Should I get a new Motic BA400?

[roham]

Hi all.
After reading a lot of threads in this forum and watching YouTube videos, I think I’m ready to buy a microscope. I am totally a newbie when it comes to microscopes but not to macro/micro photography.
I have an opportunity to buy a brand new Motic BA400 With phase objectives for $700 locally.
Should I go for it? Or should I get a used Big Four microscope off eBay?
Like many beginners in getting overwhelmed for my first microscope purchase.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[roham]

Oh and forgot to mention that is has a trinocular head.

[PeteM]

If they're plan infinity phase objectives and the condenser is the rotating type ("Zernicke") that would be a good price for a pretty good quality import microscope. A pristine used "big four" microscope might be a bit better, but probably not easily found (and found all together) at that price.

[roham]

Thanks for the response. From the catalogue : “The condenser is equipped with four phase positions [10x, 20x, 40x, 100x] and a bright field position with iris diaphragm.”
and for objectives they are:infinity corrected c cis Plan achromat phase 10x, 20x,40x and 100x.

As for the big fours, I have been looking on eBay but wasn’t able to find one in pristine condition and same price range.
I have looked for Bh2 - Laborlux 12, CX31, Nikon eclipse
I’m looking for something with:
1) trinocular head
2) decent objectives
3) pristine condition
4) preferably episcopic bright field illumination.


Anyone in this forum, maybe?

Thanks.

[PeteM]

Roham, if you can find a new Motic BA400 with a trinocular head and plan phase objectives and Zernicke type condenser for $700, you're not likely to do much better used. I'm curious, myself, to know who is closing those out at this price? A dealer usually wants significantly more. That BA400 is one of the better Chinese imports - apparently discounted.

To give you an idea of the used market - here's a typical SOLD Ebay listing for a BH2 (BHTU) phase contrast microscope with a trinocular head. It's near $1350 shipped, has only one phase contrast objective, and from the stage and signs of wear looks pretty beat. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Olympus-BH-2-P ... 7675.l2557

The BH2 is a better-built scope than the Motic, with more options for future upgrades. But that sold listing -- which is fairly typically priced -- would be more than 2x the price you're considering with only one phase objective. Nikon Labophot / Optiphot likely about the same properly equipped. Leitz maybe less, but harder for the new buyer to be sure they have the right bits.

You could likely get a Zeiss trinocular in good shape with phase contrast and Neofluar objectives for around that $700. And sometimes we fall into great deals locally, when the entire Ebay community isn't bidding.

The desire for episcopic bright field as well as phase contrast is maybe a puzzler. If this is not for transmitted light and slides, then you don't want the Motic and may want something like a Nikon Optiphot or Olympus BHM with an epi head and epi objectives? Very good older epi scopes can be had, not necessarily pristine but good optically, for under $700. They may have darkfield epi illumination or even reflected DIC. It would be very rare (though possible) to find them configured with a phase contrast condenser and an extra set of phase objectives.

PM me if you'd like a PDF copy of a guide to various brands and models. It covers Motic as well as the "big four" and scores more. Might help you sort out the next step from macro to micro?

[roham]

Thanks Pete for the detailed reply. The main reason for the episcopic illumination is the ability to take pictures from opaque stuff that I find with my son to explore.
Phase contrast is just an added bonus and not necessarily a requirement for me. Yes, motic doesn’t have the reflected illumination either but I was thinking if the price is right, I can start exploring this hobby and upgrade later.

I’m watching these three ( nervous about their condition) . What do you think about these ones ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143328798531

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233606548171

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333602822331

Thanks again for your help.

[75RR]

The main reason for the episcopic illumination is the ability to take pictures from opaque stuff that I find with my son to explore. :)

With a compound microscope that is going to have to be some very small stuff, a stereoscope might be more practical and fun in that regard.

As to the Motic BA400, I agree with PeteM on this. That is a good price, which means you will get most of your money back if you decide to sell one day,

either to delve into used microscopes now that you have some experience or to pursue other hobbies.

Have you found and downloaded the manuals for the used microscopes you are interested in?

As you probably know the objectives are the heart of a microscope so identifying them and being able to place them in their

correct objective ranking (not all objectives were created equal nor with the same function in mind) is important.

Last but not least, both patience and tinkering skills are both part and parcel of owning a used microscope.

[PeteM]

Roham -- I think the ideal for you might be a system microscope with a removable nosepiece and both brightfield and epi possibilities. The epi scope with long working distance objectives would be a natural extenson of macro photography. The transmitted capability adds a new dimension.

Unless you plan to work with a lot of somewhat transparent cells (pond critters etc.) you may not need phase contrast. It's ideal and cost-effective for seeing these types of subjects. But, if you're coming from a photographer's perspective, the halo effect may not be ideal for taking sharp pictures. DIC is the answer to that; but at $$$ cost.

The Leitz HL you listed has the epi system, but not a brightfield condenser, stage, and lenses. There are other Laborlux12HL modes that do have brightfield. One equipped for both might run around $1K. The other Leitz scopes on Ebay don't have the epi stuff, but could be outfitted with it. Leitz made very good stuff, but there were so many product iterations and ownership changes it's a bit of a learning curve to be sure matching components end up on a scope.

Nikon Optipoht 1 and 2 and Olympus BHT and BHS are other possibilities with removable nosepieces, slightly preferable due to better parts availability in my mind.

Zeiss also has these possibilities, along with some Meiji and several other scopes. Where you're located affects what's readily available.

Curious where you found the $700 Motic?

[roham]

Great advice and totally agree. I have a cheap amscope stereo microscope that fascinated my 5 years old son.
As for the manuals, I’ve been reading quite a few of them, bh2- laborlux, orthoplan , Optiphot. But the variations are quite confusing especially Leitz. For example the difference between laborlux S vs D vs 12 (Pol,Me,HL, ...).
I’ve got a Nikon BD plan 40x elwd with bellows for my macro photography and some old Zeiss Luminar 16mm and 65mm RMS thread.

So it looks like I am better off going for the motic?

[roham]

Just saw your reply Pete.
Makes a lot if sense. Motic is from a someone that bought the microscope a while ago and never opened or used it. So it is still fully sealed. I have to agree to but it before even touching it (but of course he will take it back if anything is broken upon inspection)