American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

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einman
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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#31 Post by einman » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:33 pm

Really? Well back to the AO 20 and camera attachments.

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#32 Post by einman » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:59 am

Okay. Continuing on with the thread as intended. Here is an AO20 I have been working on/rebuilding. I am using an AO110 trinocular head with an AO teaching attachment which was designed to accept another head. However, with the aid of a rafcamera adapter, the same one used on my AO21 DIC scope, I am able to attach the camera directly. This option does not show any vignetting and does not require the use of a 200mm lens as described by Apochronaut.

In fact this option projects an image, albeit not parfocal, nearly equivalent to what is seen in the eyepieces. The lever for switching to the trinocular view on the head touches the camera but is still functional. It could use a little bit of "trimming".

Image
Image

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charlie
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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#33 Post by charlie » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:11 am

What size spacer do you need Everett? I ended up with 92 extra 1" ID thin washers if that helps. :-)
adapter - 1024.jpg
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Charles
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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#34 Post by Charles » Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:39 am

Charlie,

You can adjust the height on that Zeiss photo tube and don't need those spacers. The tube has a helical screw fitting. You loosen the large Allen screw and twist the upper portion of the tube to the height you need it.

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75RR
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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#35 Post by 75RR » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:28 pm

Agree, should have a 10mm range. Sorry einman!
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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#36 Post by apochronaut » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:52 pm

einman wrote:Okay. Continuing on with the thread as intended. Here is an AO20 I have been working on/rebuilding. I am using an AO110 trinocular head with an AO teaching attachment which was designed to accept another head. However, with the aid of a rafcamera adapter, the same one used on my AO21 DIC scope, I am able to attach the camera directly. This option does not show any vignetting and does not require the use of a 200mm lens as described by Apochronaut.

In fact this option projects an image, albeit not parfocal, nearly equivalent to what is seen in the eyepieces. The lever for switching to the trinocular view on the head touches the camera but is still functional. It could use a little bit of "trimming".

Image
Image
Using a 200mm lens , Everett, takes the camera up and away from the head, is parfocal, and gives a larger f.o.v. than the eyepieces see, so there is a larger image to crop from. The adapter is still readily available from Raf and the lens is only about 50.00. Why would you want to cramp everything around the head, where you can't even move the prism lever and not have a parfocal image?

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#37 Post by charlie » Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:53 pm

Charles wrote:Charlie,

You can adjust the height on that Zeiss photo tube and don't need those spacers. The tube has a helical screw fitting. You loosen the large Allen screw and twist the upper portion of the tube to the height you need it.
Why is it that I must always learn the easy way AFTER I have learned the hard way? :roll:

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#38 Post by Charles » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:12 pm

apochronaut wrote: Using a 200mm lens , Everett, takes the camera up and away from the head, is parfocal, and gives a larger f.o.v. than the eyepieces see, so there is a larger image to crop from. The adapter is still readily available from Raf and the lens is only about 50.00. Why would you want to cramp everything around the head, where you can't even move the prism lever and not have a parfocal image?
Why even use a trinocular head in that setup? Use a binocular head and you don't need to worry about the lever. I'm just being picky. :)

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#39 Post by apochronaut » Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:20 pm

Theoretically you don't, which is one of the attractions but you do need the teaching attachment. The later teaching attachments , which are square and don't exactly match the older grey microscopes have a larger potential field and a better image.
One thing that confuses me and I can't figure out why this is, is why does the right angled teaching attachment cause vignetting with your sensor , Everett and the parallel one doesn't? I don't have the same parallel attachment to make a comparison but I have newer parallel models. I would have thought that the two should be equivalent but maybe they aren't.

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#40 Post by einman » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:42 pm

In response to Charles why have a trinocular head? That is what I had available--- for one. The other would be theoretically you could have video running and take occasional snapshots if you wanted. Though most modern cameras have that capability.

In response to Apochronaut I was thinking exactly the same thing. I am not versed in such things. However a few observations:

The right angle teaching attachment has a shorter optical distance to the camera then does this one AO 1117. <---This appears the most likely reason for the lack of vignetting.
Also the Size of the opening from which the image is being projected to the camera is larger on this attachment vs the right angle one.<--not significant enough

I am curious as to difference in this attachment vs the ones you have Apochronaut. I will post photos later tonight showing the differences. The opening is 21.77mm for AO cat 1117 teaching attachment

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#41 Post by einman » Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:10 am

It was brought to my attention that the teaching attachment cat 1117 has a magnification factor of 1.25X which could also explain the lack of vignetting. I have not yet confirmed that nor can I find reference to it in any of my catalogs. I will, however, confirm it when finalizing the set-up of the competed AO20 scope which is intended to be set up for darkfield.

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#42 Post by Microworldofgems » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:39 pm

Hi Einman, could you advise me as to where you got the adapter for the canon camera to AO shutter assembly? I also have an AO DIC (episcopacy scope and am desperately looking for additional DIC prisms. I only have a 10x. Do you know where I might be able to find those as well?
einman wrote:In an earlier string I posted photos of my model AO21 with DIC. Originally I was using the trinocular tube with an adapter to mount my Canon T3i. However I now have three options.

Option#1 Utilizes the AO Cat#1044 photo tube. as seen in the photo below:

Image

I then attach a camera adapter as pictured below to the trinocular tube #1044.

Image

This adapter allows you to insert a photo eyepiece inside eliminating vignetting etc. The picture is the adapter attached to an Olympus IM trinoc. It is quite practical and will work on any 23.2mm trinoc tube. The Canon EOS is then attached using an M42 adaoter.

Option #2 involves using an AO teaching beam splitter between the head and body. This allows for the addition of another head or with an adapter, the Canon EOS T3I as shown below:

Image

Both options give excellent photos, Option #1 and #2 can be combined with a video camera mounted on one and the still camera on the other!

Option #3 entails using an AO cat #1191 Expostar shutter assembly. I gutted the "shutter" and "photocell" leaving the lens assembly intact. This allows for a mag choice of 2.8X to 5X eliminating the need for a photo eyepiece. This set up also requires an Adapter to mount the EOS T3I.

Image


The adapter USED IN OPTION #2 and #3 were purchased from Rafcamera. Apo mentioned these adapter on another thread. I want to thank him as I was in the process of asking RAF to make them for me when it turns out he already had them for sale on E-bay.

The versatility of the AO scope is exemplified here! AO was, despite what many may think, an innovative American company. It is constantly underrated by amateur hobbyists drifting towards the German makes and/or newer cheaper quality ( but not price) Chinese scopes.

Here is a pic with both option#2 and #3.

Image

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#43 Post by apochronaut » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:21 pm

I can probably help, in lieu of the person you were addressing the question to. He hasn't been around for a while.
The shutter assembly has a 39.7mm dovetail, is it not? . It is actually 1 9/16" because AO worked in inches for most of it's history but the adapters are spec'd in mm, because they were made in Russia.
About 4 years ago, I contacted Rafi ( Raf camera) about getting some custom adapters made for my AO stuff, because their inch sized dovetails and photo part dimensions, left them out of the loop as far as off the shelf Chinese parts were concerned. He sent me some drawings very quickly and had several adapters produced in about 3 more months. There are 4, 39.7mm dovetail adapters. Two of them were made to fit the filter threads of a couple of specific camera lenses, that could be used for microphotography. One other is a direct 39.7mm to Sony E-mount, and one is 39.7mm to M42x1.
Either of the latter could work for you. You can adapt the E-mount to Canon, with off the shelf parts but probably the 39.7mm to M42x1 is the best for you to build up on. M42x1 to Canon is easy to find but you might need some extension to parfocalize.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/39-7mm-microsco ... SwX61ZEISB

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#44 Post by Microworldofgems » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:20 pm

Thanks for the advice! I recently bought a 42mm dovetail to t-mount adapter and mounted it to my drill press and machined down the dovetail till it fit. So the camera is mounted and optical performance of the expo star unit is really excellent.

Now, does anyone have a clue where I can get additional DIC prisms for the AO series 10/20 scopes? I only have the matching prism for the 10x and would love to find any other one.

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#45 Post by apochronaut » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:55 pm

The only ones I have seen have still been attached to microscopes. They also made a DIC Diastar. I can't see any reason that they would not have used the same prisms for it. Reportedly, there were very few series 10/20 DIC units sold and the Diastar DIC is quite rare too, so prisms that have been relieved of their original duties are probably uncommon or worse.

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#46 Post by Microworldofgems » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:03 pm

Thanks for the reply....that is more of less what I feared.

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#47 Post by SebMichel » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:24 am

Hello Einman,

Just purchased a AO 110 trinocular microscope and although I realize this post started many years ago, I was hoping to see more details on your option #3 with 1191 Expostar, unfortunately I cannot see the original pictures of the end result. This is a project for my son to be able to attach my canon 5D II or eventually a camera to have live view on a computer.

Thanks in advance for any help

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#48 Post by einman » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:53 am

Hello Sebmichael,
I just happened to take a quick look at the forum tonight and caught your message. My postings were made quite some time ago and as my interests have grown quite varied over the years I do not spend as much time exploring microscopy as I once did, preferring the practical application. I generally focus my attention on my Leitz Diaplan and/or various stereo scopes having sold the AO21 DIC sometime ago.

Apochromat is probably the most knowledgeable of the AO line of microscopes. He could probably suggest the quickest route to adapting a DSLR as he has been doing some microphotography these days.

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#49 Post by Microworldofgems » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:40 am

Hi Einman, do you have any clue where someone could find a 20x DIC upper prism for the AO scope? I have an epi DIC unit, but only have the 10x prism. Would love to find others to complete a full set.

Thanks

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#50 Post by PeteM » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:58 am

Pretty sure that Einman's AO21 setup was for transmitted DIC. It would have used a single sliding prism up top and separate prisms in the condenser.

I'm not familiar with A.O. epi DIC systems with separate prisms above epi objectives. Phil might know. And I'd be interested to see a picture of your A.O. epi DIC setup.

However, you might try Olympus DIC prisms of the MPlan or NeoPlan eras. These fit above objectives and are sometimes offered at reasonable (sub $100) prices. Be a crap shoot, though, to know if one of the available prisms (5x, 10x, 20x, 40x, 50x etc.) would match up reasonably well.

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#51 Post by apochronaut » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:53 pm

Bits and pieces have shown up on ebay. Most recently an entire set of prism sliders. There were 10X, 20X and 40X. The same sliders used for the 21.
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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#52 Post by Microworldofgems » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:11 pm

This is exactly my scope pictured above in the orange manual. Just wish I could find more prisms. I never saw the set on eBay unfortunately although I have searches saved for such things. Too bad I missed that set. If anyone get a line on a set of prisms I would appreciate if anyone would let me know. Thanks very much!

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#53 Post by PeteM » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:01 pm

apochronaut wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:53 pm
Bits and pieces have shown up on ebay. Most recently an entire set of prism sliders. There were 10X, 20X and 40X. The same sliders used for the 21.
Phil, any idea of when A.O. went from individual 10x, 20x, etc. sliders for transmitted DIC and the single slider above the objectives? I have one of the the single DIC sliders (covering all magnifications from 10x to 100x) and it seems to be AO H21 era?

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#54 Post by Microworldofgems » Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:17 am

Pete, Can you post a photo of your slider ?

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#55 Post by apochronaut » Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:50 pm

PeteM wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:01 pm
apochronaut wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:53 pm
Bits and pieces have shown up on ebay. Most recently an entire set of prism sliders. There were 10X, 20X and 40X. The same sliders used for the 21.
Sorry. I meant the same prisms but the DICV had only 3.
They used a cutout series 10/20 nosepiece on the 410 for some kind of PlasDIC, with a universal slider. Is that what you have?
The 21 had 4 prisms substage one above in a cutout nosepiece, which moves laterally.

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#56 Post by PeteM » Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:27 pm

Microworldofgems wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:17 am
Pete, Can you post a photo of your slider ?
Similar to the one on this microscope, but older and incorporated in a small four hole, gray painted, A.O. nosepiece (meant for an earlier generation A.O. H21 microscope): https://www.ebay.com/itm/Reichert-Diast ... SwJI9ZnJa-

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Re: American Optical DIC with Canon T3I multiple set-up options

#57 Post by apochronaut » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:35 am

AO repurposed some of those old cutout nosepieces on 410s....painted them an appropriate colour. They actually did a more thorough job on the 420, with a modern 6 hole nospiece, carrying a slider channel.

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