Shipping tip

[Dale]

I hang out on a banjo forum, and they have similar damaged in transit horror stories. One
fellow who buys a lot said he requests the shipper to ship 'hold for pick-up.' Then the package
is opened in front of the postmaster, so nobody can accuse the receiver of any damage.
Sounds like a good idea for those expensive scopes we ship, does anyone have experience
doing this?
Dale

[JimT]

No scope experience but I once was going to sell my guitar on EBay. After I went to UPS and had them quote a price for packaging - with no assurances about damage I decided not to list it.

If a seller doesn't have the original packaging no way you can depend on safe delivery.

[Dale]

I think it is interesting to compare guitars and microscopes to their fragility and the
idea of repairing them. Lay people don't understand. Martin, shmartin, just another $5 Sears
beater. Yeah.
My problem is the postmaster won't come out to the counter! I have a reputation because
of the damage to my scope caused waves all the way to the top. I just emailed the postmasters
national organization about whether a normal postmaster would allow me to open my package
in the post office. There is the box cutter problem!
The scope is worth $7,000, but I can't justify flying, or driving, half way across the country
to pick it up.
Dale

[75RR]

You might consider asking the seller/shipper to show you detailed photos of how the microscope is packed.
This might at least avoid a "I thought that was good enough" scenario.

As to how to actually pack it, I would go for a well packed box within a box.
A good 2 inches of packing foam all round. Think of the extra weight as insurance.

[apochronaut]

Nothing works in shipping, if one of three things happens. 1)If parts are allowed to move around in the box. Generally, styrofoam peanuts are inadequate to prevent this. Heavy parts will sift through them , if the ship is long and there is a lot of vibration. The best is bubble wrap everything securely and tape so it stays, then fill the inter-spaces with highly compressed crumpled newspaper or similar paper. It is like packing the box with soft shock absorbers. Soft foam pieces also can work if there is enough of it but not large styrofoam pieces, unless they are very well fitted to conform to the space well.The packing needs to be compressed into the box a bit, then when it expands it will keep everything tight.
2) Vibration can destroy optical devices and occasionally musical instruments but they are generally built to withstand them, whereas microscopes are not. I've had two instances now where it seems , some sort of standing wave during transit caused glued prisms to fall off and screws to loosen. It's hard to guard against that and in the end, it has been 2 instances in about 1000 shipments, so the chances are low. I also once had a violin neck fall off but I can't put that exactly down to vibration. Old hide glue gets pretty brittle and it was easy to reset.
3)Perforation. Had this happen a few times with both no consequences and unfortunate consequences. Hard to avoid over time, I guess. Forklifts, cranky people on Fridays, postal workers playing soccer at lunch with 12" packages.

[75RR]

I would go for a well packed box within a box.

The microscope will travel best dismantled. Wrap each piece in bubble wrap individually and then wrap them in bubble wrap all together.
Place in a box it just fits in. That avoids movement.

A good 2 inches of packing foam all round.

Note: Packing foam not styrofoam! Place in the second larger box.
Again, choose a box the right size. That avoids movement and should take care of vibration.

[Crater Eddie]

The microscope will travel best dismantled. Wrap each piece in bubble wrap individually and then wrap them in bubble wrap all together.
Place in a box it just fits in. That avoids movement.

I will second this excellent advice. This was the way the fellow packed my L-2-2 microscope, and even though the box arrived a little beat up after its very long slow voyage from Moscow to the USA, the contents arrived without a scratch or dent.
CE

[Oktagon]

I have had few shipping nightmares, but generally the best practice is to disassemble the scope into major components, put plastic bags around open optical ports etc, then wrap each part in bubble wrap and then pack everything in mixture of old newspapers and strips of packing foam. Pack tight, so that nothing moves. Sometimes larger scopes need to go in more then one package. Do not reuse boxes, as they loose their rigidity. I have shipped Photomics, Universals, large inverted scopes and even one Ultraphot (UPS!!!). No issues, as long as you assume the package will be handled by wild animals and used as a training punchbag after being thrown out of airplane without parachute.

[Dale]

Problem solved. I plumb forgot about my freight forwarding experience with Alaska Air
lines. They put the packages into giant aluminum boxes, then put that into the airplane
with a forklift. No ramps, no conveyors, no wild animals. I watched them load and unload
for years. The catch is they have to fly between the two cities, and you have to deliver
and pick up. A 2 x 2 x 2 50# box is $111 from Seattle to midwest. Sure beats an $800
airplane trip, or an 80 hour bus ride. That $111 includes $30 for a lot of insurance.
Dale

[JimT]

Let us know how it works out and "Good luck"

[Dale]

Will do, can't say when yet.
Dale

[75RR]

They put the packages into giant aluminum boxes, then put that into the airplane
with a forklift. No ramps, no conveyors, no wild animals.

That will no doubt help as those giant aluminum boxes are too big to play football with but you will still want to dismantle the microscope to ship it.

[apochronaut]

The unfortunate thing about shipping is that the receiver is usually the only one that sees the results. The sender may hear about it, may see pictures,may believe them,or the report, partially believe it or not believe it at all but over time with the number of packages I have been involved with and 95% of them on the receiving end, I have seen some results that defy logic. Generally, yes; remove the optics and pack separately but in one instance the result of that was disastrous as the head sifted down below the microscopes body and suffered repeatedly from the arm bouncing on the ocular tubes and despite it being bubble packed one of the tubes was dented and deformed. Packing optics in a separate well packed smaller box, is a good idea, if possible.
I've seen microscopes shipped sloppily, right off the shelf, minimal packing, eyepieces in the tubes, objectives in the nosepiece, yet arrive having travelled 3,000 + miles and cross a border with not a scratch, yet I've also seen similar microscopes disassembled and packed with care, travel the same route and get damaged. It does to a large degree come down to being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Vibration is almost impossible to guard against. It rarely enters the picture but when it does, it can destroy a microscope. Airplanes have a lot of different vibrating frequencies. Most of the packing materials used ; aluminum, foam, styrofoam, paper, cardboard sheet,even semi rigid plastic polymers have been used at one time or another to make loudspeakers, so they are not immune to vibration and having a box that is in the wrong location in a plane, for a long enough time can be disastrous for fragile optical instruments.
If I had my choice and I used to, I would choose ground shipment every time but there is no longer any U.S.P.S. ground shipment to Canada. Shipping domestically, I would take the slow truck route and just accept the few extra days as security.

[Oktagon]

It is interesting to see someone else mention receiving scopes packaged sloppily and not suffering a damage. My fairly recent purchase was a WL fro eBay, which I bought mainly because it had full nosepiece of planapos, interesting no-contact camera head and the seller clearly did not know that he was selling the scope for the value of a single objective. I took a risk in getting fully delaminated paper weight and placed a bid in the last second. The scope arrived about a week later, and when I saw the box, my heart sank. It was reused Home Depot box, where microscope was simply put inside fully assembled with some old rags around the parts I did not care about in the first place, like camera body.
Well, I was lucky, and Zeiss made some good scopes 40 years ago. No damage, no misalignment and no delamination! Not even slightest shadows seen through Bertrand lens! So, sometimes shipping mirricles happen, but usually there are nightmares.

[Dale]

I just finished an Ebay selling of 6 Nikon slr lenses, and I sweated bullets until the
buyers reported receiving good lenses. Every buyer commented on my packing, which
was the double box - black foam method.
I tested a block of that foam by fastetning it to an electric sander. Not very scientific,
but I felt nothing on the other side. Good stuff, but what is its real name?
Phil, is there any documentation on these vibations? I just read a book by a pilot
of a 747, and he mentioned them several times.
I have a violin coming in a few days, wish me luck!
Dale

[apochronaut]

Not that I know of. No doubt the cargo doesn't get the attention that the passengers do, too.
Violins should be shipped with the strings tight but not super tight...just enough to keep pressure on the soundpost. I received one from Germany once, in a thin box not much wider or longer, than the instrument. There was almost no packing, a thin 1/4" sheet of foam wrapped around it. The foam had bunched up at one end so the violin was forced to the neck end. The neck had burst through the end of the box, so it arrived undamaged from Germany with the neck sticking out of the end of the box. The post office clerk, carried it to me by the neck! I never had quite that kind of luck with a microscope.

[Dale]

I found this very interesting, albeit heavy:
https://www.ista.org/forms/2015_FAA%20A ... _SINGH.pdf
Many articles recommended one precaution for air shipments, to be aware of
3G forces in all directions.
Dale