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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:44 am 
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I won the auction for a used Zeiss Fluorescence microscope on ebay yesterday. Scheduled delivery for Friday. I'm guessing it's a Zeiss Standard Trinocular Fluorescence scope. I'm not sure if everything is included to turn it on, I think I probably also need a Model 1100 120VAC 60Hz power supply?

I think I got a pretty good deal, but i'm not really sure as the auction is VERY SLIM on details (there are none!). The word microscope only appears in the auction once, in the title and is misspelled "micrscope".

The entirety of the description was:
"Avery nice set up. Parts are worth several times the start. Any questions please ask."

Used Zeiss Fluoro Scope
(photos in case the above ebay auction link dies:)
https://imgur.com/tds7LGR
https://imgur.com/MAyz6DR
https://imgur.com/iopxOsT
https://imgur.com/MWhSbRL
https://imgur.com/YahbO8M
https://imgur.com/BldvSVm
https://imgur.com/kVO2g5J
https://imgur.com/7GC6cIx
https://imgur.com/CFZG7Da
https://imgur.com/1FSlHQ7
https://imgur.com/a8m1wEt

There are no close up photos of the base, and no photos of the fluorescent filter side of the unit so I'm kind of flying blind here. I figured for $600; even if the scope turns out to be junk, I can probably recoup most of my investment by selling the parts, right?

Any idea if I got a good deal or am I overlooking something obvious?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:27 am 
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Welcome to the forum.

Hard to say if you got a good deal or not.

If it turns out to be junk (for example, delaminated optics, missing fluorescence filter/cube, no phase condenser, seized/broken focus drive), you won't be able to recover much of your investment. Simply return it back to seller under "item not as described" (even though seller does not accept return, "item not as described" is still covered by eBay).

Seller listed that scope as " used" (meaning fully functional). Technically, any defect that makes the scope not fully functional will allow you to return it and get full refund. eBay / Paypal almost always side with buyer in that kind of disputes.

So check the scope carefully, when it arrives. Best of luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:52 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Flip side is that if the optics and stand are in good shape, it will be a very nice scope.

Does seem to have one or more phase contrast objectives -- not sure if it has the condenser. However, those are not too hard to find.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:47 am 
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It looks to be in pristine condition

As mentioned above you will need to examine it carefully when it arrives. If there are no problems then I would say it was a good buy.

I recommend removing the Fluorescence attachments and using the microscope without them until you have some more experience.

You will find a small screw at the base of both the head and the Fluorescence cube under it.

First remove the head by loosening its screw by several turns and push towards it gently.

Then do the same for the Fluorescence cube.

To reattach the head reverse the procedure.

See video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui3Sw_tronE



As mentioned it does not seem to have a Phase condenser but they are easy to find.

Show us a photo of the condenser.

You will need a power supply for the 12v 60w lamp housing, again they are readily available.

(This one will power the 12v 60w tungsten and a 12v 100w halogen should you decide to upgrade at some point: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carl-Zeiss-Mic ... :rk:8:pf:0 )

Here is an article that will help you to spot any delamination in the objectives or the eyepieces:

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/ind ... delam.html


You do not mention how much experience you have with microscopes. Do you have any?

EDIT: Just seen your post in the Introduce yourself section: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6921

I think you will like the Zeiss Standards

_________________
Zeiss Standard WL & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)


Last edited by 75RR on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:42 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:30 am 
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Posts: 1704
Congratulations!

My feeling is that you got a very good bargain - provided that the stand and head are in good mechanical condition.

For observing aquatic creatures, phase contrast is a significant benefit. It seems that the 16X and 40X objectives on your scope are PC; these magnifications are very useful. Uusing a sterescope, it will be straight forward to inspect the objectives for faults. My own 16X/0.40 Neofluar Ph2 is badly delaminated, yet it is usable.

Some points based on personal experience - probably known to one and all but good to remember:

Since fluorescence accessories have much evolved and improved, the Zeiss Standard is not as convenient and flexible as the Axioskope, fluorescence-wise. The infinity optics of the Axio are also better (for fluorescence) than the older 160mm optics. Regarding a second-hand Zeiss Standard, I would check the cube filters and other excitation filters, since the coating on old interference filters is often worn out. Yet they can be individually replaced with newer filters.

Missing in your setup, I think, is the fluorescence power supply for the 100W HBO lamp house. Perhaps inquire about it with the seller, if the PS has been omitted from the photos on the sale list; such power supplies are only useful in conjunction with the HBO lamphouse.

There are specific safety rules for handling these high pressure Hg/Xe bulbs, I believe you have that experience.

I would be concerned about the heat these lamps create, and insert a heat filter (e.g. Schott KG3/KG5) between the collimated beam and the next element in the optical path.

Another very useful gadget would be a mechanical or electromechanical shutter (e.g. from Ludl, USA) in the optical path, to block off the light when you do not use it, since frequent turn-on/turn-off cycles shorten the lifetime of these Hg or Xenon lamps considerably.
Enjoy!

Edit: there are powerful LED light sources for fluorescence microscopy. There are advantages of LEDs over the HG/Xe lamps, and vice versa. Although complete commercial LED lamps for fluorescence microscopy are expensive, I believe there are LED light sources made for epi-illumination on old microscopes, for hobby use. The main requirement is very bright illumination, so a 10W LED, or even a 20W would be inadequate (IMO), but higher intensity LEDs might provide sufficient excitation, even if not as intense as a 100W Hg or 75W Xe HBO lamp. And the advantage in this case is that a specific power supply for HBO is not required.

_________________
Zeiss Standard GFL+Canon EOS-M10, Olympus VMZ stereo


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:30 pm 
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Posts: 14
zzffnn wrote:
Welcome to the forum.
If it turns out to be junk (for example, delaminated optics, missing fluorescence filter/cube, no phase condenser, seized/broken focus drive), you won't be able to recover much of your investment. Simply return it back to seller under "item not as described" (even though seller does not accept return, "item not as described" is still covered by eBay).

Seller listed that scope as " used" (meaning fully functional). Technically, any defect that makes the scope not fully functional will allow you to return it and get full refund. eBay / Paypal almost always side with buyer in that kind of disputes.

Thanks for the advice - I hadn't really considered the distinction between 'used' and 'for parts' implying that a used version should still function and as a buyer i'm guaranteed as such when I win the auction. Will definitely keep that in consideration if it arrives in non-functioning condition.


PeteM wrote:
Does seem to have one or more phase contrast objectives -- not sure if it has the condenser. However, those are not too hard to find.

Yeah, the only information about the condenser is that the auction author doesn't know how to spell: Auction Title: "ZEISS FLUORO CONDENSOR BINOCULAR PHOTO MICRSCOPE excellent condition". I'm hoping that's a good thing in that he just doesn't know what he has... but we'll see.
75RR wrote:
I recommend removing the Fluorescence attachments and using the microscope without them until you have some more experience.

As mentioned it does not seem to have a Phase condenser but they are easy to find.
Show us a photo of the condenser.

You will need a power supply for the 12v 60w lamp housing, again they are readily available.

Here is an article that will help you to spot any delamination in the objectives or the eyepieces:

You do not mention how much experience you have with microscopes. Do you have any?

I'll probably keep the fluorescence attachments on (assuming they are what I need correct filters etc) given the fact one of the things i'm most interest in taking pictures of are calcofluor & DAPI stained dinoflagellates.
I'm definitely eager to find out what kind of condenser is included and will certainly take copious photos when it arrives on friday.
I appreciate the power supply link, that will narrow down my searching efforts.

I have alot of experience taking phase-contrast / fluorescence photos of aquatic protists from a decade and a half spent in Academic labs, mostly using other people's nice fancy Zeiss microscopes (see my intro thread that I see you've already found). I've only owned one compound scope though (Wesco CX-RII), and have never built my own or performed any maintenance beyond changing arc lamp bulbs on an Axioskop. I've been out of Academia for almost 7 years now and i'm really starting to miss the microscopy, hence the renewed interest in acquiring my own high end scope. I don't have any experience with delamination so your link will be a huge help to me.

This website has been an excellent resource so far, thanks for contributing!


Hobbyst46 wrote:
My feeling is that you got a very good bargain - provided that the stand and head are in good mechanical condition.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Hobbyst46 wrote:
Since fluorescence accessories have much evolved and improved, the Zeiss Standard is not as convenient and flexible as the Axioskope, fluorescence-wise. The infinity optics of the Axio are also better (for fluorescence) than the older 160mm optics. Regarding a second-hand Zeiss Standard, I would check the cube filters and other excitation filters, since the coating on old interference filters is often worn out. Yet they can be individually replaced with newer filters.

Missing in your setup, I think, is the fluorescence power supply for the 100W HBO lamp house. Perhaps inquire about it with the seller, if the PS has been omitted from the photos on the sale list; such power supplies are only useful in conjunction with the HBO lamphouse.

There are specific safety rules for handling these high pressure Hg/Xe bulbs, I believe you have that experience.

I would be concerned about the heat these lamps create, and insert a heat filter (e.g. Schott KG3/KG5) between the collimated beam and the next element in the optical path.

Another very useful gadget would be a mechanical or electromechanical shutter (e.g. from Ludl, USA) in the optical path, to block off the light when you do not use it, since frequent turn-on/turn-off cycles shorten the lifetime of these Hg or Xenon lamps considerably.
Enjoy!

Edit: there are powerful LED light sources for fluorescence microscopy. There are advantages of LEDs over the HG/Xe lamps, and vice versa. Although complete commercial LED lamps for fluorescence microscopy are expensive, I believe there are LED light sources made for epi-illumination on old microscopes, for hobby use. The main requirement is very bright illumination, so a 10W LED, or even a 20W would be inadequate (IMO), but higher intensity LEDs might provide sufficient excitation, even if not as intense as a 100W Hg or 75W Xe HBO lamp. And the advantage in this case is that a specific power supply for HBO is not required.


Thank you for this! Very useful information for me to consider. I definitely want the infinity optics eventually and will outfit an axioskop over the coming months / years to fit my fluorescence needs. In the meantime, my ebay-itis got the best of me and I have what appears to be a Zeiss standard fluorescence scope on the way that looks to be in pretty good condition. Thanks for the HBO power supply info, I was thinking along those lines also, but my memory is hazy on how these things work.


Last edited by gconcepcion on Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:26 pm 
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Location: Germany, Karlsruhe
Hi,
I personally also was observing this item - but did not buy since shipment to Germany would be quite high and on top there is 30% toll and tax.
Please note that there is a very special Objective fitted: the Plan Neofluar 16/0.5
This is actually a fantastic objective worth itself maybe 300 USD. It is a water / oil immerion objective, but still can be used without immersio.
Excellent image and sharpness! Handicap is a bit the limited working distance, it is only 0.12 mm (or was it 0.09 mm?).

Also the Trino-Fototube itself is worth good money, sometimes you pay 300 USD just for this device. However I am not sure about the connecting tube (43 30 47) that shall connect to the camera. Own same Trinotube where I also needed to replace the 43 30 47 with the proper tube head.

_________________
sincerely Jochen
My microscopes: Zeiss inverse IM35, Zeiss Standard (RA, WL, Universal, Junior), Stemi III
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVio3U ... cg-Fm2su3w


Last edited by ImperatorRex on Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:55 pm 
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Location: Germany, Karlsruhe
Checked in my documents - looks the item 18 (43 30 47) is fitted, this is a TV connector piece.


Attachments:
Unbenannt.JPG
Unbenannt.JPG [ 30.48 KiB | Viewed 2181 times ]

_________________
sincerely Jochen
My microscopes: Zeiss inverse IM35, Zeiss Standard (RA, WL, Universal, Junior), Stemi III
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVio3U ... cg-Fm2su3w
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:10 pm 
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ImperatorRex wrote:
Hi, Please note that there is a very special Objective fitted: the Plan Neofluar 16/0.5
This is actually a fantastic objective worth itself maybe 300 USD. It is a water / oil immerion objective, but still can be used without immersio.
Excellent image and sharpness!

Sorry, my mistake, I thought it was the Neofluar Ph2 16X/0.40.
Question: how does an immersion-type objective perform dry, without immersion?

_________________
Zeiss Standard GFL+Canon EOS-M10, Olympus VMZ stereo


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:32 pm 
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The 16x/0.5 Planneofluar is a multi-Immersion objective - the one with the smallest magnification out of a range of such objectives. For convenience I also use the 16x/0.5 often without immersion and it actually still works well, a bit less "bright". Noted that without immersion the working distance gets even more reduced. Other objectives with higher magniffication do not work without immersion.
I have attached fotos and some more info I got from a Zeiss Product Catalog.


Attachments:
Unbenannt1.JPG
Unbenannt1.JPG [ 65.88 KiB | Viewed 2164 times ]
P1070687.JPG
P1070687.JPG [ 73.04 KiB | Viewed 2164 times ]

_________________
sincerely Jochen
My microscopes: Zeiss inverse IM35, Zeiss Standard (RA, WL, Universal, Junior), Stemi III
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVio3U ... cg-Fm2su3w
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:11 pm 
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Posts: 14
ImperatorRex wrote:
Hi,
I personally also was observing this item - but did not buy since shipment to Germany would be quite high and on top there is 30% toll and tax.
Please note that there is a very special Objective fitted: the Plan Neofluar 16/0.5
This is actually a fantastic objective worth itself maybe 300 USD. It is a water / oil immerion objective, but still can be used without immersio.
Excellent image and sharpness! Handicap is a bit the limited working distance, it is only 0.12 mm (or was it 0.09 mm?).

Also the Trino-Fototube itself is worth good money, sometimes you pay 300 USD just for this device. However I am not sure about the connecting tube (43 30 47) that shall connect to the camera. Own same Trinotube where I also needed to replace the 43 30 47 with the proper tube head.


It would seem weird for a German Citizen to be importing a Zeiss Scope back to the motherland from Pennsylvania, thanks for not bidding and letting me win it!

It was exactly that Fluar objective and the Trinotube that caught my eyes specifically so that makes me feel better knowing my intuition agrees with your informed sentiments. Hopefully de-lamination is not an issue when it arrives.

Thanks for the information!

I'll update this thread with better pictures when I get the delivery.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:42 pm 
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Location: Houston, Texas
Definitely check for delamination (which is common among old Zeiss optics). Hold objective, point its tip to oblique light source or sky without sun , examine from objective bottom and check for funny-looking layers of colors.

I apologize for overlooking that 16/0.5 objective as well; I should have zoomed in the photos more (I also mistakenly though it was a common 16/0.4, those eBay photos are too small for my eyes).

Multi - immersion objective would be fun. Though at NA of 0.5, objective is usually not picky about immersion media (even when there is none, as
ImperatorRex noted).


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:39 pm 
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gconcepcion wrote:
It would seem weird for a German Citizen to be importing a Zeiss Scope back to the motherland from Pennsylvania, thanks for not bidding and letting me win it!


You are welcomed gconcepcion :-)
It really depends: I certainly have bought more than 30 times ZEISS stuff from US ebay. Quite a huge variety of ZEISS stuff offered, often to a comparable low price if you compare it with ebay offerings in Germany. I wish to live in USA :-)
Some sellers will not ship outside US, in this case I also used a "forwarder service & address" in US.

_________________
sincerely Jochen
My microscopes: Zeiss inverse IM35, Zeiss Standard (RA, WL, Universal, Junior), Stemi III
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVio3U ... cg-Fm2su3w


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:48 pm 
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Posts: 14
Of course FEDEX rescheduled delivery for tomorrow and I leave for a business trip tomorrow morning...

Don't worry, OP will deliver. I won't forget to update w/ condition of the scope when I return end of next week and have had a chance to inspect it closely.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:29 pm 
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So, I've had a chance to do a once over on the microscope and am pretty happy so far. Although initially I was worried because the package was treated roughly during shipping as both lamp housings had become ripped/torn from the unit and the trinocular head was loose. There was minor cosmetic damage at the lamp housing attachment points from the damage, but fortunately nothing preventing use or any damaged optics.

Inspecting the trinocular head, it was loose because some of the internal screws had become loose, and there was dust on the inside:

Image
At first I was worried these were scratches, but after some polishing it cleaned up nicely:
Image

I inspected all of the objectives and they appear to be in excellent condition, no scratches and no delamination that I can see. There was some residual oil on some of them that needed to be cleaned with some ISO, but they cleaned up well and everything is in overall pretty decent shape.

Image

I ordered a retro-diode LED kit rather than a power source for the halogen lamp. Unfortunately the field diaphragm that came on the scope (46 70-58-9903) is incompatible with the kit and had to shell out another $20 for one that is.
In the meantime while I wait for the LED mounting hardware to arrive, I have it just loose in the base and have done some basic testing and everything appears to be working well!

Here is a 40X test photo of some spores from a mushroom I found growing outside yesterday. This was taken by just holding up my phone to the eyepiece so don't be too critical ;)
Image


Overall i'm super satisfied with the purchase. It's a pretty decent scope as it is, but still not exactly what I'm looking for so I'm thinking I might part it out to make some money to build the nicer newer scope with Infinity optics i've been thinking about for some time now. I could probably make alot of my money back just with the NEOFLUAR 16/0,50 objective (46 15 26). I see one with a buy-it-now price on the auction site for $1079. The problem is the whole scope turned out to be in much better condition than I originally hoped, so I'm having a hard time convincing myself to part with it...

I think this is how collections start? heh

Also, is it possible to get any information on the scope based on Serial Number? (sn:095855)

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:14 pm 
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Quote:
Although initially I was worried because the package was treated roughly during shipping as both lamp housings had become ripped/torn from the unit and the trinocular head was loose. There was minor cosmetic damage at the lamp housing attachment points from the damage, but fortunately nothing preventing use or any damaged optics.
If you are thinking of getting another one it is always worthwhile asking the seller to pack the removable parts separately.

Quote:
I ordered a retro-diode LED kit rather than a power source for the halogen lamp. Unfortunately the field diaphragm that came on the scope (46 70-58-9903) is incompatible with the kit and had to shell out another $20 for one that is.
Is this going to replace the field diaphragm housing unit?

Quote:
Also, is it possible to get any information on the scope based on Serial Number? (sn:095855)
Can't help with the serial number but the other numbers indicate it is a model 16

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5991

Image[/quote]

_________________
Zeiss Standard WL & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)


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