TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

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apochronaut
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#61 Post by apochronaut » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:47 pm

That sounds like the 40x and 100x objectives might need better cleaning or even have some unseen damage. I noticed in the picture that they looked fairly dirty. Have you examined the front elements of those two, with a stereo microscope or even with a reversed eyepiece?..... Also, that optical system requires eyepieces corrected for an infinity optical tube. Are you testing the AO system with the eyepieces from the Seiwa microscope?

stjepo
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#62 Post by stjepo » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:03 am

apochronaut wrote:That sounds like the 40x and 100x objectives might need better cleaning or even have some unseen damage. I noticed in the picture that they looked fairly dirty. Have you examined the front elements of those two, with a stereo microscope or even with a reversed eyepiece?..... Also, that optical system requires eyepieces corrected for an infinity optical tube. Are you testing the AO system with the eyepieces from the Seiwa microscope?
Looking through a stereo microscope 4X both show signs of rust(?¿) in the metal front, but the lenses looks clean. I was able to clean the 40X and I can not see any visible damage. I have cleaned the 100X only externally as I can not open the back of it. Someone did and made scratches in the metal. Both lenses of this objective (back and front) look in good shape.

My test is only visual through the eye pieces of each microscopes using their own objectives in their own heads. FiniteAchro (?¿) objectives in Seiwa microscope and Plan Achro Infinite in AO Spencer.

apochronaut
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#63 Post by apochronaut » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:21 pm

What does it have stamped on the eyepieces that you are using to evaluate the AO planachro objectives?

stjepo
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#64 Post by stjepo » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:40 pm

apochronaut wrote:What does it have stamped on the eyepieces that you are using to evaluate the AO planachro objectives?
I don't understand your question...

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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#65 Post by stjepo » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:41 pm

stjepo wrote:
apochronaut wrote:What does it have stamped on the eyepieces that you are using to evaluate the AO planachro objectives?
I don't understand your question...
Do you want to suggest a way to do it?

apochronaut
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#66 Post by apochronaut » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:59 pm

Eyepieces have specifications written on them. Sometimes there is a cat.#, that you can reference back to the specifications. It is usually stamped somewhere on the barrel. What is stamped on the eyepieces that you are using to evaluate the AO objectives with?

stjepo
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#67 Post by stjepo » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:02 pm

apochronaut wrote:Eyepieces have specifications written on them. Sometimes there is a cat.#, that you can reference back to the specifications. It is usually stamped somewhere on the barrel. What is stamped on the eyepieces that you are using to evaluate the AO objectives with?
A) PLAN|ACHRO ∞ 100/1.25 OIL CAT. 1024 AUSTRIA
B) PLAN|ACHRO ∞ 40/ .66 CAT. 1023 USA
C) PLAN|ACHRO ∞ 10/ .25 CAT. 1019 USA
D) PLAN|ACHRO ∞ 4/ .12 CAT. 1017 USA

apochronaut
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#68 Post by apochronaut » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:17 am

Those are the objectives. I asked about the eyepieces.

stjepo
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#69 Post by stjepo » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:40 pm

HWF10X

apochronaut
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#70 Post by apochronaut » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:14 pm

You are using the wrong eyepieces for the AO objectives. You might as well put tractor tires on a Porsche Spyder and then declare that the handling isn't so great after all!
Eyepieces are more often than not critically matched to the characteristics of the optical tube below them. In the case of that series of AO objectives and that head, the possibilities are AO cat.# 146,176,176A and 177. 176 are quite common and the best choice. You might also be able to use B & L eyepieces from the Flat Field or later series of microscopes and more than likely others but that becomes a crap shoot. Best to use the eyepieces critically engineered to provide the optimum corrections for the optics involved.
I think it best that you do some reading about your instrument in order to properly set it up for it's peak performance.

stjepo
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#71 Post by stjepo » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:16 pm

apochronaut wrote:You are using the wrong eyepieces for the AO objectives. You might as well put tractor tires on a Porsche Spyder and then declare that the handling isn't so great after all!
Eyepieces are more often than not critically matched to the characteristics of the optical tube below them. In the case of that series of AO objectives and that head, the possibilities are AO cat.# 146,176,176A and 177. 176 are quite common and the best choice. You might also be able to use B & L eyepieces from the Flat Field or later series of microscopes and more than likely others but that becomes a crap shoot. Best to use the eyepieces critically engineered to provide the optimum corrections for the optics involved.
I think it best that you do some reading about your instrument in order to properly set it up for it's peak performance.

I forgot to read the manual that came with the microscope

"Eyepieces are quite forgiving can be used interchangeably on 160mm TL and Infinity corrected scopes with good results for instance, or often, between scopes of different makers. A very practical, simple introduction to microscope eyepieces can be found here. But don't miss reading the sections at the Olympus Resource Site and the Nikon's Microscopy Site. Eyepieces designed for telescopes must meet differing needs than those for microscopes, but even so, a very interesting piece is found here.

*Note: The 'purist' in me wants to note that the very best, optimum results will be obtained by using the eyepieces specifically made for each objective set (e.g. a Cat# 146 10x eyepiece on a 160mm TL Series 2 scope, a Cat# 176 10X eyepiece on an infinitely corrected Series 10 scope, etc.) -- but the 'practical side' of me says it really, truly doesn't make a heck of a lot of difference -- use what you have. But if you are wondering what the differences might be between different brands of eyepieces, Mervhob of Yahoo's Microscope Group has furnished the useful information below (also see Mikrofibel page 55)"

Where do you get the screws for this microscope?

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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#72 Post by apochronaut » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:21 pm

That's totally up to you , if you want to use mal-corrected eyepieces instead of those properly corrected for that optical system. Just don't expect it to perform properly.
Huygens eyepieces seem reasonably good across a broad range of optical systems, so yes with simple not great eyepieces they can be employed in many systems but their very narrow field and the fact that many users of such eyepieces are not that discriminating means that they can end up having peripheral distortion of one kind or another with some optics, which some users either think is normal, the result of inferior objectives or they don't even notice.
Wide field eyepieces , especially those corrected for plan, fixed tube systems, often have corrections built into them that makes them purpose built for a specific family of objectives. They need to counteract the increasing distortion and aberrations towards the extremities of the field. Infinity systems, the first generation AO for example had corrections occur mostly in the tube lens, so the eyepieces ended up doing very little but needing to conform to what the tube lens is passing on. I have tested quite a few other eyepieces on the 10, and really have not found too many others that give adequate colour correction to the periphery. Eyepieces marked HKW 10X don't.

You know, you really should have sent that microscope back. I think it is dragging you down. I sent you a link with tons and tons of info. on that scope , manuals upon manuals, so your quip about not reading the manual that came with the scope is just stupid, to say the least. You are apparently displeased with it and seem unwilling to follow the correct protocol with which to get it up to it's precise operating potential. I do feel partially responsible for you having it and have stuck with you , offering advice, sometimes against a wall of stubborness. I'm going to bow out now. The Neeley site has most of what you need. You need to attend to the info. Most of what you need is there. You don't believe what I say anyway. If I told you where to find screws, you would probably dispute that.
Here is another link. http://www.science-info.net/docs/ bye.

stjepo
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#73 Post by stjepo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:17 am

apochronaut wrote:That's totally up to you , if you want to use mal-corrected eyepieces instead of those properly corrected for that optical system. Just don't expect it to perform properly.
Huygens eyepieces seem reasonably good across a broad range of optical systems, so yes with simple not great eyepieces they can be employed in many systems but their very narrow field and the fact that many users of such eyepieces are not that discriminating means that they can end up having peripheral distortion of one kind or another with some optics, which some users either think is normal, the result of inferior objectives or they don't even notice.
Wide field eyepieces , especially those corrected for plan, fixed tube systems, often have corrections built into them that makes them purpose built for a specific family of objectives. They need to counteract the increasing distortion and aberrations towards the extremities of the field. Infinity systems, the first generation AO for example had corrections occur mostly in the tube lens, so the eyepieces ended up doing very little but needing to conform to what the tube lens is passing on. I have tested quite a few other eyepieces on the 10, and really have not found too many others that give adequate colour correction to the periphery. Eyepieces marked HKW 10X don't.

You know, you really should have sent that microscope back. I think it is dragging you down. I sent you a link with tons and tons of info. on that scope , manuals upon manuals, so your quip about not reading the manual that came with the scope is just stupid, to say the least. You are apparently displeased with it and seem unwilling to follow the correct protocol with which to get it up to it's precise operating potential. I do feel partially responsible for you having it and have stuck with you , offering advice, sometimes against a wall of stubborness. I'm going to bow out now. The Neeley site has most of what you need. You need to attend to the info. Most of what you need is there. You don't believe what I say anyway. If I told you where to find screws, you would probably dispute that.
Here is another link. http://www.science-info.net/docs/ bye.
You can do whatever you want, I will always be grateful for all the advice you have given me. I do not understand the aggressiveness with which you have treated me and that each moment has gone in crescendo.

If everything is because of my initial (wrong) comment about the 'wonderful' AO microscopes, I think you should reconsider. It was an innocent comment based, as you said, on my 'ignorance'.

Is not true that: " You don't believe what I say anyway." I followed every advice you gave me. I have read all your links.

You do not have to blame yourself for anything, I never did blame you. We are old enough to be responsible for our own mistakes. This is may mistake.

I have always offered you my friendly hand. I Always answered you correctly, even I have apologized unnecessarily for my comment. Also I asked you politely to stop your insults. But they did not stop, they grew more and more until your last brilliant final speech, facing your audience.

"offering advice, sometimes against a wall of stubborness."

"so your quip about not reading the manual that came with the scope is just stupid, to say the least." (There was no manual, I wanted to make smile :D )


It seems to me that you enjoy more insulting and highlighting the ignorance of the people about the 'wonderful' AO microscopes than giving them friendly advice.

Is quite obvious you dislike me, I'm sorry, I can not solve that.

When have I disputed you anything? "If I told you where to find screws, you would probably dispute that." all that is in your mind.

I have not wanted to return your insults, it is not my style, I thank you for your advice and I will say that for me you are an authority on the AO microscopes in this forum and maybe on the whole planet, but you know, I'm just an ignorant in this matter.

Forgot to say that I am trying to buy eyepieces " AO cat.# 146,176,176A and 177. 176" as you adviced me.


Thanks for the last link.

stjepo
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#74 Post by stjepo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:01 am

stjepo wrote:
apochronaut wrote:You are using the wrong eyepieces for the AO objectives. You might as well put tractor tires on a Porsche Spyder and then declare that the handling isn't so great after all!
Eyepieces are more often than not critically matched to the characteristics of the optical tube below them. In the case of that series of AO objectives and that head, the possibilities are AO cat.# 146,176,176A and 177. 176 are quite common and the best choice. You might also be able to use B & L eyepieces from the Flat Field or later series of microscopes and more than likely others but that becomes a crap shoot. Best to use the eyepieces critically engineered to provide the optimum corrections for the optics involved.
I think it best that you do some reading about your instrument in order to properly set it up for it's peak performance.

I forgot to read the manual that came with the microscope

"Eyepieces are quite forgiving can be used interchangeably on 160mm TL and Infinity corrected scopes with good results for instance, or often, between scopes of different makers. A very practical, simple introduction to microscope eyepieces can be found here. But don't miss reading the sections at the Olympus Resource Site and the Nikon's Microscopy Site. Eyepieces designed for telescopes must meet differing needs than those for microscopes, but even so, a very interesting piece is found here.

*Note: The 'purist' in me wants to note that the very best, optimum results will be obtained by using the eyepieces specifically made for each objective set (e.g. a Cat# 146 10x eyepiece on a 160mm TL Series 2 scope, a Cat# 176 10X eyepiece on an infinitely corrected Series 10 scope, etc.) -- but the 'practical side' of me says it really, truly doesn't make a heck of a lot of difference -- use what you have. But if you are wondering what the differences might be between different brands of eyepieces, Mervhob of Yahoo's Microscope Group has furnished the useful information below (also see Mikrofibel page 55)"

Where do you get the screws for this microscope?
I forgot to put the link of this quote: https://user.xmission.com/~psneeley/Per ... pieces.htm

stjepo
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#75 Post by stjepo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:50 pm

I got a pair of 10X W.F. CAT. 176... comes with a trinocular head included...

Regards

MichaelG.
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#76 Post by MichaelG. » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:39 pm

stjepo wrote:I got a pair of 10X W.F. CAT. 176... comes with a trinocular head included...
Hopefully, you're all set now, to road-test those objectives.

Do please let us know your assessment.

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

stjepo
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#77 Post by stjepo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:33 pm

MichaelG. wrote:
stjepo wrote:I got a pair of 10X W.F. CAT. 176... comes with a trinocular head included...
Hopefully, you're all set now, to road-test those objectives.

Do please let us know your assessment.

MichaelG.

I will do it. I will follow all the apochronaut advices and read as much as I can about the AO Micro. Will arrive in a week.

Also I hope I will be able to find the place I can get some screws for this Micro, the ones that are sold in Spain do not match some of them.

Thanks for your answer Michel.

stjepo
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#78 Post by stjepo » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:03 am

Does anyone knows where is the serial number of the AO Micro?

I have found the number 959753 in the right side of the top of the AO Micro but I can not relate it to the tables of serial numbers published by Reichert.


Regards

stjepo
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#79 Post by stjepo » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:20 am

In 2007 I was to busy to start trying to make pictures with a microscope. The first time I tried I didn't get too much help only some jokes about my "ignorance". I was to forget it but suddenly I received the following advice from a person I admire:

"First of all, don't let anyone discourage you! Microscopy is too enjoyable!

There are obviously two skills that need to work together... microscopy and photography. I have no way of knowing how much experience you have with either discipline, so this first email may be too "simple" or too "detailed". Once I get some idea of your experience level, I could offer better advice. So let me know and ask questions! Also, your English seems excellent, but let me know if I am writing clearly enough."

Charles Krebs

11 years later now I am able to dedicate more time to this hobby (less programming, less electronics and no more building houses).

It may be "dragging me down" but I will keep trying.



Regards

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75RR
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#80 Post by 75RR » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:32 am

Indeed, he is a most accomplished through the microscope photographer.

I find his work very inspiring and his pdfs on how to set up a camera extremely helpful.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=882

Nice that you have found some time for microscopy. Do keep us informed of your adventures.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)

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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#81 Post by stjepo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:59 pm

It looks nicer...

Now I need to find where to get the screws and how to synchronize the arm to make go up and down without it getting stack when down.

Regards
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Hobbyst46
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#82 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:06 pm

Impressive restoration. Would you disclose the details, how you did it?

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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#83 Post by stjepo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:50 am

Sorry the delay.

I went to a car painting workshop of friend of mine. They polished the old paint that had the stage and the finger (fixed and sliding parts) with a wet sandpaper grade 8000. All paint came easily. Also they were able to polish some of the scratches but the deepest they couldn't. After that cleaned all dust and grease with a dissolvent. First they spayed with a base coat that filled some of the scratches, allowed it to dry. After that a dry sandpaper grade 8000 was used to smooth the surface. Cleaned all dust and painted it with the current color (The color they had available).

I think that the paint is working well in the aluminium surface pieces but I am not too sure in the metal of the finger that is not aluminium. I will let you know. :?

Apart from that I was able to fix the arm (took me a long time to figure out this, no clear instructions) getting stacked when in the lowest position adjusting the lever and the worm using the Setscrew X-20648.

I managed to take out the bulb light ... but now I am not able to put it back (instructions say is simple and show a #1036-856 tool) Help will be appreciated. :roll: :oops: Also to find out where to get screws for this microscope!!!

Now I am working out how to change the light to a strong led. First try, I burned my fingers. :D Now no bulb and no led... :|

Now I need a turner to make the Vertical Eyepiece Tube...

Please take into account that I am an 'ignorant' about microscopes.

Regards
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Hobbyst46
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#84 Post by Hobbyst46 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:17 am

You are making nice progress IMHO!
A 20W LED fed from two power supply was anyway not optimal for your purpose. A single die 10W LED can do just fine. Moreover, previous posts on this forum show that even a 3W LED can do. But it also depends on the distance of the LED from the optical components, and especially for lower magnifications and darkfield or oblique you will want intense light, as described by Apochronaut in a previous post about darkfield.

BTW I just found a LED conversion project for AO series 10: looks like he was happy with a 3W LED.
https://user.xmission.com/~psneeley/Per ... _Series_10

I would try copy the conversion done by others on an AO microscope.

MichaelG.
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#85 Post by MichaelG. » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:45 am

stjepo wrote:I managed to take out the bulb light ... but now I am not able to put it back (instructions say is simple and show a #1036-856 tool) Help will be appreciated. :roll: :oops:
Looking at this: https://user.xmission.com/~psneeley/Per ... ndends.htm
The tool appears to provide heat-insulation and friction, to simplify handling of the bulb.
... It shouldn't be difficult to contrive an alternative.

MichaelG.
Quoted from the referenced source
Quoted from the referenced source
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Too many 'projects'

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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#86 Post by Hobbyst46 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:05 pm

Years ago I used to replace small (very) hot electric light bulbs with the aid of a flexible plastic tube (Tygon or similar). The inner diameter of the tube should be very slightly smaller than the bulb diameter. You push the tube onto the bulb such that it grabs it forcefully. Then screw-out or otherwise rotate the bulb to pull it out of the socket. It works both directions.

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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#87 Post by stjepo » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:59 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:Years ago I used to replace small (very) hot electric light bulbs with the aid of a flexible plastic tube (Tygon or similar). The inner diameter of the tube should be very slightly smaller than the bulb diameter. You push the tube onto the bulb such that it grabs it forcefully. Then screw-out or otherwise rotate the bulb to pull it out of the socket. It works both directions.
Thank you I try that...

Regards

stjepo
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Re: TRINOCULAR HEAD FOR CORRECT TOKYO SEIWA MICROSCOPE

#88 Post by stjepo » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:40 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:Years ago I used to replace small (very) hot electric light bulbs with the aid of a flexible plastic tube (Tygon or similar). The inner diameter of the tube should be very slightly smaller than the bulb diameter. You push the tube onto the bulb such that it grabs it forcefully. Then screw-out or otherwise rotate the bulb to pull it out of the socket. It works both directions.

Thanks it worked!!!!!!!


Regards

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