New lab lighting advice really needed

[Dale]

I have no experience with this, so any help will, well, help. The room is 8 x 10, with 9' ceiling. Ceiling
will be white, and the walls light grey. A narrow 8' window sits high in the South wall. There will be 3 big
scopes and 2 computers mostly along the South wall. I plan a specimen prep desk on the East wall, and a
clean work bench on the West wall. The North wall will be for lots of storage.
I have a suggested lighting spec of 2 4' 4 tube diffused fluorescent fixtures running daylight type bulbs.
The architect thought I might be over doing it, and suggested a single 4' 4 tube with diffuser, flush mounted.
4 f32t8 bulbs equal 128 watts.
If two fixtures are required they would have to be parallel, either E to W, or N to S. I had my choice
between a heated floor or air-conditioning, a/c won!
Dale
EDIT Maybe solved this myself. Buried deep in the lighting forums was a suggestion to put each of two fixtures
on its own switch.

[rabitt]

Just a suggestion: One thing I learned years ago is Make sure the lighting is directly over your
work bench or work area. You want light shining directly down on your work project, not
behind you if possible.

[Dale]

That's what I'm puzzling on now. I think if I put one fixture close to and parallel to the South wall, it
will light the 3 scopes very well. The 2nd fixture could be in a North South orientation, or just parallel and behind
the other.
I can always add fixtures if I plan ahead. I had less trouble with a Rubik's cube!
Dale

[75RR]

It would be useful to have separate switches for the lights - to be able to turn just some on or off, a dimmer function would also be helpful. There are times I want a lot of light and others - when photographing through the microscope for example when a dim light is best/more comfortable.
You may also want a bright light close to a table or bench and a bench magnifier lamp for the fiddly stuff.

[Charles]

Also another option maybe a partition between your 'clean' side and 'prep' side, with dedicated lighting to both. I like strong lighting for working on my scopes or specimen but more dimmed lighting when using the scopes. You can always use separate lamps to put lighting where you want it.

[Dale]

I'm using the independent switches, that's a really good idea. Trying to drag my feet on this lighting, as I don't
have the Nikon with its camera to see how lighting will be best arranged. How big a partition do you think I need?
My specimens don't splatter much!!
Dale

[Peter]

Hi Dale,
In my microscopy room I fitted fluorescent tubes right round the wall ceiling junction with diffusers over, all on one circuit (switched together). This gives heaps of soft shadowless glare free light. I find it very good for working under and have never found a problem with reflections or too much light.

Hope this helps.

Peter.

[Dale]

Now that's an idea. I was going to attach a floor plan, but the room is so simple. 8' by 10'. Computers on
left 8' wall, 3 scopes on 10' wall, and misc on the right side 8' wall. The left over 10' wall is for the door and
storage. The garage is lit that way.
So, you think if I put a 4' dual tube diffused on each walls center I'd be good? I know I need more than
average light because of my age.
Dale

[einman]

My lab is 31.5 ft by 16.5 ft and I have 8 fixtures containing 4 4ft tubes@40 watt each. They are controlled by 2 switches.

I also have 2 LED fixtures over the book shelves.

My advice is look into using LED. You can get them in Daylight and they give off a good deal of light. The energy cost is very small. Mount them directly over your bench(s) and use fluorescent for general lighting.

[Dale]

How are the 8 fixtures arranged?
Dale

[einman]

Due to the ceiling design they are positioned as such more or less up the center of the room

WALL


2ft---XXX--2ft---XXX---6ft----xxx--2ft---xxx-2ft---LED


2Ft--xxx---2ft---xxx---6ft---xxx--2ft---xxx---2ft---LED



WALL

[charlie g]

Hi, Dale and all...my thoughts: 8'X10' is too small to clutter with a partion you latter need to 'work around' with bench/book shelf/general equipment repositioning.

I always want to get to your gorgeous state, your gorgeous city...we still have not...but I sense you have a lot of rain/ a lot of overcast days in Seatle, Wa.? So your southern exposure window is the gem you should best utilize...not obstruct the natural light entry to the bench on that side of the room. This natural light zone a good location for collected outdoor specimens...though you have not stated the types of microscopy you will be enjoying.

As with einmen...I suggest most lighting directly at your benches...both the microscopes area....and the lab area. Literally you can enjoy 'desk lamp lighting' at both work areas. That over head tube lighting to me seems not critical...but I guess you already 'droped the duckets' for it's installation.

Lighting where you will spend the hours...and comfortable chairs or chair where you will spend the hours...and cherish any natural light that window offers. As a working stiff...my microscopy is often after dark....dim light at the stands bench, an LED powerful little torch to view into specimen jars, to peek at things with oblique illumination in specimen jars for transfer to microscope slide...and the lighting left on at adjacent bench where specimen jars are placed after outdoor collecting.

Glad you have computers right in your lab...our family shared computer is in a separate room...but I really suggest you have book shelves in your lab room. thanks for a peek into your microscopy, Dale...hope we here about your microscopy soon. charlie guevara, finger lakes/US

[Dale]

Hey, Charlie, Washington is one spread out state. You can snow ski in the morning, water
ski at noon, scuba dive afternoon, and ocean surf in the evening. Or, as some do, collect
diatoms in Puget Sound!
I am moving to the dryest city in the state, Sequim, so I'll be enjoying lots of natural
light through an 8' wide window.
No money has been spent on the lab, except for two walls and the air-conditioning. The
lighting budget is wide open. I just can't convince the wife I need a heated floor!
I think 4 2 tube dimmable led fixtures parallel to each wall, and 2 feet away from
each wall ought to work. If each fixture were on its own dimmer I would have total
control. ? ? ?
Dale (retired) Fiorillo

[Oktagon]

I would follow architect's suggestion and have one flush fixture with 4 tubes roughly in the middle of room, and use individual Dazor work klghts on each bench. They are the best in the industry. I use them exclusively in my home lab, as well as at work. They are still made in USA and go back to 50's in the design. Not cheap, about $350-500 per light, depending on the model.
I would also pay attention to ventilation. If you are planning to use solvents, make sure you have good negative air flow and since you are using sophisticated optics, put HEPA filters on the intake.

[Dale]

Hi, Okta. The architect doesn't care a bit, he just needs to finish the plans! I have pretty much ruled out the center
fixture because of shadows. I would like long rows of 4' tube types about 24" from all the walls. I have a lot of task
lamps for problem spots.
The room has positive air flow from the A/C. No more solvents, I have ruined enough objectives. My unanswered
question for the electrician is can they put a temp sensor in the lab, as it could easily get hotter than the rest of the house.
My initial idea was a nice exhaust fan, but I quickly learned venting into the garage is a big no-no!
My current plan is to put the 8' linoleum countertop against the 8' wall, with 2 4' fluorescents overhead. Just hoping
3 big scopes will fit. This leaves much more space for the computer and shelving.
I have read and read, but I just can't justify led lights. My only worry would be interference flickering with the monitors.
Somewhere on the wall will be a placard crediting everybody who gave me all these great ideas. Might need a bigger room!
Dale

[Oktagon]

Looks like you are putting together petty good lab. My own is much larger, but it is in the basement. I don't have positive air flow, but I have hoods and clean box. If you have a way of installing HEPA filter in the air path, so AC does not blow dust into your lab, I would do it.
The reason I suggested Dazor lamps is that they are the best money can by, and also from purely aesthetic point, their "dove gray" color is exactly the same as Zeiss gray Iven the texture matches.
One think I did when I was equipping my microscopy bench is instead of linoleum I opted for black soap stone, just like typical lab bench, and the rest of the benches are stainless. When I use stereo microscope, I frequently place specimens directly on the soap stone surface. No reflections and smooth black background.
Also, you mentioned clean bench. What type of projects are you planning to do?

[Dale]

I will check next week about the filters, all I know right now is that it is a Trane heat pump. Might be possible to incorporate
the filters at the vent.
Looked at the Dazor lamps on Ebay, some affordable, some really expensive, they might clash with my white Nikon!
I already have the lineoleum. I have a 3 by 5 formica table, and a 2 by 5 mahogany computer desk, plus a lot of
white Ikea bookshelves and drawers.
The clean bench was just a spot with no scopes where collection containers could watched and sampled. Bugs
be dissected, etc. I have never had all 3 scopes at once to see how much room I need to roll from one to another.
I really need to do a good mock-up, especially to establish the desk height. The NIkon, and the inverted both have
eyepieces about 17" from the desk, the poor little stereoscope a measly 12". Ergonomics!
I would to post a plan, but I don't know what kind of graphic is allowed here.
Dale
PS: to everyone who is posting I really really appreciate all this help. Right now I have to drag a scope from a shelf
and put it on a card table.

[Oktagon]

What kind of Nikon do you have? My scopes are all pretty big, Universal with original binocular tube, which is inclined at a higher angle requires lower desk, but I installed PMIII head, so it is less pointed upwards, so standard 36" table works just fine. The same goes for ICM405, they are approximately the same height. ICM-405 ergonomics is really strange, you almost have to hug the scope to work on it, but it sits in the center of the bench, so it is not too bad. I also installed felt pads on the feet of all scopes. They soften the vibrations for photo work and also allow 20+kg scopes to be easily moved around the table. The stereo is on th boom, so I can swing it anywhere.
Dazor lights on eBay are usually brown or bronze old drafting lights. Check out their new ones on their website. I bought three sets of LED drafting lamps in dove gray few years ago and my eyes said many thanks. I remember them being about $350 each. They will serve my grandchildren.
As far as dean desk for sample prep and dissection, I would suggest stainless top, or just buy a large Mayo tray or two, and they should cover most of the desk. Easy to clean and easy to spot things on.
...almost forgot; if you still have not done the floor, I would go with flat light colored linoleum with no patterns on it. If you drop something, you will find it. You can also install small magnets on the floor in the corners or strategic spots. If you drop a screw or a spring, just give it a light sweep, and the orphan part will end up on one of the magnets. For the sample and slide storage I prefer one of those stainless tool chests with multiple drawers available from Sears. Snap-on also makes a good one. Don't forget to have a metal cabinet for caustic chemicals storage. Safety is important. The other thing is to have a sterilizing UV lamp mounted on the wall. You can turn it for about an hour every couple of days to prevent nasty things from growing in the lab. Also helps to prevent mold from growing on your equipment.

[Dale]

Boy, you are keeping me busy. Spending my 74th birthday online!
My surplus chair is so bad, an ergo height for the desk is 24", think I will get a new chair. My Nikon,
due shortly, is an Eclipse E600, the inverted is a Biostar. Your ICM must be the 405? What a cool
looking scope.
When I mentioned felt pads it was quickly mentioned that I should use rubber for vibration iso-
lation. I do intend to do a lot of photography, but I don't expect a lot of vibration.
I will mount the UV lamp right next to the IsoGel dispenser. Mayo tray, yes, didn't know they
had their own name.
Dale

[Peter]

Hi Dale,
To add to my previous post; my microscopy room is 8' x 10', above each 8' wall is a 6' fluorescent tube, and above each 10' wall a 5' + 4' tubes. I've never had a problem with too little light.

Peter.

[75RR]

You can also install small magnets on the floor in the corners or strategic spots. If you drop a screw or a spring, just give it a light sweep, and the orphan part will end up on one of the magnets.

Not a bad idea. Not entirely practical in my situation but a variation of that: a magnet on a stick - might be a good idea.
I lost a tiny washer today so it sounds even better now.

[Dale]

Peter, your lab, and my proposed are almost identical. Mine got boosted to 8'6'' by 10'10''. If I assume
your desks are against the walls, how far from the walls are the fixtures? I'm guessing if I center the fixture
between me and the edge of a 12'' deep shelf there would be shadowless light on the whole 24'' desk. In other
words, 18'' from the wall.
Since my ceiling is 9' I am considering a pair of 4' dual tube fluorescents, but only over the 8 foot wall of 3 scopes.
The other 8' wall has a 5' computer desk placed to the side. A single 4' dual tube 18'' from the wall, and centered
over the desk. The remaining space of the 10' walls are all for bookshelves and drawers, and that lighting is undecided.
Oh, and all the fixtures are diffused. If each 10' wall got a 4' dual tube light, and I felt I needed more, I would have
the junction already in place. Problem solved.
Dale

[Oktagon]

Boy, you are keeping me busy. Spending my 74th birthday online!
My surplus chair is so bad, an ergo height for the desk is 24", think I will get a new chair. My Nikon,
due shortly, is an Eclipse E600, the inverted is a Biostar. Your ICM must be the 405? What a cool
looking scope.
When I mentioned felt pads it was quickly mentioned that I should use rubber for vibration iso-
lation. I do intend to do a lot of photography, but I don't expect a lot of vibration.
I will mount the UV lamp right next to the IsoGel dispenser. Mayo tray, yes, didn't know they
had their own name.
Dale

Dale, yes, ICM-405. It is a cool scope with allot of options. Ergonomics is good, but strange. It is unlike any other inverted scope, except it's cusins AM-35 and Axiovert 10, 35 etc. I think Zeiss was testing a concept with these scopes, and then moved to a more conventional inverted design.
Your E600 is a very nice scope. I've used them for years at work, and they are workhorses in many labs. Excellent image quality, great ergonomics and very easy on the eyes.

As far as felt pads vs rubber, it goes both ways. Felt is almost as vibration-absorbent and allows you to slide heavy scope on the bench, which is why I opted for it. It does need to be replaced about every 6 months or so.
Also, if you are planning to use microtome in your lab, I suggest heaving a shop vac to clean shavings from around your work area.

[Peter]

If I assume your desks are against the walls, how far from the walls are the fixtures? I'm guessing if I center the fixture between me and the edge of a 12'' deep shelf there would be shadowless light on the whole 24'' desk. In other words, 18'' from the wall.
Since my ceiling is 9' I am considering a pair of 4' dual tube fluorescents, but only over the 8 foot wall of 3 scopes.
The other 8' wall has a 5' computer desk placed to the side. A single 4' dual tube 18'' from the wall, and centered over the desk. The remaining space of the 10' walls are all for bookshelves and drawers, and that lighting is undecided.
Dale

Hi Dale,
My benches are fixed to the walls, the fluorescent tubes are approximately two inches from the walls. There are no shelves above bench height. My room has an eight foot stud.
Peter.

[Dale]

Our builder called today, we meet Tuesday to incorporate all our likes and dislikes, and get a price. I asked
him about the heat pump filters, he said they were HEPA, and expensive, but we get a box of 12. Hopefully
one filter on the intake will suffice.
Dale

[75RR]

Would be interesting to see a plan of the Lab, even a scan of a rough sketch would do.

[Dale]

What format does Microbe Hunter allow? Could not find anything.
Dale

[75RR]

What format does Microbe Hunter allow? Could not find anything.

I know microbehunter does not do pdfs. As to a list of what it does permit I am not sure either.
Whatever Photobucket or its equivalent allows I suppose.
Alternatively a link through Dropbox would do.

[Dale]

Details not on plan are: one piece linoleum floor, multiple rows of 10'' shelving around 3 walls, rubber covebase. Not sure
how we will vent heat from room, or best door sill/threshold. I am toying with having groups of fixtures on their own switch.
Meeting with builder tomorrow, but little details can be made next year. What do you think?

[75RR]

Thought you were going to have a table/bench under the window?
You could put a wet table with a sink there. Good place to keep sample jars.