Unsuccessful diatom collection kayak trip

[zzffnn]

We took a kayak diatom collection trip today at a bayou near Texas / Galveston gulf, took two samples and examined them fresh, but did NOT obtain good amounts of diatoms.

Location is here: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.5917763 ... a=!3m1!1e3

And the site looks like this

A location.jpg (248.95 KiB) Viewed 11450 times

The first sample that I took was from a sunken piece of tree bark. This sample produced 3-4 types of ciliates and 3-4 types of diatoms (but did not have many). I made one thick well slide from this sample. I regret not checking the brownish spots under microscope, on my boat, on site. And I failed to take sufficient amount of those brownish spots, since I forgot to take my knife with me (I could not find those spots when we got back home, as those spots sort of got washed/rubbed off). Next time I will remember.

A Sample 1.jpg (211.75 KiB) Viewed 11450 times

The second sample was from a water bottle, which was mostly closed and clean on the outside, but had lots of "mud" inside. This sample had lots of tiny organic debris, but almost no living organism under 10x objective. I made 3 thick well slides from this sample.

A Sample 2.jpg (496.63 KiB) Viewed 11450 times

The collection location had lots of duck weed.

It was 95F mostly under direct sun, so we only paddled for about two hours. My 6yo son said he like the trip, though it was too hot. My son and I drank 1.4 litters of water within the first hour (we sweated a lot). Curiously, we did not sweat much in the 2nd hour, probably because we were dehydrated.

I would like to thank Kurt for his kind comments on the kayak route. We love it and will be going back for sure. The water is very shallow and the Armand Bayou - Horsepen Bayou route would be very family friendly and fun, when it is not too hot.

[gekko]

It looks like both you and your son enjoyed your excursion and the beautiful view (first image) despite the heat. Won't you show us something you got?

[zzffnn]

Sorry, I trashed the samples and did not record anything (as samples were not very interesting). Also did everything in a rush. I regret that. Those brownish spots on the tree bark could be concentrated diatoms, if I did not accidentally washed them away.

BTW, we saw a baby alligator, 4 types of birds and good amount of fish in Armand Bayou. It was fun.

Also we are going to Pensacola Beach of Florida in mid August. Anyone has any sample collection tips?

[KurtM]

Why do I get the feeling you'll be going back there later in the year when it cools off? Taking samples from a new area, and from a boat for the first time I'm guessing, makes this more of a scouting trip to learn the lay of the land than a real sample-gathering foray. Next time you'll be much better prepared since you now have a good idea of what to expect on all counts. Glad you had a good time! I know that bayou so well I can pinpoint where the first picture was taken, even what direction you were pointing (towards the park).

I hope you'll gather a bunch of samples in Pensacola. If you're taking requests, how about a good sand sample or two or three? Something like between half a cup and a cup of sand in sandwich size ziplock baggies makes generous samples, which may be collected together in a gallon size ziplock for containment. One or two dry samples from the beach, and a couple wet samples from near water's edge, preferably with slimy or mossy growths on 'em (for possible diatoms of course!).

I don't know if you want to, or even can, get all the above. But that's what I'd grab if I could, and I'll certainly be happy to take whatever I can get. I get all excited thinking about marine habitat sand samples, really brings out the arenophile in me!

If it happens that you'll be taking lots of samples, then target the usual suspects: slime, moss, etc., in the water's edge areas, same as if it were freshwater. But do be wary of stingrays, jellyfish, and sunburn, and wear polarized sunglasses!

[zzffnn]

Kurt,

I am definetly going back to Armand Bayou when it cools down (for collecting diatoms) and getting dry/wet sand samples from Pensacola Beach. Will send you some, if I find something interesting.

I suspect those brownish spots on my sunken tree bark were concentrated diatoms. Next time I will strip just that tree bark and take it without other sample/water, to make it pure and concentrated.

We stopped right before Housepen Bayou and headed back, when my son told me it was too hot for him. A kayaker that went before us saw 2-3 big gators, though we only saw a baby one.

[zzffnn]

Kurt,

How often do you see interesting subjects (foram, diatoms) from dry/wet sand? Like 5%-10% of the chances, in general? I do remember you hit a jackpot once, with some Florida sand.

I will take many Pensacola samples for sure. Though I did examine two dry sand samples before (1 from Galveston and 1 white sand sample from a construction site) for 40 min each and found only a few forams.

I understand that each sample location is different. The Armand Bayou, for example, is mostly fine oganic mud, with some mineral particles.

[KurtM]

I suspect those brownish spots on my sunken tree bark were concentrated diatoms.

Maybe, maybe not. A good golden-brown colored slime is a classic sign of diatoms, but in this area there are no guarantee. The only way to know is get a look through a microscope. One thing I'm unclear on: did you take a field scope along, or examine samples once back home? In any case, I feel obliged to say I have never found any rich supplies of diatoms anywhere within a couple hundred miles of home, although I do not wish to dissuade you from trying. In fact, I need to redouble my own efforts and try harder to find some myself, particularly since I have a little more experience now than when I last tried. So I'll make a deal with you: don't sweat the lost brown slime too much, and I won't either.

Forams: It's difficult to quantify my findings, so let's put it this way: to look for them I prepare a slide. The way I do that is apply mountant to a slide, sprinkle a bit of sand in it, and top with cover slip. You may be able to imagine what the perfect amount of everything is: where you end up with a single layer of sand grains strewn with just enough separation that each may be examined singly. In that case, under a standard square #2 slip, there may be anywhere from three to perhaps a dozen forams in a sample of Galveston beach sand.

Let's discuss mountant for sand later, as that subject bears its own focus.

In other sand samples, such as those a friend sent me from southwestern Florida, I have found fewer forams. But one of those samples turned up a wealth of marine diatoms, taken from "a half submerged sand bar". While I have found diatoms in other sand samples, never such a rich haul as that one.

Samples taken from "half submerged sand bars" around the Galveston Bay system have yielded scant diatomic results.

[rnabholz]

Hey zz,

You get full marks for just getting out there and trying. Goodness knows my failures are well documented, and while it is disappointing, don't let it discourage you from trying again.

The family and I are heading Wisconsin in couple weeks to do some canoeing and kayaking, and you can bet that there will be sample bottles on board. I am looking forward to that part the trip as much as anything!

Better luck next time!

Rod

[zzffnn]

Kurt,

I did not take along my field scope, so sample was examined at home (and it got diluted/washed off in sample bag).

What objective or total magnification do you use for forams? Is mountant necessary, if examined under less than 10x objective?

I used reflected (overhead) light, 4x compound objective and 10x EPs and found only a few suspects, from a dry spread of Galveston sand. No more than 3 for sure.

I have put lots of zipper bags, a knife and one more field scope into my Florida bag.

Rod,

Thank you. You are my inspiration. I will try harder.

[zzffnn]

Move to the other thread.

[KurtM]

Fan, if you have enough magnification to see individual sand grains, then forams should be apparent - they definitely stand apart with a distinct seashell shape and appearance. They're certainly visible in the stereo scope. A 4x objective should work fine for examining sand on a slide without cover slip or mountant.

As for mountant, it is no easy thing for sand since the cover slip sits so far off the slide - maybe as much as a full MM...? I tried UV cure acrylic, and epoxy, for mountant, neither of which gave thrilling results but worked nevertheless. Canada balsam is out; the huge gap allows it to seep and run out, leaving the sand high and dry while making a big mess of everything else. Experiments with Elmer's School Glue were likewise unsatisfactory. So what's the preferred mountant for sand? I'm still looking for it. Glycerin jelly might work if you just barely melt it...?

Is mountant even necessary? No, not for temporary slides. But I was, and am, endeavoring to make permanent slides.

[zzffnn]

I am guessing you have tried and did not like super glue or nail polish? If not, both are cheap enough to try and trash.

[KurtM]

I kinda hate to say it, but I'm so of a mind that neither of those would work I won't even bother to try. I have extensive experience with both (nothing like a previous life in fly tying and lure making for fishing to give a guy an education in thick, clear goopy materials).

[MichaelBrock]

Dragging up an old thread. Did you figure out something useful for making permanent sand slides? I'd love to have permanent slides for my sand collection.

I kinda hate to say it, but I'm so of a mind that neither of those would work I won't even bother to try. I have extensive experience with both (nothing like a previous life in fly tying and lure making for fishing to give a guy an education in thick, clear goopy materials).

[billbillt]

Hi,

I have had success with clear nail polish, but I don't use a cover slip.. I use objectives with a long WD to keep from making contact with the sand.. I just paint a stripe mid ways on the slide and then sprinkled the sand on it...I don't see the need for a cover slip in this case.. there is nothing to preserve..

BillT

[MichaelBrock]

Good to hear a positive experience for nail polish. I have plenty of sand, slides, and nail polish (or I think my wife does ) so I'll give it a try.

thanks,

Mike

Hi,

I have had success with clear nail polish, but I don't use a cover slip.. I use objectives with a long WD to keep from making contact with the sand.. I just paint a stripe mid ways on the slide and then sprinkled the sand on it...I don't see the need for a cover slip in this case.. there is nothing to preserve..

BillT

[billbillt]

Hi,

Please report how it worked for you... I would be happy to see some photos..

The Best,
BillT

[billbillt]

Here is a photo I took of the sand mount, afocal with stereo scope..

[zzffnn]

I prefer this glue from Hobby Lobby to nail polish:
https://www.hobbylobby.com/Crafts-Hobbi ... nd/p/28110

It is optically cleaner, produces less bubble/mess and settles faster than regular nail polish. Its consistency is close to silicone glue, when it is not settled.

I used that glue to bind a cover slip to slide, then examined it under microscope. It looked very nice and clear to my eyes. Just don't mess it around too much, after applying it.

I now use that glue to mount butterflies onto see-through double glass frames to make them look like they float in air. I did try two types of clear nail polish (slow curing and fast curing) for that task too, but did not like them (the fast curing nail polish is worse).

[lorez]

I might have to go to Hobby Lobby to get the Glass Bond... it's worth a try. I tried the fingernail polish and was disappointed when using a compound scope (2X and 4X objectives). So far I like the dry mount best. I just have to make a new slide each time.

lorez

[zzffnn]

I might have to go to Hobby Lobby to get the Glass Bond... it's worth a try. I tried the fingernail polish and was disappointed when using a compound scope (2X and 4X objectives). So far I like the dry mount best. I just have to make a new slide each time.

lorez

That glue looks good under compound scope, I think I looked at it with 4x or 10x objective. It looks like glass, though I have no way to measure RI.

The key is not to move the glue or subject around, after first application and contact.

For glass like subjects though, dry mount with no mount will give you better contrast, than with any mountant. You want RI difference between subject and mountant to be as large as possible.

For opaque subject under reflective light, it may not matter though.

Sorry, I added some information to my previous post, after you post.

[MichaelBrock]

Here is a picture of a quicky mount I did using "Hard as Nails" natural colored nail polish (the clearest one I had on hand). Incidental light with no transmitted light source. It was actually surprisingly clear for transmitted light as well but I didn't get a good shot of it. I'll get one.

[lorez]

MichaelBrock,

Your fingernail polish mount looks much better than mine. I've been reading a variety of journal articles and one mentioned canada balsam as the mounting medium for their slides.

lorez

[zzffnn]

Canada balsam is optically perfect. However, it turns yellow as it ages and it takes a long time to settle.

[MichaelBrock]

I found a number of "glass glues" on Amazon as well. This one claims to be "crystal clear":

https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-233841-S ... 215&sr=8-2

Probably take some refinement of technique for spreading it. Hard to beat the convenience of a nail polish. Here is a transmitted light picture of the mounted sample. Higher magnification (10x objective) and worse camera technique. I haven't found any air pockets in the nail polish and it seems fairly clear.

[charlie g]

Thanks for sharing this collection adventure,zzffnn, I love all the conversations. Yes the heat throws a wrench in outdoor activities... and yes less sweating is a sign to be heeded.

With public spaces collecting for diatoms...the trick is to not have folks think you are littering in the park. White Styrofoam cups can be buried at slant into shore line muck/sand/whatever is there..the diatoms of certain types will actively move up the side of this: 'awfwucks', my german is weak. Visually you may actually see bands at the water minicus where diatoms have streamed up the Styrofoam.


Similarly Styrofoam cup ( or strip of such a cup) may be placed on sticks..shove the stick into the bottom muck (you note that bayou is shallow enough to do this I think. Diatoms of many types are active and attracted to: 'awfwuks' ( I know my spelling is wrong!).

Even here in fingerlakes/NY..August State Fair is 'no go after an hour or so'..when the heat is too much, I am glad you stopped the trek before heat stroke, zzffnn!

Your son seems quite an enthusiastic naturalist, Fann...congrats! Charlie Guevara who often hikes with 'winter dogs' in intense heat in fingerlakes/NY