Microscope Binohead for telescopes & with mirrors

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pdxhiker
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:31 am

Microscope Binohead for telescopes & with mirrors

#1 Post by pdxhiker » Wed May 29, 2019 7:46 pm

Greetings everyone.

I am looking for a Zeiss Microscope Head which can be modified to use in telescopes. Challenge is that most microscope heads are all prims and 6 something air to glass surfaces which introduces Spherical Aberrations at high-magnification and loss in contrast. I am looking for a head which has a mix of prisms and mirrors which helps to reduce the above two mentioned drawbacks. So far I know Zeiss and Lecia have made such heads, appreciate any guidance/help to identify few model numbers which I can pursue. I am open to buying used or from the manufactuer.
Compound
Standard 14/15/18 (not sure) | Illuminator 100 with 12V PS| Trinocular tube
PH Condenser Ph2,3, BF, DF | 6.3x Plan, 16x,25x, 40x,100x(Oil),Neofular Ph2 & Ph3, 40x PlanAPO Iris | 10x Eyepiece

Scarodactyl
Posts: 401
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: Microscope Binohead for telescopes & with mirrors

#2 Post by Scarodactyl » Wed May 29, 2019 8:26 pm

Both Zeiss and Leica introduce corrections in their tube lenses, so I am not sure they would be suitable for this kind of usage.

pdxhiker
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Microscope Binohead for telescopes & with mirrors

#3 Post by pdxhiker » Wed May 29, 2019 8:57 pm

Scarodactyl wrote:Both Zeiss and Leica introduce corrections in their tube lenses, so I am not sure they would be suitable for this kind of usage.
thank you, microscope heads are widely used in astronomy. I am not sure if the correcter is inside the tube. You can see the https://astromart.com/classifieds/astro ... dbest-unitof one such Zeiss BV converted to Astronomy use.
Compound
Standard 14/15/18 (not sure) | Illuminator 100 with 12V PS| Trinocular tube
PH Condenser Ph2,3, BF, DF | 6.3x Plan, 16x,25x, 40x,100x(Oil),Neofular Ph2 & Ph3, 40x PlanAPO Iris | 10x Eyepiece

apochronaut
Posts: 2730
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am

Re: Microscope Binohead for telescopes & with mirrors

#4 Post by apochronaut » Wed May 29, 2019 10:59 pm

Aside from the central beamsplitting prism, the Jentsch head for the AO series 10/20 used mirrors, as did the Seidentopf heads for the 100 series and the 400 series. The Jentsch head has a travelling telan lens, that compensates for the interpupillary change in tube length but it can easily be removed. It is a correcting part of the infinity system as well. The other two heads have just the correcting optic, which is easily removed and replaced with a window, if need be. The dovetail on them all is 2"( 50.4mm)
the series 10 Jenstch head is available pretty cheap, usually. The other two, not so much.

Here is one advertised as having clear optics, so it is returnable for a complete refund, if it doesn't. The # 176 eyepieces you won't likely need so you probably can get some of your money back for those.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Optic ... ctupt=true

pdxhiker
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Microscope Binohead for telescopes & with mirrors

#5 Post by pdxhiker » Thu May 30, 2019 5:52 am

apochronaut wrote:Aside from the central beamsplitting prism, the Jentsch head for the AO series 10/20 used mirrors, as did the Seidentopf heads for the 100 series and the 400 series. The Jentsch head has a travelling telan lens, that compensates for the interpupillary change in tube length but it can easily be removed. It is a correcting part of the infinity system as well. The other two heads have just the correcting optic, which is easily removed and replaced with a window, if need be. The dovetail on them all is 2"( 50.4mm)
the series 10 Jenstch head is available pretty cheap, usually. The other two, not so much.

Here is one advertised as having clear optics, so it is returnable for a complete refund, if it doesn't. The # 176 eyepieces you won't likely need so you probably can get some of your money back for those.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Optic ... ctupt=true
Thank you, The head shown in the link is too heavy for telescope use. Something similar Zeiss/Leica heads shown in the Astromart ad can be easily modified by changing EP holder to 1.25” and adding a T2 bayonet at the scope side.

Does anyone know which model of Zeiss binocular head uses mirrors instead of prisms.
Compound
Standard 14/15/18 (not sure) | Illuminator 100 with 12V PS| Trinocular tube
PH Condenser Ph2,3, BF, DF | 6.3x Plan, 16x,25x, 40x,100x(Oil),Neofular Ph2 & Ph3, 40x PlanAPO Iris | 10x Eyepiece

Scarodactyl
Posts: 401
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: Microscope Binohead for telescopes & with mirrors

#6 Post by Scarodactyl » Thu May 30, 2019 8:38 am

Come to think of it I actually have an extra Zeiss bino that I accidentally bought when I was trying to get a full head. I am not sure what is in it, and there is no part number on it, but looking in to the oculars it looks kind of mirrorey? I've never made that determination without opening a scope up though.
I have found zeiss parts and compatibility very confusing in general, from my brief attempt at getting a head for a headless t-ul base (I gave up and parted it out).
If you're interested in giving this bino a try you can have it for what I paid, 45usd plus shipping.
Pictures: https://imgur.com/a/GX0QYdm
Edit:nevermind, this one takes 23mm eyepieces. Oh well, to the 'bay it goes.
Last edited by Scarodactyl on Thu May 30, 2019 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

apochronaut
Posts: 2730
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am

Re: Microscope Binohead for telescopes & with mirrors

#7 Post by apochronaut » Thu May 30, 2019 12:36 pm

pdxhiker wrote:
apochronaut wrote:Aside from the central beamsplitting prism, the Jentsch head for the AO series 10/20 used mirrors, as did the Seidentopf heads for the 100 series and the 400 series. The Jentsch head has a travelling telan lens, that compensates for the interpupillary change in tube length but it can easily be removed. It is a correcting part of the infinity system as well. The other two heads have just the correcting optic, which is easily removed and replaced with a window, if need be. The dovetail on them all is 2"( 50.4mm)
the series 10 Jenstch head is available pretty cheap, usually. The other two, not so much.

Here is one advertised as having clear optics, so it is returnable for a complete refund, if it doesn't. The # 176 eyepieces you won't likely need so you probably can get some of your money back for those.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Optic ... ctupt=true
Thank you, The head shown in the link is too heavy for telescope use. Something similar Zeiss/Leica heads shown in the Astromart ad can be easily modified by changing EP holder to 1.25” and adding a T2 bayonet at the scope side.

Does anyone know which model of Zeiss binocular head uses mirrors instead of prisms.
That head weighs 2 lbs. There is a T2 to 2" dovetail adapter for it......but

I didn't understand that you wanted to use 1.25" eyepieces. For sure that is best but finding an economical 30mm binocular head limits your choices quite a bit. Some of the Chinese scopes with 22mm fields use 30mm Seidentopf heads. I would guess mirrored for those, since mirrors are cheaper to do than multiple prisms. . There isn't the same incentive to keep the weight of a microscope head down as there would be if it was balanced on the end of a telescope.

However, the Zeiss head that you are showing does not look like it includes a deviating prism or deviating prism section, which would cut the weight down some. The deviating prism is necessary in microscopes to change the angle , so the head has a comfortable viewing angle. Some microscopes have the deviating prism in the microscope body itself, so the head contains only the beamsplitter prism and 2, 90degree sections. In many cases with seidentopf types, the beamsplitter to viewing tube section can be removed from the deviating prism section, with a few screws leaving a flange mount. Lomo made one with 30mm eyetubes separate from the deviating prism, with a dovetailed entry port that would easily convert to a T2. I think it has double eyetube focusers too. Those should be available fairly cheaply.

pdxhiker
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Microscope Binohead for telescopes & with mirrors

#8 Post by pdxhiker » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:22 am

apochronaut wrote:
pdxhiker wrote:
apochronaut wrote:Aside from the central beamsplitting prism, the Jentsch head for the AO series 10/20 used mirrors, as did the Seidentopf heads for the 100 series and the 400 series. The Jentsch head has a travelling telan lens, that compensates for the interpupillary change in tube length but it can easily be removed. It is a correcting part of the infinity system as well. The other two heads have just the correcting optic, which is easily removed and replaced with a window, if need be. The dovetail on them all is 2"( 50.4mm)
the series 10 Jenstch head is available pretty cheap, usually. The other two, not so much.

Here is one advertised as having clear optics, so it is returnable for a complete refund, if it doesn't. The # 176 eyepieces you won't likely need so you probably can get some of your money back for those.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Optic ... ctupt=true
Thank you, The head shown in the link is too heavy for telescope use. Something similar Zeiss/Leica heads shown in the Astromart ad can be easily modified by changing EP holder to 1.25” and adding a T2 bayonet at the scope side.

Does anyone know which model of Zeiss binocular head uses mirrors instead of prisms.
That head weighs 2 lbs. There is a T2 to 2" dovetail adapter for it......but

I didn't understand that you wanted to use 1.25" eyepieces. For sure that is best but finding an economical 30mm binocular head limits your choices quite a bit. Some of the Chinese scopes with 22mm fields use 30mm Seidentopf heads. I would guess mirrored for those, since mirrors are cheaper to do than multiple prisms. . There isn't the same incentive to keep the weight of a microscope head down as there would be if it was balanced on the end of a telescope.

However, the Zeiss head that you are showing does not look like it includes a deviating prism or deviating prism section, which would cut the weight down some. The deviating prism is necessary in microscopes to change the angle , so the head has a comfortable viewing angle. Some microscopes have the deviating prism in the microscope body itself, so the head contains only the beamsplitter prism and 2, 90degree sections. In many cases with seidentopf types, the beamsplitter to viewing tube section can be removed from the deviating prism section, with a few screws leaving a flange mount. Lomo made one with 30mm eyetubes separate from the deviating prism, with a dovetailed entry port that would easily convert to a T2. I think it has double eyetube focusers too. Those should be available fairly cheaply.
Thanks, you are correct the one I have linked in my previous post is not all prisms and no mirror. here https://astromart.com/images/classified ... 2687-1.jpg is the head which has a cube beam splitter and rest are mirrors. It doesn’t have the model number though, I am looking for something similar either used on eBay or new.
Compound
Standard 14/15/18 (not sure) | Illuminator 100 with 12V PS| Trinocular tube
PH Condenser Ph2,3, BF, DF | 6.3x Plan, 16x,25x, 40x,100x(Oil),Neofular Ph2 & Ph3, 40x PlanAPO Iris | 10x Eyepiece

apochronaut
Posts: 2730
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am

Re: Microscope Binohead for telescopes & with mirrors

#9 Post by apochronaut » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:20 pm

I had a look at the binoviewers available through Astromart and on ebay and have a few comments.
Firstly, a lot of the second hand ones are using standard 23mm microscope eyepiece tubes, which limits the f.o.v. you can get obviously, especially with long focal length eyepieces. One, was even listed as having Leica eyepieces. They are actually American Optical microscope eyepieces, rebranded as Leica after a large merger of companies about 30 years ago.
In the 30mm types, there seem to be a number of them made in China for Celestron and other companies. Have these been deemed unsuitable or have a bad reputation? Perhaps they are prism types?
Here is one Lomo 30mm head, similar to the one I mentioned above , on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOMO-Microscop ... SwXYtYsv-X. I do not know if Lomo used mirrors or prisms for the final pathway. The seller is quite knowledegable, so might be able to help.

pdxhiker
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Microscope Binohead for telescopes & with mirrors

#10 Post by pdxhiker » Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:15 pm

apochronaut wrote:I had a look at the binoviewers available through Astromart and on ebay and have a few comments.
Firstly, a lot of the second hand ones are using standard 23mm microscope eyepiece tubes, which limits the f.o.v. you can get obviously, especially with long focal length eyepieces. One, was even listed as having Leica eyepieces. They are actually American Optical microscope eyepieces, rebranded as Leica after a large merger of companies about 30 years ago.
In the 30mm types, there seem to be a number of them made in China for Celestron and other companies. Have these been deemed unsuitable or have a bad reputation? Perhaps they are prism types?
Here is one Lomo 30mm head, similar to the one I mentioned above , on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOMO-Microscop ... SwXYtYsv-X. I do not know if Lomo used mirrors or prisms for the final pathway. The seller is quite knowledegable, so might be able to help.
thank you, I contacted Zeiss directly and they said model 425522-9000-000 is something they have which uses mirrors. I will also checkout the LOMO link.
Compound
Standard 14/15/18 (not sure) | Illuminator 100 with 12V PS| Trinocular tube
PH Condenser Ph2,3, BF, DF | 6.3x Plan, 16x,25x, 40x,100x(Oil),Neofular Ph2 & Ph3, 40x PlanAPO Iris | 10x Eyepiece

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