Found: Leitz K4 condenser lens (Can a mod please move this to the equipment discussion? Thanks!)

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Rorschach
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Found: Leitz K4 condenser lens (Can a mod please move this to the equipment discussion? Thanks!)

#1 Post by Rorschach » Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:39 pm

I would like to buy this auxiliary lens that is intended for Orthoplan condensers.
Last edited by Rorschach on Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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75RR
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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#2 Post by 75RR » Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:51 pm

You might want to place a request at the photomacrography forum as well. I remember mrsonchus sourced one there.

https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... 767e23adac
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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#3 Post by Rorschach » Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:11 am

You're right. Forgot to do that!

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#4 Post by Leitzcycler » Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:15 pm

What is it :o ? No such a lens came with my Orthoplan. It is not mentioned in the Orthoplan manual or other materia I have.

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#5 Post by Rorschach » Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:40 pm

It is not absolutely necessary but it does improve the way the condensor can set up the light in terms of the super-widefield light channel and view that the Orthoplan is capable of. Probably completely unnecessary if you only utilize 23mm eyepieces and photo eyepieces on it. Then again, why would anyone do that? There's the Ortholux II for that :D

The lens is mentioned somewhere in my materials. I'll try to dig it up.

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#6 Post by Leitzcycler » Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:07 pm

There is OrtholuxII, yes. However, it seems there is much more both Orthoplan stands and accessories in the market. For me, the high quality and modularity, especially easy attachment of fluorescence device Ploemopak is of high value. Large field of view is nice ( I have 30mm wide field eyepieces), however I am not so convinced it is so critical in revealing new details from the sample as Leitz advertise. You eyes can't see so large field of view at a time and scannig the field by your eyes may also be stressing. This is not only my opinion as I red something similar from somewhere some time ago, however don't remember where it was. Anyway the large field of view gives me a nice feeling that I am more "in" the landscape of the sample. After using Orthoplan some time I get an anxious feeling when looking into a microscope with a normal field of view. But I think this psychological effect might have nothing (or only little) to do with getting the actual information from the sample.

Without the auxiliary lens the image is good for me. It might be very hard to find, and probably relatively expensive taking into account my poor economical situation for running my lab in which most costs are not related to microscopy :( .

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#7 Post by mrsonchus » Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:29 pm

Leitzcycler wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:15 pm
What is it :o ? No such a lens came with my Orthoplan. It is not mentioned in the Orthoplan manual or other materia I have.
Here's a snip from Leitz info,
K1 vs K4 inserts.jpg
K1 vs K4 inserts.jpg (34 KiB) Viewed 8825 times

This is the one I had in my Orthoplan's condenser....
ws_condenser K4 arrival and fitting (18).jpg
ws_condenser K4 arrival and fitting (18).jpg (52.57 KiB) Viewed 8825 times
They're not as expensive as you may think, about £40-£60 should be about right for the U.K. if you spot one.
Last edited by mrsonchus on Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#8 Post by MichaelG. » Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:39 pm

mrsonchus wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:29 pm

This is the one I had in my Orthoplan's condenser.....
What an interesting-looking lens
... ‘though maybe it’s just a trick of the light

I would love to see a sectional drawing, or the detailed formula.

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#9 Post by Rorschach » Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:36 am

mrsonchus wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:29 pm
Leitzcycler wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:15 pm
What is it :o ? No such a lens came with my Orthoplan. It is not mentioned in the Orthoplan manual or other materia I have.
Here's a snip from Leitz info,
Image

This is the one I had in my Orthoplan's condenser....
Image

They're not as expensive as you may think, about £40-£60 should be about right for the U.K. if you spot one.
The pic and info are not showing. :?:

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#10 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:46 am

Rorschach wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:36 am
The pic and info are not showing. :?:
They are still showing fine on my iPad

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#11 Post by Rorschach » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:52 am

MichaelG. wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:46 am
Rorschach wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:36 am
The pic and info are not showing. :?:
They are still showing fine on my iPad

MichaelG.
Strange...I still can't see them. Appear as broken links.

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#12 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:55 am

Images hosted on google seem to behave weirdly. I can't see them either.

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#13 Post by 75RR » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:20 am

I can't see it either.

Should look like this:
Attachments
Leitz K4-.jpg
Leitz K4-.jpg (51.58 KiB) Viewed 8827 times
Last edited by 75RR on Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#14 Post by Rorschach » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:24 am

Thanks 75RR! This one is visible.

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#15 Post by 75RR » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:35 am

I believe Perl over at the photomacrography forum may have one. You could send him a PM
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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#16 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:42 am

Screenshot:
.
6ED6B82F-A92A-49C6-AFD6-4EF5074EF6F4.jpeg
6ED6B82F-A92A-49C6-AFD6-4EF5074EF6F4.jpeg (154.88 KiB) Viewed 8847 times
.

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#17 Post by Rorschach » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:02 am

MichaelG do you still have the K4 and would you sell it?

I did send a question to Perl already at the other forum.

Edit: the images in your latest message are visible !

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#18 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:44 am

Rorschach wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:02 am
MichaelG do you still have the K4 and would you sell it?

I did send a question to Perl already at the other forum.

Edit: the images in your latest message are visible !
Crossed lines, I think

... I have never had a K4

My images are just a screenshot of what mrsonchus posted

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#19 Post by Rorschach » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:15 am

MichaelG. wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:44 am
Rorschach wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:02 am
MichaelG do you still have the K4 and would you sell it?

I did send a question to Perl already at the other forum.

Edit: the images in your latest message are visible !
Crossed lines, I think

... I have never had a K4

My images are just a screenshot of what mrsonchus posted

MichaelG.
Ok. I take full responsibility for the confusion :D

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#20 Post by mrsonchus » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:50 am

Opps, I'll see if I can import the images into the forum's host, back soon! :oops:

Should be OK now folks.
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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#21 Post by Rorschach » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:33 am

mrsonchus wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:50 am
Opps, I'll see if I can import the images into the forum's host, back soon! :oops:

Should be OK now folks.
It is, thanks John!

By the way, same problem in the old thread where you discussed the installation of this same K4 lens (the protruding screw). None of the images are visible here in the thread, yet they are all on google when you do an image search!

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#22 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:45 am

Rorschach wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:15 am
Ok. I take full responsibility for the confusion :D
Very gracious of you
... It’s no problem: I just didn’t want to see you disappointed

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#23 Post by Leitzcycler » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:20 pm

How much the K4 lens really improve the image?

It is not mentioned in the older Orthoplan manuals or brochures. So it must be some kind of improvement made later?

I hope I can live without the K4 lens...

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#24 Post by Rorschach » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:45 pm

Leitzcycler wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:20 pm
How much the K4 lens really improve the image?

It is not mentioned in the older Orthoplan manuals or brochures. So it must be some kind of improvement made later?

I hope I can live without the K4 lens...
Several people who have it, have told me that it is either useful or important. One was of the opinion that it isn't very important.

Please see the attached screenshot. It is from the 1974 Leitz publication 'Image-forming and illuminating systems of the microscope. Objectives, eyepieces, condensers.' It is a 120 page tome of knowledge, highly useful. It of course lacks all of the truly new Leitz developed products of the late 70ies and there on.
Leitz_aux_condenser_lenses.jpg
Leitz_aux_condenser_lenses.jpg (89.71 KiB) Viewed 8784 times

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Re: WTB: Leitz K4 condenser lens

#25 Post by Rorschach » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:56 am

In a couple days I have been able to source two K4 lenses for very reasonable prices. One goes into the 602 condenser and the other will rotate between the 402a and a to-be-purchased polarizing condenser for the Orthoplan. Reading on it and listening to people having used them, it seems clear that the K4 is especially useful to have on a 602 and potentially useful on those other Orthoplan system condensors.

The K4 lens is very hard to come by in itself, as a stand alone item. However, here's how you will find one or two quite quickly. First do an ebay search using 'Leitz condenser'. Within the results, check all the 600 series 'bathtub' condensor listings for a good photo of the underside. If there's none, ask the seller for it. Then compare the image with the two photos attached here. The thing is, 90% or more of the sellers haven't even heard of the K4 lens and often do not even know that the condenser they are selling might have one installed. That's how I found the two K4s in a matter of two days, most of which time was spent waiting for the sellers to pull the lens out from the belly to verify that it is K4 (as you can see from the above Leitz literature excerpt, there are many others, so you need to check).

Hope that helps a few of you who want to find a K4!

Here's a 600 series condenser that hasn't got any extra lens installed:
Condenser_underside_without_extra_lens.jpg
Condenser_underside_without_extra_lens.jpg (32.05 KiB) Viewed 8738 times
Here's the underside of a 600 series condenser that has one of the auxiliary lenses installed:
Condenser_underside_with_extra_lens.jpg
Condenser_underside_with_extra_lens.jpg (69.76 KiB) Viewed 8738 times
The images are not mine. I was rogue enough to just use imagery available among Ebay listings.


Edit: having the wrong aux lens on a condenser, and not knowing it, sounds like a recipe to get less than perfect results with your scope. A K1 in a condenser on an Orthoplan or a K4 in a condenser on one of the Leitzes that are not super-widefield might at least partly explain a certain 'lack of something' in the imagery.

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Re: Found: Leitz K4 condenser lens (Can a mod please move this to the equipment discussion? Thanks!)

#26 Post by MichaelG. » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:33 pm

Thanks for that very helpful note, Rorschach

I don’t have any present need for a K4 ... but who knows

What I do have, however, is an ‘academic’ interest in how Leitz designed and implemented these variations on the condenser theme.

The picture that John B posted is quite intriguing, because it appears to show a creamy white insert within the lens ... Could I please ask you to post pictures of your new acquisitions; to clarify whether this appearance is real, or just a trick of the light in which John was shooting.

Many thanks
MichaelG.
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Re: Found: Leitz K4 condenser lens (Can a mod please move this to the equipment discussion? Thanks!)

#27 Post by Rorschach » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:41 pm

MichaelG. wrote:
Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:33 pm
Thanks for that very helpful note, Rorschach

I don’t have any present need for a K4 ... but who knows

What I do have, however, is an ‘academic’ interest in how Leitz designed and implemented these variations on the condenser theme.

The picture that John B posted is quite intriguing, because it appears to show a creamy white insert within the lens ... Could I please ask you to post pictures of your new acquisitions; to clarify whether this appearance is real, or just a trick of the light in which John was shooting.

Many thanks
MichaelG.
No problem, once they arrive, I'll take some photos for you.

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Re: Found: Leitz K4 condenser lens (Can a mod please move this to the equipment discussion? Thanks!)

#28 Post by MichaelG. » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:55 pm

Thank You ... Much appreciated.

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Re: Found: Leitz K4 condenser lens (Can a mod please move this to the equipment discussion? Thanks!)

#29 Post by Leitzcycler » Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:46 pm

Thanks, this is important information! After seeing the above pictures and looking my condenser there is actually an auxiliary lens. I never thought it is an extra lens. I took it out, however there is a text: "Laborlux" :shock: Now I am confused. Image seems to be ok as far as I understand. However, the condenser seems not to be the proper one for Orthoplan. At least in theory.

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Re: Found: Leitz K4 condenser lens (Can a mod please move this to the equipment discussion? Thanks!)

#30 Post by Rorschach » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:24 am

As the Laborlux is not a super-widefield scope and the K4 lens is specifically intended to cater for that aspect, one would imagine that there would be some difference in light quality.

Perhaps it doesn't manifest itself in all situations? Could it be that things like aperture, magnification, brightfield or darkfield, lamp power, field iris aperture, any field filters and light-path swing-out lens position affect this?

The two K4 lenses are on the way to me, one from Spain and the other from Russia.

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