A.O. bits wanted

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arb566
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A.O. bits wanted

#1 Post by arb566 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:26 pm

Looking for a few things for an A.O. 110.

Polarizer/wave plate cat# 1153
I have the analyser turret but missing this lower unit.

Darkfield condenser cat#1096
Not familiar with these so any advice from more knowledgeable A.O. users would be appreciated.

Phase contrast, Haven't been able to find much info on the A.O.kit for this so again any input from members would be welcome.

Cheers, Al

apochronaut
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#2 Post by apochronaut » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:24 pm

I can reply with more info. on Monday but maybe P.M. me and jog my memory too. I wil be able to help some but there are a bunch of others on the forum who know about this stuff too.

1096 are not showing up much , lately. Probably have become a hotcake.

Zuul
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#3 Post by Zuul » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:21 am

Is there a significant difference between the 1096 and the 1096b? This listing says it is a 1096b: https://www.ebay.com/c/9003206223

arb566
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#4 Post by arb566 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:51 am

Thanks for the link. unfortunately reading his listing he doesn't really know what he has and not sure of the cat #. I'm not familiar enough with these to know that it's suitable for the 110. Perhaps someone else can chime in?

Zuul
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#5 Post by Zuul » Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:22 am

I don’t claim to be an expert, so I can’t help much. Apochronaut will be back shortly, and I am 99.9% certain he will know.

It is not like my 214f, or others of that vintage as far as I can tell. So it is either newer (good for you) or older (less so). I think there is a broad range of compatibility if you are willing to tinker.

PeteM
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#6 Post by PeteM » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:11 am

As Zuul says, it should be possible to adapt it. I had one in a similar case and it went back a while.

You'd end up with two condenser centering mechanisms - the one on your condenser holder and the one incorporated in the condenser itself. And instead of using the objective inserts to reduce numerical aperture, you could do better using AO (50x & 100x) objectives with an iris.

What I don't recall is what, if any, bits of metal removal might be needed to get the dovetail it to fit. Recollection (on my old example) is a bit was required to move it up a couple generations.

arb566
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#7 Post by arb566 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:32 am

Thanks for the input guys, It's going to help me get a handle on where to go with this. I'm not in a huge rush and would rather know what the devil I'm buying before I pull the trigger. Apochronaut has said he will get back to me next week and I'm curious to see what he (and anyone else for that matter) has to say.
I do have the 50x iris objective to use. Actually I bought it from you Pete a few weeks back! The 100x will go on the wish list.

Cheers, Al.

apochronaut
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#8 Post by apochronaut » Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:17 pm

AO changed the condenser dovetail with the introduction of the series 100 microscopes. They had used the same dovetail for 3 series and the centering mechanisms were part of the diaphragm body, not the yoke. With the series 100 they went to only aspheric and achromat condensers, which due to the illumination profile, have a slightly different rear focal plane. The company probably didn't want users to jumble condenser types between series. The new dovetail yokes further , were equipped with centering screws.

The only DF condenser made for the series 100 microscopes and subsequently the series 400, which uses most of the same condensers and then some ; is the #1096. It is a toric DF condenser, capable of effecting ca free ( cardioid ) DF with 20X up to 100X objectives.

The condenser pictured in this thread is not a 1096B. The seller is mistaken. It is a 218F, which is a self illuminated DF condenser, recommended up until the end of the series 10 era, for users who wanted to do 1000X DF without shelliing out for a 100 watt series 20. The unit pictured is missing the lamp socket, wires and 6v. transformer. They work pretty well, especially if the illuminator is set up with sufficient dispersion. One of the principal uses of those condensers going back to their introduction in the 30's , was for rapid syphilis identification in the doctor's office. It was a big thing in the military and Spencer sold thousands of dedicated self illuminated DF microscopes to army doctors. To this day, the best diagnosis for syphilis is DF microscopy and should also be employed for rapid diagnosis of Lyme disease, caused by a surprisingly similar highly transparent organism . A lot of the controversy over Lyme disease could have been avoided , had doctors a simple tool such as a 500.00 DF microscope in their offices. A small amount of serum from the tick attachment area would do the trick. DF is still done in some labs( fewer and fewer) but the sample is time sensitive for syphilis and DF is not used for Lyme at all, with the current ELISA protocol being a reason why so many cases go undiagnosed. Syphilis went on the rise partially due to the cessation of in-office tests and it became a huge complicating factor in HIV, as a participating co-infection contributing to full blown aids; one of the great pandemic blunders of history but medical science must be on a roll because they won't rest until they find another.

The 1096B does exist. It is a modified version of the 1096, with centering controls. The series 10/20 had as an option a toric DF condenser . It looks a little different because it was a modified toric condenser made in Austria for the Zetopan and others. When that condenser ceased to be but there were still enough customers wanting to retrofit mainly series 20's to toric DF, they made a certain number of modified 1096s, during onenof their production runs.

arb566
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#9 Post by arb566 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:51 pm

Thanks for the info, and the history lesson! The bit about the Lyme disease was very interesting.

Yes, the fellow admits in the listing he doesn't really know what he has. As Pete says it may be adaptable and I may go that route if forced to but I'd rather have the right piece if I can find it. The same goes for the polarizer/wave plate.
I think the best thing for me is going to be patience, I'll keep messing with the stops and patches. (I'm having fun with it anyway!) Meanwhile I'll keep my eyes open for a 1096, I'm sure one will come up eventually. I believe it will be much the same for the other odds and sods I'm looking for. Maybe not common items but they did make a lot of these scopes so it shouldn't be impossible.
I have to admit I'm quite taken with the 110. I was a little hesitant after doing my research and some people dismissing them but I was very happy with my 570 stereo and thought it worth a try. So far very glad I did. I've found it to be a very well made, versatile workhorse obviously built to work all day every day for a long time. They may not have the same cache' as the big three but for an old fart on a pension the "bang for the buck" is hard to beat! I am fortunate to have found one in beautiful shape at a very reasonable price and look forward to making the most of its potential.

Again, Thanks for all the input. This forum and its members have proven to be a fabulous resource. If anyone comes across any of these bits please keep me in mind.

Cheers, Al.

apochronaut
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#10 Post by apochronaut » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:17 am

The dovetail on the series 10/20 standard 214F or the 218F DF condensers are machined on a brushed chrome collar. The collar is fiitted over the cylindrical body of the condenser and fixed with one screw. One could machine a new dovetail to match the series100 .

The original dovetail includes a rather substantial flange on top that fits nicely on top of the dovetail yoke. There is a small tolerance difference between two different examples. It's only a matter of a few thou. and makes no difference to the condenser's function in the original dovetail yoke but the shallow ones will not fit a 100 series condenser yoke and a deeper one will. You can just slip it over the yoke and it works well on a 100. So, they will work but only some of them

arb566
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#11 Post by arb566 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:34 am

Good to know there may be an option if the 1096 doesn't pan out.

Scarodactyl
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#12 Post by Scarodactyl » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:25 am

I have a 1153 I'd be willing to part with. The polarizer shows some delamination but still gets very good extinction when crossed with a known good one, so I guess it is nelow the polarizing layer.

arb566
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#13 Post by arb566 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:49 am

Sent a P.M. Scarodactyl

apochronaut
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#14 Post by apochronaut » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:17 pm

With respect to the addition of a phase contrast system to a series 100 scope. The dovetail situation stays the same as detailed above so I don't really think the possibility to utilize an older #1242 phase condenser exists. The required phase condenser housing is a #1205 . If you could find a derelict modern diaphragm housing, say from a 1087 aspheric condenser with the correct dovetail, it would be possible to retrofit a 1242 to fit a series 100 by replacing the dovetail. It isn't a direct swap but requires drilling and tapping , a disassembly of the 1242 iris ....a lot of work but if finding a 1205 proves difficult,. perhaps a contingency plan. 1242 condensers seem more numerous than 1205s. Of course just as you finish retrofitting a 1242 a 1205 would land on your doorstep.

arb566
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#15 Post by arb566 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:38 pm

Thanks Apo,
Yup, sods law, you always find what you want immediately after getting the substitute.
Interesting about the older phase condensers, are the phase rings/annuli etc. compatible with the newer objectives?
It wouldn't be a problem to deal with the drilling and tapping or iris redo, remachining a dovetail is beyond my options as I don't have access to a metal lathe.
Patience has never really been my forte' but I'll hang in there for a while and try for the"right stuff". Good to have options tho'.
I have noticed a few dark/phase objectives listed on eBay , any advice on what to look for/avoid?

Al.

apochronaut
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#16 Post by apochronaut » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:34 pm

They changed the #'s on the annuli when they built a new series but the phase objective #'s did not change. A phase objective made in 1985 would work as well on a microscope made in 1965 and visa versa. The annuli are the same, except the very early ones for the 160mm systems.
The dark plan achros are probably the ones to look for. The objectives are just phase versions of existing BF objectives. The Cat. # 1211 dark phase planachro 10X is a cat. # 1019 with a phase ring and so forth. The phase achromats follow suite.

rmb
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#17 Post by rmb » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:40 pm

I have had some success fitting the later 110 condenser holders onto series 20 scopes. Indeed you can get the whole stage from a 110 onto the AO 20 dovetail. It may be due to wear in the varous parts or lucky alignments as somtimes the condenser holders are a bit tight. You can also fit the AO 20 holders onto the 110 dovetail

Element 56
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#18 Post by Element 56 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:22 pm

I didn't read through the whole thread so I don't know where you're at with your search for a condenser. I have several dark field condensers that I think are the same as the one in the eBay link. If you can use that style I would be happy to let you try it before you buy it? I'm not home now but I can send you pics later today if you like? Hate to see you spend money on something that might not workout. I think I have 4 or 5 of them so you wouldn't be putting me out :mrgreen:

Regards,
Kirby

arb566
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#19 Post by arb566 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:03 am

Thank you Element, that's a kind offer. a pic or two would be great. Do you know how much you will be selling for?

Cheers, Al.

arb566
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#20 Post by arb566 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:05 am

Thanks rmb, that may be another option to look into if the 1096 doesn't show up.

Element 56
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#21 Post by Element 56 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:33 am

Al,

Is $30 fair? Not sure how much shipping would be but if you pm me your address I can give you a total tomorrow. Again you don't have to give anything until you try it.

The model number is 214f and I have the manual. It says it's for objectives equal to or greater than 40x. Next time I go to work I can scan it for you. I think I got them with some mercury light power supplies.

BTW, this website covers some of the interchangeably between condensers. Not sure if it specifically relates to your situation but worth looking at. The information is about 2/3 down the page.
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Kirby
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arb566
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#22 Post by arb566 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:15 am

Thanks for the pics Kirby. It looks to be in good condition. My location is Gabriola Island B.C. V0R1X7.
You mention a website but I don't see it in the post.
Al.

Element 56
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#23 Post by Element 56 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:17 am

Sorry!

https://user.xmission.com/~psneeley/Per ... Condensers

I'll catch up with you tomorrow!

Kirby

Zuul
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#24 Post by Zuul » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:42 am

I just tried my 214f on my 410. It fits and can be centered, so it seems like it should work fine. Here are photos.
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apochronaut
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#25 Post by apochronaut » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:48 am

They don' all fit and there were 2 , 400 series condenser yokes. One has narrower arms, so the 214F will work on those usually. On some 214Fs the distance from the upper flange to the condenser bottom is ever so slightly nsrrower and with the yoke that has the thicker arms, you cannot slide the condenser on.

arb566
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#26 Post by arb566 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:47 am

I would certainly like to find a way to compare with the forks on my 110. Has anyone ever taken calipers to a set of forks that fit the 214 or 218?

A couple more questions if I may,

According to Kirby the manual for the 214 says for 40x and above. Does this restriction apply to the 218 as well? I use a 20x regularly so this would be an issue.

Would a missing lamp socket on a 218 be difficult to resolve? I understand the 20w illuminator in the 110 can be a bit limiting for darkfield so a self illuminating condenser has its appeal.

arb566
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#27 Post by arb566 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:09 am

Thanks for the input and pics Zuul. Have you ever tried this condenser with an objective below 40x?

Al.

Zuul
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#28 Post by Zuul » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:31 am

I’ve used it a little with a 20x on my series 10. You don’t get true Darkfield. They are good for higher mag objectives that won’t work with patch stops. On the flip side, for the 20x you should be able to get good results from well made patch stops.

arb566
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#29 Post by arb566 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:37 am

Good to know.

Cheers, Al.

apochronaut
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Re: A.O. bits wanted

#30 Post by apochronaut » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:30 am

arb566 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:09 am
Thanks for the input and pics Zuul. Have you ever tried this condenser with an objective below 40x?

Al.
The reason for the 40x and above limitation with that condenser is strictly a question of field coverage. The condenser does not quite fill a 20X field. It will however fill a 25X field, so one way around that problem is to source a Reichert Austria 25X objective.
The Toric condenser has an extra field expanding lens in the bottom which gives coverage down to 20X.

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