the tights filter a success if you have the results cooking? Have you looked at any of the material caught by the filter medium (the brand new stockings you so callously soiled) to see just exactly what has been left behind?

Separating diatoms from debris and detritus is a big deal. A great big huge honking deal. I am hoping this works even more than you, if that's even possible...

And after that, I want to know how one scrubs the insides of Erlenmeyer flasks clean...

I did not check the filtered material, as i was not sure what I would do about it anyway. I suppose I could re-suspend and strain again, but after looking at the passed material. I was satisfied that it matches pretty well with the results I had seen previously in live samples from this batch.

There was some reduction of the volume of course, but I checked the sample that I had processed previously and would say that everything that I had seen in earlier checks of that sample was present in the strained sample, even extended chains of colonial forms which I think speaks volumes about the ability of the strainer to pass large forms, the ones I would be most worried about losing.

Looks promising. I will report.

[KurtM]

Bottle brushes?

Examples?

[Charles]

http://www.acehardware.com/product/inde ... a_23151075
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Munchkin-Bris ... 79&veh=cse

Or more traditional:
http://www.culturesforhealth.com/bottle ... r+cultures+

[zzffnn]

Pore micron size of stockings can be measured using microscope and stage micrometer. That way one will know for sure what will be filtered out. Stocking pore size is likely over 100 microns, while coffee filters seem to have 20 micron sizes.

[rnabholz]

Here is what I use for brushes

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/221943583863

[rnabholz]

Pore micron size of stockings can be measured using microscope and stage micrometer. That way one will know for sure what will be filtered out. Stocking pore size is likely over 100 microns, while coffee filters seem to have 20 micron sizes.

I will see what I can do.

[KurtM]

Thanks Charles and Rod for bottle brush recommendations.

[DaveH]

I would like to thank the OP and all who have posted in this fantastic thread.

And after that, I want to know how one scrubs the insides of Erlenmeyer flasks clean...

For cleaning odd shaped bottles that have gone green with water samples in them I have always used a handful of sharp sand, half fill with water and give a good shake, it's a tip my father showed me in the 1950s.

On another note what a great thread, every thing you need to know in one place, if I had more time I would join in maybe later in the summer.

Dave