Zeiss Jena LG

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Nance
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Zeiss Jena LG

#1 Post by Nance » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:25 pm

MyZeissLU.jpg
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Always wanted to get into the science, found some good reasons to indulge - and received the final calling when I noticed this lovely Zeiss smiling back at me - and found it to be in excellent condition. I have since cleaned, oiled and inspected - and have been spending my every conscious hour (almost) totally engrossed in information gathering... anyone with any ideas of retrofitting an effective lighting system for phase contrast and darkfield at higher mags - your ideas are more than welcome. regards, Nance
Last edited by Nance on Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KurtM
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Re: a newbie with a pre-wwII Zeiss Jena LU

#2 Post by KurtM » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:52 am

Nice scope! So what were the good reasons to indulge? And where did you find your Zeiss, sounds like in an antique shop or something?

Sounds like you're well on your way to getting good lighting for it, the Ortho Illuminator, and/or No. 735 lamp, are both excellent. The Ortho Illuminator is especially easy to set up and use. The 735 can be more fun, if you like investigating the old fashioned, original ways things were done. It can be tricky setting up true Kohler ilumination with such a stand-alone lamp, but once you get there you'll understand how it works better than anyone.

And yes, I have one of each, and am a fan of both. Found a lovely old Spencer Model 13 in an antiques shop some years ago, then got a No. 735 lamp and learned (was taught - thanks gain Jim!) how to use it, and together they reignited/reinvigorated my love for microscopy.
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email: ngc704(at)aol(dot)com
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Nance
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Re: a newbie with a pre-wwII Zeiss Jena LU

#3 Post by Nance » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:07 am

funny that ! those are the two systems I am working on acquiring... especially the ortho-illuminator. I have somewhat of a background in manual photography systems, lenses, enlargers and processing... and I think, for now, I'd like to forego developing the art of manually redirecting reflected light rays. but I have a query out there for a lovely specimen of the AO735 as well - just because it's cool.

and funny that! - to hear from you yourself - the infamous ever-more confirmed bachelor with swamp ponds in his abode... lol. Thank God for entertaining writers like yourself when one is immersed in trying to keep a head above water while swimming in the technical specs of a new field of study. I think I've read everything you've posted on the net. and I did note that monster ortho-illuminator sitting on your desk in a photo - confirming even more my choice.

The Zeiss somehow materialized in the margins of an unrelated ebay wandering and my mind has been kidnapped since. I had about a week to do some research and confirm before the auction ended. No serious buyers were jumping into the fray. I almost got it for $140, but i (kindly?) left 20 seconds for others to raise their high bids - they nickeled and dimed at my high bid - driving my price up to $185. still good.

my personal motivations... some simple biological studies - to further confirm some health topics I have been studying and practicing for several years now. and also... all through my formal education days, I avoided biology because I could never bring myself to dissect a live frog - lol... I still won't, but I have some education to catch up on. I still feel kinda bad about that ant I taped down to a slide for a first run on the cleaned Zeiss.

Keep posting and keep us laughing. regards, N.

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Re: a newbie with a pre-wwII Zeiss Jena LU

#4 Post by MicroBob » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:47 pm

I'm not shure whether this is a LU or LG. I only know the LG and it is a really nice microscope to use today. The ergonomics are good and the craftmanship is second to none. Nowadays you would be fired immediately when you spent time on designing an instrument with this amount of precision engineering.
If you need more informations I can send you some hints and links to old documents.

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Re: Zeiss Jena LG

#5 Post by Nance » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:47 pm

Right you ARE ! I re-consulted the 1937 catalog - it's surely the LG (medium routine). The LU (modern research) and and especially the LW (large routine) are similar, but I think larger and came with a mahogany wood case, not just 'wood'. :)

I would love any info you have on hand regarding the scope. I haven't found too much info on what attachments will fit it. but sure are a lot of them in the photos in the catalog. Any info on compatibility with later models like the Ng?

yes, I picked up an Olympus KHC as well, it is like driving a pinto compared to a cadillac. One can sense easily that the workmanship could not be much improved upon. The condition that the parts have maintained confirms. and it sure is lovely to look at as well. :)

Thanks again for any info you can send - I have only what was most obviously pertinent from science-info.net. N

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Re: Zeiss Jena LG

#6 Post by MicroBob » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:55 pm

Hi Nance,

I think the LU looked very similar but was bigger and heavier. It was the reserch model of the time with interchangeable table and condensor block. The LG is vey common, the LU not.
The LG was a sensation when it appeared on the market on 1934. The usual high quality microscope of the time had its fine focussing positioned very high and the whole microscope had to be inclined to avoid looking straight down into it. The LG was much more ergonomic (and is still today, especially if you are not tall), it featured exchangeable revolver nosepieces (plenty on the market, 4 and 5 holes, compatible with NG and NG and up to the ergaval, laboval, amplival series). The head was mounted in a standardized dovetail ring. The coarse focus moved the arm, the fine focus the table. And all this in 1934!
It really is a very nice microscope, so there is a reason why it has been made so often and long. It still is a good buy today and there are many parts for it on the market.
It is among the last stands that was intended to be positioned so its arm faces your tommy. Illumination is best with a separate Köhler lamp that can be connected to the foot with an Y-formed aluminium part. The condensor awaits a light source about 20 cm from the foot so placing a lamp betreen the feet is not ideal.
It is 160mm tube length, the oculars pick up the image 13mm down the tube. The objectives were ca. 33mm, LOMO objectives are similar copies but not quite parfocal. Later Carl Zeiss Jena objectives of the 160mm era had a lenght of 45mm. I never tried it but hey probably fit.
Phase contrast components are availabe and also cardioid darkfield condensers. Binocular heads are not problem, also monocular photo heads.

If you are prepared the stress google translator a fair bit I can give you links to many documents in german language round about this scope.

Bob

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Nance
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Re: Zeiss Jena LG

#7 Post by Nance » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:18 am

[I can give you links to many documents in german language round about this scope.]

yah, send me those links. I have a friend and neighbor that hails from that region and can do some translating for me ... and was born about the same year as this Zeiss. He was in awe to see it - sparked up a swelling of national pride. but google translate? oh, that would be a painful exercise. :(

It came with a monocular and binocular.

yah, Zeiss came out with these L models around '33 and going strong until about '38 - when most likely all production was directed toward the war effort until they finally ran out of materials... I wonder how long it was before they got things organized again... w/the allies fighting over the engineers - and Russia fighting w/W.Germany over the means of production. Is it about '52 when the Ng came out?

Thanks for all the info above too

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Re: Zeiss Jena LG

#8 Post by Micro-Bob » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:14 pm

You can find many Zeiss Jena documents and some Zeiss West documents here:
http://www.mikroskop-online.de/Zeiss%20Jena%20BDA.htm

The history of Carl Zeiss company is probably among the most exciting company histories of all time.
From what I remember from reading about it, Jena was to go to the russians when the war would be won. The americans reached Jena first and had a couple of month there on their own. Agains the contracts with the russians they "invited" all leading scientific and management personnel to come to the west with family, dog and furniture. They started to remove machines and workshop masters but this was stopped suddenly. So Zeiss was parted into about 100 scientists and managers in the west and some thousand craftsmen and masters in the east. It is really remarkable that both companies were so successful afterwards.
The russians took all machines and plans, carried them carefully to Leningrad and Kiew and made their Zeiss-copies of cameras and microscopes on them.
I think the LG was made until about 1970 and the NG and NF were introduced in the late 50s (not shure).

By the way: I just today found out that the very first instrument Carl Zeiss ever made was for Hermann Schacht, a biologist from Hamburg who was a member of our "Naturwissenschaftlicher Verein Hamburg", founded in 1837 that I am a member of. :shock: Funny bit of history! :lol:

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Re: Zeiss Jena LG

#9 Post by Nance » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:35 pm

thanks for the link. and yes, I love the history ! It's kinda sad that the highly skilled engineers, due to their ability, were shuffled around like machines - with no freedom to decide where they would live and work.

Do you have the link handy to the history site that explained the story on the "Zeiss Germany" markings and the Aus Jena's. It also had a history and jpg of all the logo's - and the story behind that legal battle. I can't seem to locate again. The site was plainly designed and had a tan background on the text. Thanks, N.

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Re: Zeiss Jena LG

#10 Post by MicroBob » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:59 pm

Hi Nance,
I'm sorry, but I don't remember seeing the site you describe.
What I know is that east german Zeiss products were sold in west Germany as "aus Jena". Zeiss Oberkochen (West) did the same with the name "Opton".

There is a funny story about the americans reaching Jena in WW II:
It wasn't "the americans" it was just one american. This soldier arrived alone on foot and asked to be led to senior managment personnel. He then presented a form on which the Zeiss manager was supposed to sign that this person was the first american soldier to reach Jena. It was his hobby to be the first to reach german cities! Couldn't everybody in this war have found such a harmless ambition!

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Re: Zeiss Jena LG

#11 Post by Nance » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:27 pm

wow, where did you find that story? I bet that guy had some stories to tell. I had two GI uncles in the war, the last one just moved on to the other world - he would have loved that story. When I come across that site, I will send you the link. It also had the information of how many bombs dropped on Jena during the war and the casualties.

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Re: Zeiss Jena LG

#12 Post by Nance » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:34 pm

Hey Microbob: what the heck is this? an early version of the inverted microscope ?
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Re: Zeiss Jena LG

#13 Post by apochronaut » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:54 pm

MicroBob wrote:Hi Nance,
I'm sorry, but I don't remember seeing the site you describe.
What I know is that east german Zeiss products were sold in west Germany as "aus Jena". Zeiss Oberkochen (West) did the same with the name "Opton".

There is a funny story about the americans reaching Jena in WW II:
It wasn't "the americans" it was just one american. This soldier arrived alone on foot and asked to be led to senior managment personnel. He then presented a form on which the Zeiss manager was supposed to sign that this person was the first american soldier to reach Jena. It was his hobby to be the first to reach german cities! Couldn't everybody in this war have found such a harmless ambition!
Except that the Russians kidnapped half of the Zeiss staff and ferried tons of tooling and designs off to Russia. I can just see him holding up his hand and hear his protests" but, but, but, I was here first".

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Re: Zeiss Jena LG

#14 Post by charlie g » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:17 pm

Fantastic instrument you share with us, Nance, thanks! https://greenmicroscope.wordpress.com/2 ... s-wissens/ should give the moments at end of WWII when the microscopy firm was/ransacked, major workers forced to designated countries. The link nested in Peter Werners comment also details the history of this variation on US 'operation paper clip' saga.

I love the graceful and quite organic curves of these stands. My Reichert/Austria Biozet has similar curves, similar substage attachable field illuminator. Charlie Guevara hopr my link works.

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Re: Zeiss Jena LG

#15 Post by MicroBob » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:06 pm

The story with the single soldier reaching the Zeiss works is from the book "Nur der Name war geblieben" by Armin Hermann. It is a very interesting book, good to read and not boring (if you like books like this...) The author (a west German like me) seems to be somewhat west german-biased. I could imagine that the book would be even better if written from a completely neutral stand point. I don't know whether it has been translated to english.

As far as I know the russians did an unexpectedly good job with the moving of the Zeiss works while having enough work with the kidnapping of the workers. This was probably one of the most difficult moving project on the whole world. They must have been well prepared and have sent their best personell for this job. In Russia they carried on the production of the extremely complex contax rangefinder cameras until the 1980s. A good example of Kiew camera works quite well and is finished quite nicely. I guess that they still today use some of the equipment the carried away after 1945.
For me it is really impressive that Zeiss in Jena was able to build up a production from new under these difficult circumstances. When I compare post war Zeiss Jena and Zeiss Oberkochen microscopes I would say that in Jena the craftmanship was better while in Oberkochen they were more innovative. This fits to the people that were available at each place.

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Re: Zeiss Jena LG

#16 Post by Nance » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:56 pm

wow, thanks microbob and charlie g. for the history leads... it really adds to the appreciation of the microscope, and I love the personal side of historical accounts.

My AO ortho-illuminator is 'out for delivery' today... so I can get involved in checking the parfocality of my objectives soon. I might just have to go hunt down the mailman in the hood this morning.

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