Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

Here you can discuss all microscopy-related accessories and equipment (microtomes, filters...)
Post Reply
Message
Author
arbarus
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:23 am

Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#1 Post by arbarus » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:48 am

Hi
My first post so hoping someone can help me with some information.

I'm using an old Leica MZ6 stereo made up from

MZ6 optics carrier 10 445 614
MZ6 Tubes 10 445 619

to which I am hoping to add a drawing tube / drawing device. The Leica brand ones are prohibitively pricey (and hard to source) & I have been told that the motic K700 microscope is made to the same design as the Leica MZ series and that their drawing device 1508.3 (sp990029) is compatible.
Unfortunately I have now been in touch with MOTIC but they cannot confirm that the device would be compatible without actually testing it on my microscope and they cannot supply a spec or drawing of the fittings and dimensions.
I hope someone on this forum may have experience of using Leica MZ accessories (ie photo tube 404891) on a MOTIC k700 or vice-versa.
I've attached a rough sketch of the dimensions of the Leica dovetail in case anyone is able to measure and post the MOTIC sizes as a start point.
many thanks in advance
Richard
Attachments
MZ6 FITTING DIMENSIONS eml.pdf
Sketch of Leica MZ dovetail fitting
(571.29 KiB) Downloaded 263 times

User avatar
75RR
Posts: 7291
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:34 am
Location: Estepona, Spain

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#2 Post by 75RR » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:52 pm

Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)

Scarodactyl
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#3 Post by Scarodactyl » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:36 pm

I believe the motic K series are Wild M5 clones. The M5 is not compatible with the later Wild M3 series from which the MZs are descended. The M5's optical paths are much further apart from one another.
There is an apparent MZ75 clone out there, not by Motic.
https://m.alibaba.com/product/607048766 ... -zoom.html
No drawing attachmwnt available for it, but there is a trinocular head. I have a used one on its way in which I am planning to examine and see if the parts are compatible and/or any good. So stay tuned for that.

arbarus
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:23 am

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#4 Post by arbarus » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:07 am

Hi 75RR & Scarodactyl

Thank you for your replies. It was Martin Microscopes who had suggested the motic 1508.3 but I can't order from them due to UK shipping and import almost trebling the costs. I have been in touch with Motic and they can't confirm computability (which seems at odds with Martin Microscopes advice) and if I buy they won't accept a return if it doesn't work.

I have found info suggesting that the Motic K CMO stereos are compatible with the Leica MS/ MZ / M series but other info seems to suggest that the K series varies in build depending on model so I am a little confused.

I have used an M5 a while back and was told it has 'the best' stereo separation so what you say makes complete sense and reinforces that I should try to define what works before buying. I have an old Wild MZ5 and it is 'the same' as the Leica MZ (other than the zoom system) so guess it is from when they rebranded.

I'm going to continue my researching / banging my head and will await news of the MZ clone with interest - it looks very much like a direct copy from the shape.

Once again thank yo for the help and I'll post again if I discover anything new.

cheers

Richard

Scarodactyl
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#5 Post by Scarodactyl » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:44 am

Yeah, I did a bit more searching and found at least one reference to that on Martin, though it isn't something I've seen directly. Some of the K series are definitely M5 clones, but it would make sense for them to want to make one that's compatible with the series that's still in major use/production. My intel on it is all pretty old. As I understand it they got the M5 plans from Wild in some sort of deal (the details of which vary depending on which forums post you read), but there's no reason they coulsn't have retooled it directly for compatibility or reverse engineered an M3.

User avatar
75RR
Posts: 7291
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:34 am
Location: Estepona, Spain

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#6 Post by 75RR » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:58 pm

This is the blurb from this link at Martin Microscopes https://www.martinmicroscope.com/produc ... ld-m5-m5a/
This is a copy of the original Wild drawing tube, but functions similarly. It attaches between the head and the optics carrier, and when engaged, will superimpose the image from the drawing surface to the microscope eyepiece allowing for tracing of the specimen. This product is made by Motic China, but modified and inspected by Martin Microscope to correctly fit the Wild M5 and M5A stereomicroscopes.
It would be interesting to know what 'Modified' actually entailed ...
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)

MichaelG.
Posts: 2383
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:24 am
Location: NorthWest England

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#7 Post by MichaelG. » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:49 pm

75RR wrote:It would be interesting to know what 'Modified' actually entailed ...
It would indeed ...

Also available [presumably unmodified] here:
http://www.buntgrp.com/accessories.htm

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

User avatar
iconoclastica
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:43 pm

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#8 Post by iconoclastica » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:06 pm

I have an old Wild MZ5 and it is 'the same' as the Leica MZ (other than the zoom system) so guess it is from when they rebranded.
I am actually using a black Wild photothube on an MZ7.5. As far as I am any judge, only style and colour don't match.

Scarodactyl
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#9 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:21 am

I think the M series has maintained partial compatibility since the M3 (not sure about the M4 or the M7a, but certainly the M3, M8 and M10). The M5 was their first stereo scope(1958!), but it was still well-liked. It makes sense that there would have been interest in continuing the line with Chinese production. Objective sizes have changed of course but the heads are apparently compatible, and photo tubes likely are as well because of that.

Side-note, the MZ75 clone/copy came in, but unfortunately it's so far out of alignment (head and body both) that I can't do much testing on it. The dovetail is the same and the space between the ocular paths are the same though. The objective is large but it has an M62x1 (????) thread, so that certainly isn't compatible (with anything) without an adapter. I'll make a full thread for it later, but I need to get a good copy to get a sense if it's actually any good.

User avatar
iconoclastica
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:43 pm

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#10 Post by iconoclastica » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:39 am

How do you do that, making a thread in such large diameters? I tried a while to do it for the M50x1 of the Mz7.5 objective, but I wasn't succesful.

Scarodactyl
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#11 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:25 pm

When I said I'd make a thread I meant a forum thread. For adapters I just have Raf do it.

arbarus
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:23 am

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#12 Post by arbarus » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:05 pm

hi All

Thank you for all the info and suggestions. I've got no further with my research apart from a few suggestions that it 'should' work... Seems that the Motics are a copy of the Wild as someone else mentioned that they had bought the design.

Think I'm going to bite the bullet and order the drawing tube (in the hopes that it fits and that if it doesn;t I can sell it on once I have the spec).

It will take a few months to arrive apparently but I will post the outcome once it does.
iconoclastica wrote:
I have an old Wild MZ5 and it is 'the same' as the Leica MZ (other than the zoom system) so guess it is from when they rebranded.
I am actually using a black Wild photothube on an MZ7.5. As far as I am any judge, only style and colour don't match.
I've got a black phototube that I thought was a Leica but guess it may be a Wild, it works on the Wild MZ8 and Leica MZ6 so as expected they are compatible (unless you are worried about the aesthetics on your desk).
I wonder if the modified vs unmodified has something to do with the two Motic drawing devices that are available.


Scarodactyl wrote:
Side-note, the MZ75 clone/copy came in, but unfortunately it's so far out of alignment (head and body both) that I can't do much testing on it. The dovetail is the same and the space between the ocular paths are the same though. The objective is large but it has an M62x1 (????) thread, so that certainly isn't compatible (with anything) without an adapter. I'll make a full thread for it later, but I need to get a good copy to get a sense if it's actually any good.

Sorry to hear the clone was no good, hope it is fixable. If the dovetail ocular paths are the same then I guess it is a direct copy- other than the M62 thread - sounds like an SLR thread?

Thank you again for the help
cheers
Richard

Scarodactyl
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#13 Post by Scarodactyl » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:18 pm

I've poked at the motic site some. The k400 is definitely an m5 clone. The k500 is specced and has an external look like an M3, so I'd guess that it is mz-compatible. The m700 looks like an m7a or similar. Just make sure 5ou get the k400 accessory.

Scarodactyl
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#14 Post by Scarodactyl » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:33 am

Here's a cheap motic k500 that just came up. I just can't justify picking it up but someone should.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3201897179

MichaelG.
Posts: 2383
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:24 am
Location: NorthWest England

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#15 Post by MichaelG. » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:46 am

Scarodactyl wrote:Here's a cheap motic k500 that just came up. ...
"Interesting" that is being listed under the well-respected name of Mitutoyo
... is theirs a re-branded Motic, or is this a typo ?

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

MicroBob
Posts: 2194
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:11 am
Location: Northern Germany

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#16 Post by MicroBob » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:14 am

Hi Richard,
I can't help you with your problem but I would like to hear and see more about what you do with the drawing attatchment.
With our microscopy group we one had a meeting about drawing radiolaria with drawing attatchments and I liked it very much.
It is probably not used much today but can give excellent results with the right microscopist at the end of the pencil.
I just came to a Zeiss Standard drawing attatchment but haven't used it yet. It is a great piece of optics and was extremely expensive when new.
We made the experience that the right mix of microscope light and room light is important.

Bob

Scarodactyl
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#17 Post by Scarodactyl » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:33 am

MichaelG. wrote:
Scarodactyl wrote:Here's a cheap motic k500 that just came up. ...
"Interesting" that is being listed under the well-respected name of Mitutoyo
... is theirs a re-branded Motic, or is this a typo ?

MichaelG.
It could either be they put a motic scope on a mitutoyo base (the base does have mitutoyo written on it) or mitutoyo might sell them under their name. Either way it's definitely a motic made scope.
Edit: yeah, Mitutoyo resells k series motics as many do https://ecatalog.mitutoyo.com/Stereo-Mi ... C1425.aspx

MichaelG.
Posts: 2383
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:24 am
Location: NorthWest England

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#18 Post by MichaelG. » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:01 pm

Scarodactyl wrote:It could either be they put a motic scope on a mitutoyo base (the base does have mitutoyo written on it) or mitutoyo might sell them under their name. Either way it's definitely a motic made scope.
Edit: yeah, Mitutoyo resells k series motics as many do https://ecatalog.mitutoyo.com/Stereo-Mi ... C1425.aspx
Thanks for the confirmation
I was aware that Mitutoyo sold microscopes, but not aware that they used Motic as the OEM ... it seems like a good endorsement for Motic.

I wonder if there is any special QA on the Mitutoyo stereos, or is it just a 'badge engineering' job ?

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

jfiresto
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:19 am
Location: Northern Germany

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#19 Post by jfiresto » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:25 pm

Scarodactyl wrote:I think the M series has maintained partial compatibility since the M3 (not sure about the M4 or the M7a, but certainly the M3, M8 and M10)....
You can add the M7A/M7S to the list. The M5's are the different ones.
Last edited by jfiresto on Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-John

jfiresto
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:19 am
Location: Northern Germany

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#20 Post by jfiresto » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:30 pm

arbarus wrote:...I've got a black phototube that I thought was a Leica but guess it may be a Wild, it works on the Wild MZ8 and Leica MZ6 so as expected they are compatible (unless you are worried about the aesthetics on your desk)....
Could you post a picture? I may recognize it. If the photo tube is unmarked, it is probably Motic.

I believe the Motic K700 is an M7 spin off.
-John

Scarodactyl
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#21 Post by Scarodactyl » Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:07 am

Someone has got to get that k500 before I make a financially unwise decision...
I habe not seen any of the motic k series in black, though I'd like to.

jfiresto
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:19 am
Location: Northern Germany

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#22 Post by jfiresto » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:20 am

Try to resist and hold out for a nice Wild. This may not be a long term strategy as eventually you will find one. :)
-John

Scarodactyl
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#23 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:00 am

I already have an original M3 which makes it even dumber. I am mostly curious about the comparison between the two, though it wouldn't be very fair to put up the original m3 given the improvements to later models. Either way I should do the nikon clone vs nikon comparion which I have been meaning to get to first.

Scarodactyl
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

Re: Using Motic K700 accessories on Leica MZ6 specifically Stereo Microscope Drawing Device

#24 Post by Scarodactyl » Thu May 16, 2019 10:51 pm

I got my hands on a Motic k500 head inexpensively. It is styled a little bit differently, but is otherwise an obvious clone of an M3 head. The only design difference I spot from my original M3 is that the oculars have set screws to hold the eyepieces firmly in place (the eyepieces are also kind of loose without them so that makes sense).
Image
Image
From just opening and looking at it, it seems like a credible copy. Much, much closer than the other mz75 clone I have (which is much more different, and seems almost more to be aping the style than copying the design--someday I'll get around to making a thread about that...).

Post Reply