Market Warnings.

Have a problem finding shops that sell specific materials? Ask here. Are you looking for microscope parts? Do you have anything to offer for sale? Note: this is not a section for external companies to advertise their products.
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apochronaut
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Market Warnings.

#1 Post by apochronaut » Wed May 25, 2016 10:39 pm

This is awful but possibly, necessary. Every one of us has bought a microscope or some components of a microscope at one time or another, except a few , who have inherited their stand. I have probably bought more than most of you have , so I have encountered good and bad on that road. Is it worth warning other members about lousy companies or sellers, or is that just too negative for this forum? I start from the position that everyone has a purpose for a sale. That can mismatch with the purpose for the purchase but I always feel that the seller has an obligation to try to match their product to the customer's requirements, as much as possible, not just grab the cash and run. There are of course, some unscrupulous sellers. what do you think?

JimT
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Re: Market Warnings.

#2 Post by JimT » Wed May 25, 2016 10:45 pm

You would have to name names but not a good idea on a public forum. Make yourself available thru PM's to advise people who ask for advice on a particular scope you have knowledge of.

My best advice.

JimT

apochronaut
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Re: Market Warnings.

#3 Post by apochronaut » Wed May 25, 2016 11:14 pm

I considered that but a lot of the names would be seller usernames on sites etc. The other side of that is ; naming names is only slanderous , if the person didn't do anything wrong. If they did, then what harm is there in pointing that out. p.m.'ing really only works if there is prior knowledge of a purchase taking place. My concern is to make the possibility of a purchaser being vulnerable to a seller with a spotty record, less likely.

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zzffnn
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Re: Market Warnings.

#4 Post by zzffnn » Thu May 26, 2016 12:20 am

At the other forum, members name names without asking all the time. I don't see too much problem with that. Everyone has a different opinion and view point. Listeners should pick and choose to believe or not believe themselves.

Apo, for your own legal protection, it is best not to state something as black-and-white fact, even though it is. Always add "your experience may vary, I am just sharing my biased personal view point" in the end of a comment, if you want to be extra careful.

Personally, I always want to hear your comments. Edit: I will welcome your email too, if you prefer to name names that way. No explanation is needed, I trust you. That seller will just be marked off my list.
Last edited by zzffnn on Thu May 26, 2016 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gekko
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Re: Market Warnings.

#5 Post by gekko » Thu May 26, 2016 11:09 am

My 2 cents' worth (perhaps I should even say 1 cent's worth): I rely partially on the feedback of the seller (and read any negative comments), as I'm sure we all do. I also make sure that the seller accepts returns for expensive items. In my experience, most sellers are very eager to please the buyer as they dread negative reviews. Also, Ebay will cover cases where the description was not appropriate regardless of whether the seller accepts returns. Perhaps Oliver may want to offer his view on the subject, as any possible legal repercussions may impinge on him too.

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75RR
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Re: Market Warnings.

#6 Post by 75RR » Thu May 26, 2016 12:25 pm

Perhaps Oliver may want to offer his view on the subject, as any possible legal repercussions may impinge on him too.
Very good point. We forget sometimes that it is not actually our site! We are visitors.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)

apochronaut
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Re: Market Warnings.

#7 Post by apochronaut » Thu May 26, 2016 1:07 pm

I was thinking in terms of just a simple running file of sellers to be wary of, with a note as to who posted the file. No other comments. If someone wanted further info. privately, then they could p.m.
It could go the other way too, with positives, as well.

Posting warnings and experiences can get pretty messy but it seems completely normal on some other sites about various subjects. Musical instrument sites are dreadful that way.

Charles
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Re: Market Warnings.

#8 Post by Charles » Thu May 26, 2016 5:14 pm

IMO, I don't think a running list is needed or appropriate. I think one of the boards had a problem where a seller thought it was slanderous and threatened legal action. Whenever one buys things sight unseen, except for what is pictured and the description, they are at risk. If someone is looking for an item and wants to buy it, they need to ask all the questions up front, look at the return policy and then ask themselves if it is worth it. Good communications with a seller is key even after a purchase. Most sellers will go out of their way to make things right. There are a few who won't even answer your questions, those I tend to stay away from...unless it looks like a great bargain. Feedback will give you a lot of information but sometimes not all feedback is entirely accurate. When buying things over the Internet, one just have to weigh the risk against the rewards.

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Oliver
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Re: Market Warnings.

#9 Post by Oliver » Thu May 26, 2016 8:47 pm

Hello,

No public complaints about companies or products! There are legal consequences relating to libel. If you say, for example, that you do not like the color of microscope X, then you are not saying anything wrong about the product. It is your opinion. If you say, however, that seller Y charges too high prices, then this is not opinion anymore. You have to prove it that it is really the case, otherwise you are spreading false information about a company and are therefore liable. Often users do not know if it is opinion or fact and therefore in court cases there are sometimes fight about the wording.

To give an example (a real case that I read about in a magazine, which warned customers): There was a person who bought a product, which turned out to be defective. He returned it to the company and got a confirmation mail that the product was received for replacement/repair. The company did not send a replacement/repair for months, and also did not respond to the mails of the customer. The customer, frustrated, then posted a public comment stating that the "company does not respond". The customer was sued by the company, for spreading false information, because the company did respond, it sent a confirmation mail at the beginning. The company won the case and the customer had to pay for the company's losses.

If you find objectionable posts, please report them to me, and if you have posted problematic things, then please edit your posts.

greetings,
Oliver.
Image Oliver Kim - http://www.microbehunter.com - Microscopes: Olympus CH40 - Olympus CH-A - Breukhoven BMS student microscope - Euromex stereo - uSCOPE MXII

apochronaut
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Re: Market Warnings.

#10 Post by apochronaut » Thu May 26, 2016 9:48 pm

I did not suggest a public complaint. Did you even read my post? I suggested a warning list, no other information supplied. There is absolutely nothing libelous about that. If I have a problem with a supplier, and feel it is a good idea to let others know to beware of that supplier, surely a warning about that supplier is on me, not you ......not to mention the fact that you are in Austria! Now, I know, I know, ebay sellers( 90% of them are from the U.S.) have a long history of sueing people who manage forums in Austria, for slander. It's a big risk. Joeebay, who sells 125 items a year is definitely going to track you down because your forum implied he was bad. I would also recommend that you watch out for getting beaned by a meteor from July 17 to Aug. 24 because the the Perseids are coming!

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75RR
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Re: Market Warnings.

#11 Post by 75RR » Thu May 26, 2016 10:12 pm

There is a border between you and most ebay sellers "90% of them are from the U.S."
If you feel strongly enough you can start a WordPress web page called Good and not so Good Ebay sellers and see how it goes.
I will visit.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)

apochronaut
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Re: Market Warnings.

#12 Post by apochronaut » Thu May 26, 2016 11:31 pm

75RR wrote:There is a border between you and most ebay sellers "90% of them are from the U.S."
If you feel strongly enough you can start a WordPress web page called Good and not so Good Ebay sellers and see how it goes.
I will visit.
i don't feel that strongly about it. I just posited an idea. However, avoiding the issue, due to an irrational fear of lawsuits, , which is not very likely across borders, not to mention continents, wasn't where I figured this would go. I was thinking more along ethical lines , as a legitimate obstacle.

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Oliver
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Re: Market Warnings.

#13 Post by Oliver » Fri May 27, 2016 6:40 pm

Hello,

yeah, I am a bit paranoid about legal issues, probably also because about too many negative stories that I heard, but I admit, that this might also be cherry picking the negatives on my side. In any case:

I have a suggestion or idea and would like to hear your opinion. What about a positive list of suppliers (including maybe a short description of stuff that they sell), suppliers, that have good ebay rating or recommendations by forum members? I think that this would be quite useful for forum members, who want to shop for specific products. This could even be extended, and sellers can briefly present themselves, and I put a link to their online shop. Descriptions might also include products that they are specialized in, etc. If there are repeated problems with some of them, then I can always take them off again. So the sellers have incentives to improve and users see a shortlist of reliable sellers, that they can visit directly. I could also do something similar with the amazon shop that I have on the website, and include a section with recommended amazon sellers.

Oliver.
Image Oliver Kim - http://www.microbehunter.com - Microscopes: Olympus CH40 - Olympus CH-A - Breukhoven BMS student microscope - Euromex stereo - uSCOPE MXII

billbillt
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Re: Market Warnings.

#14 Post by billbillt » Fri May 27, 2016 6:42 pm

I think this is a great idea.. A list of positive sellers can do no harm, and would provide folks with somewhat safe people to purchase from..

BillT

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