My First Diatom Hunt

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Timemaster1212
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My First Diatom Hunt

#1 Post by Timemaster1212 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:38 pm

So, i have been reading the procedures and collecting tips on diatoms recently and thought "I can do that". So today, i will go to a nearby stream and begin my hunt! Any tips and suggestions will be welcomed.

(BTW, the diatoms will be kept uncleaned because i do not have the materials for permanent slide making.)

Hobbyst46
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#2 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:03 pm

Suggestion: if you plan to clean your collected live diatoms in the future for mounting, collect a quantity that you can later divide into several portions for possible different cleaning protocols, because the results of the cleaning may vary and depend on the nature of the sample.

MicroBob
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#3 Post by MicroBob » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:44 pm

I'm sure you have a mounting medium availabe: Use air! Cleaned diatoms in air are very good to see.
If you store your diatoms uncleaned it would be a good idea to store them in alcohol to avoid bad smells.
For me it is best to view diatoms live or cleaned. Old stored uncleaned stuff is not that attractive.
There are methods to clean the diatoms acceptably well with little work.
Write on your sample where it is from, separate notes easily are lost.

Charles
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#4 Post by Charles » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:45 pm

You may want take a plastic bristle brush or toothbrush, a scoop or large spoon and turkey baster, plastic containers or large mouth jars with lids, tub and plastic Zip-lock bags.

For the collection of diatoms in a stream, I would collect from the underwater plants and surface of rocks.
For the plants, scrap the surface of the leaves and stems into a collection container. You may even want to take some of the leaves/stems with you. For the rocks, place in a tub and scrub the surface with a brush, rinse with a small amount of water and collect the rinse water into plastic containers. You could also take a sample of the sand in the stream near areas that have standing water.

Cleaning can be simple or complex. You can clean with drain cleaners which have sulfuric acid or hydrogen peroxide and HCl acid which can be found in hardware stores as muriatic acid. Just be cautious and wear gloves and face shields.

Here are some helpful videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrhSqu8YCBo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-uN2RPvDSM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVI-P0AWDd4&t=8s

Timemaster1212
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#5 Post by Timemaster1212 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:27 am

I was busy today with biking, but i managed to snag a few smaller rocks on my way back. I scrubbed them and rinsed them. I am letting the solution set right now and will post any interesting results

MicroBob
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#6 Post by MicroBob » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:28 am

Hi Charles,
I really like these videos but I always was puzzled about who made them and why. There are translations in many many languages, but few videos on other topics in this channel. Did they expect to earn money over youtube and it didn't work?

With drain cleaner it is important to look at the ingredients: In Germany the typical drain cleaner is NaOH plus aluminium chips. This would dissolve the diatoms very quick. What works for me is Clorix, a 2.6% natriumhypocloride solution. It is also alcalic but not too aggressive against the diatoms. It shouldn't be mixed with acids.

Charles
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#7 Post by Charles » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:51 am

Hi Bob,

These videos have been out there for a few years and I think they were made in Japan for the study of diatoms and water quality. I don't think it was for the money but looks to be a project.

Yes, alkaline based drain cleaners should be avoided since they will damage the glass frustules of diatoms. Some drain cleaners have sulfuric acid as the working agent which is what you want to use.

Charles
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#8 Post by Charles » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:52 am

Timemaster1212 wrote:I was busy today with biking, but i managed to snag a few smaller rocks on my way back. I scrubbed them and rinsed them. I am letting the solution set right now and will post any interesting results
Yes, do post the results. Should be interesting. What part of the world are you in?

Timemaster1212
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#9 Post by Timemaster1212 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:02 am

I am in central US, more specifically Tennessee. I have some pics, however please excuse the horribleness of them, i really do need a real microscope camera!

Timemaster1212
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#10 Post by Timemaster1212 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:08 am

Image
Image
Image

Timemaster1212
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#11 Post by Timemaster1212 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:24 am

It should be noted that this was one scan. However these little buggers are, for lack of better terms, microscopic! All i see from my 10x is a line (i found these by comparing uniform shapes to surrounding sediment). Is there a better way to find them?

(all pics are 40x with digital zoom)

Micro-Bob
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#12 Post by Micro-Bob » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:37 am

Your last image is actually quite ok. You might turn up the light further if this is possible.
To see the diatoms better you could go two ways: Watch bigger diatoms :D or use a stronger objective.
It always is an advantage to have the right density of obects on the slide. Enough space so they don't lie around in heaps and not too few objects so you don't have to hunt so long. A 16:1, 20:1 or 25:1 is a nice addition for many purposes.

Timemaster1212
Posts: 127
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#13 Post by Timemaster1212 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:57 pm

:D thanks man. I am not sure why the images are so dark when the actual picture I see through the microscope is decent. My density is very poor however, maybe the stream is not as bountiful as I thought? Who knows, I still have a whole jar to search through.

MicroBob
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#14 Post by MicroBob » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:56 pm

Maybe you have to tell your camera to expose longer, e.g. +2 stops.

One always has a mixture of water and sample and a fine sieve is useful to get the right concentration of objects on the slide.

I use this material to make sieves:https://www.ebay.de/itm/Edelstahlsieb-E ... Zpvegsqehg

50µ is a useful size. The mesh can be welded to a PE-tube with a soldering iron, hot spoon whatever ...

Timemaster1212
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#15 Post by Timemaster1212 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:08 pm

I wish I could expose longer, but my camera is a phone :lol: my next investment will probably be a proper camera. Would pantyhose work as a mesh? I plan on getting a lot more rock, and because of human intervention some glass bottles and such. Gathering these instead of rocks may reduce the amount of sediment. And just an idea for you guys to test along with me, but I was reading a PDF for diatoms and saw that seeding your own growth site may work (it would need to be constantly submerged for 4 weeks). I have a glass plane I want to try this with, this may prevent the pesto fine sediment we all dread.

MicroBob
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Location: Northern Germany

Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#16 Post by MicroBob » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:32 pm

Some camera apps allow to adjust the exposure.
Pantyhose probably will work, but it retains a lot of sample material an you might mix samples together.
Thes stainless stell meshs are really great, they are stiff, easy to mount to plastic surfaces and easy to clean.

Hobbyst46
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#17 Post by Hobbyst46 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:50 pm

I use filtering cloth, which apparently is in the market for the cheese and winery and beer industries. Comes in various mesh size, I find that about 500 microns is good for removing detritus and 25 microns becomes clogged rapidly, so 50 microns should indeed be fine.
Making a filter is easy if you have Coastar disposable screw-cap 50ml test tubes. You punch a large hole in the cap, so as to remove most of its central part. Then cut a 7x7cm or so of cloth, place it across the opening of the test tube and tighten the screw cap over the cloth. The filter cloth is now streched and retained. Cut off the bottom of the test tube so you have an open tube, ond end of which is covered with the cloth. Another trick - modify a second screw cap in the same manner, and glue the two rings back to back, using Super7 or Bison cement. Then you can pour the liquid through the tube and the filter directly into another (intact) 50 ml test tube. The cloth is disposable of course.

Timemaster1212
Posts: 127
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Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#18 Post by Timemaster1212 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:00 pm

Hmmm, well for the short term I will probably use pantyhose but I will definitely need to invest in that mesh

Timemaster1212
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:21 am

Re: My First Diatom Hunt

#19 Post by Timemaster1212 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:46 pm

Image
Image
Image
Image

Some more pics

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