Getting back into microscopy with a kid

[veliger]

Hi there! This website is a great resource!

I credit my childhood experience with looking at pond water in microscopes for moving me down the path to becoming a biology professor. However, my research thus far has been DNA based (population genetics), so while I am comfortable with microscopes I am still very much an amateur. Now that I have a daughter (7), I am looking to give her the same experience that I had, but also looking to get a compound microscope that I can use to re-develop a microscope photography hobby. I'd like to start with some of the higher end trinocular AmScope or Swift scopes on the store page (or that price range), but eventually we might like to upgrade to a phase contrast objective. I can't quite determine if those scopes will be compatible with such an objective, and with the filter for the condenser. I guess I'm asking about how modular these scopes are? Any help here would be appreciated. Or should I bite the bullet and go for Nikon/Leica etc?

[PeteM]

Welcome - and a few thoughts:

1) A low power stereo microscope is probably the best way to introduce your daughter to the micro world. Well worth doing since, these days, "the next big thing" discovered in science and technology is often too small to see with the naked eye. Few seven year olds will have the patience to prepare slides for a compound scope. So they end up going through some collection of prepared slides, maybe a memorable session viewing pond critters with an adult, and then give up on it. With a stereo scope she can just grab stuff on a walk, around the garden, etc. and get in the habit of finding wonders. It's great if you do it together.

2) You could start with either an affordable new Chinese stereo scope under $150 or a good quality used "pro" stereo scope. that might run around $150 to $300. Under $150 and new, I recommend something like an Amscope 10x and 30x (two powers) scope with reflected and transmitted light -- not a zoom, not necessarily one with more than the 10x objective to get extra powers. The low power alone is most useful. The 30x adds detail. These scopes don't have a wide field of view, a lot of working distance, great optics or superior construction - but they are good to start. The used scopes can be much better, but should be bought after careful personal inspection of image quaity, alignment, and parfocality or a right to return. Here the build quality can be good enough to provide quality zoom or multiple magnifications. Many of these former "pro" scopes (and some new ones with poor QC) will be out of alignment, missing parts, damaged etc. Others will be great deals and lifetime scopes.

3) Moving on to compound scopes -- brands like Amscope and Omax (from the same company) and the latest incarnation of Swift offer phase contrast kits, but they run about $500 as add-ons. Their decent trinocular scopes with plan achro lenses and focus methods sturdy enough and fine enough to do wonders like focus stacking start around $400 and up. If you want phase contrast, it's usually cheaper to start with it as a package than buy it later. You need special objectives with a "phase ring" inside and a special condenser with "phase annuli" inside.

4) Having had over 150 scopes pass through my hands and most of them on to families, and also a DIY streak, I believe the best quality, most expandable, most delightful-to-use scope is a used but good condition microscope from one of the brands that had a full "system" and now has those system parts widely available used. Ideal if it has been made recently (at least post WWII) enough to have a field of view of at least 18mm, good coated plan achromat or better objectives, and either a teaching or trinocular head. The mechanical construction of these can be far better than something new and built to the lowest cost and the optics are typically as good or better than the achromats and plan achromats included with low to mid-priced Chinese scopes. So the same money can buy you a lifetime scope, as long as you get one complete and in good condition. If you're the type with a how-things-work curiosity and a bit of DIY dexterity, you might consider used. If you just want to get started with something new, then the Swift and others have gotten good reviews from first-time microscopists.

5) At some point your daughter is likely to share your interests -- and if you have any population genetics etc. ideas of interest to show kids I'd be grateful if you'd share them. We do a local kids' "Micronaut" program and are always looking to find cool things to see with a bit of science behind them. Just something like chromosomes lining up in mitosis is pretty cool. And pond critters are endlessly interesting to kids -- but we probably need more lessons than it's an amoeba-eat-paramecium-world out there.

6) If you decide to look for a used stereo or compound microscope, happy to send you a copy of my guide to microscope brands and models when you have enough posts to send a personal message. It lists over fifty brands, a couple hundred models, and some of the things to look for or consider if a good deal pops up and you're deciding to buy one or the other.

[DonSchaeffer]

I don't see the point in buying a fancy stereo scope that has 30X magnification. You can get that with a good magnifying glass.

[PeteM]

I suspect most experienced users (say, Scarodactyl, our resident stereo super user or myself with dozens of them) would say there's a world of difference between having a magnifying glass and a good stereo microscope. There's a reason, for example, that surgeons, toolmakers, art conservators, archaeologists, coin collectors, jewelers, biologists, entomologists, etc. use multi-thousand dollar stereo microscopes at powers under 30x, rather than suspend a magnifying glass over their subject. A decent stereo microscope (starting under $150 new, maybe a bit more for a higher quality used one) can be a wonder.

Would agree that a simple magnifying glass is a good way for kids to start. Though many falsely advertise high magnifications (say, 30x) that are either unusable or unobtainable. A good 3x glass magnifier is quite useful. In a stereo microscope the low magnifications (with a wide field, good optics, and long working distances) are also often especially useful.

[Scarodactyl]

Yup, if you get a look through a nice stereo you can appreciate the difference better.

[viktor j nilsson]

I do occasionally use my 20x hand loupe for field ID of insects, but its shallow depth of field and small field of view makes it a rather frustrating endeavor. I consider 10x or 15x to be the maximum comfortable magnification in a hand loupe.

30x on a decent, or even a very basic, stereo microscope, on the other hand, is a pure joy.

[veliger]

Hi Pete. Thanks for this detailed and careful answer!

OK - I'm gonna slow my roll on the compound scope. My wife seconds your view that our daughter is too young for it, and would prefer a stereo scope. There's something like this or this: this , which I think are the Chinese scopes you are talking about. I think the ability to take photos in the field will be big for her... or onto her iPad). Or we could get an Amscope/Swift stereo scope like this one with zoom this one with zoom , and get a cell-phone mount to take picture. Or I could look for a used scope (but I am in a bit of a rush because I am thinking about this for a Xmas present). Any thoughts on these options or others? I'd be really interested in your guide though for future purposes.

For popgen/evolution it can be a bit tough because the concepts are very abstract. In particular the student needs to master "population thinking" about how evolution is a matter of change of allele frequencies, rather than a change to any particular organism. At the college level, I have used the Snowflake Yeast lab , which is super cool because you can actually get yeast to evolve multicellularity (well, the first step anyway) in a matter of weeks by applying selection for settling speed. There are also simulations - I use Avida-Ed which is based on real research software. This is also real evolution, in that it has mutations to a genome and differential survival/selection, even if it is in silico. My students sometimes find it to be a bit too abstract though... and these are college kids Finally, I have just personally gotten into this Evolution digital card game (also has a physical game for sale), which was rated (with the Climate extension) as the best game for teaching evolution by an article in the journal Evolution. It's a deep game with really good and fun strategy etc., but it also emulates co-evolution quite nicely.

[PeteM]

Here's what I'd suggest to begin for a new (and before Christmas) stereo microscope: https://www.amazon.com/AmScope-SE305R-P ... ics&sr=1-7

Having the higher power eyepieces really doesn't add much. The LED light is a bit nicer because you can take it on car, camping, visit the grandparents etc. visits.

The 3D effect of having two separate optical systems is a plus IMO, compared to the digital magnifiers.

Since a trinocular stereo microscope only uses one of the tubes, what I'd suggest to take pictures is a drop-in USB camera eyepiece hooked to an old tablet or laptop. Pull one eyepiece out. Drop in the camera to take a picture or movie. Should be easy enough to use with your assistance, a bright seven year old, and some learning curve. The holder for a cell phone is another option, but have no clue at what age kids end up with cell phones these days. It's faster to swap a USB camera in and out (seconds), but a good cell phone will take better pictures.

One of the cool things about microscopy is the intersection of some field of interest, a micro view to it, digital imaging, and sharing finds with other kids, parents, etc.

In the remote chance you're in the Bay Area, our Children's Museum has a bunch of stereo scopes you and your daughter could try.

I have a couple of biology Prof. friends who think we're pretty much approaching the edge of some metaphorical Petri dish . . . with today's economic assumptions of continuous growth pretty much in need of revision. Going to be an interesting few decades ahead -- surely in need of kids prepared for that future.

[GeekyWife]

Here's what I'd suggest to begin for a new (and before Christmas) stereo microscope: https://www.amazon.com/AmScope-SE305R-P ... ics&sr=1-7

I just bought an almost identical microscope myself. The only difference is that mine is 20X/40X, while this one is 10X/30X. I definitely recommend LED lighting if a 7-year-old will be using it without adult supervision. And definitely get top and bottom lighting; a lot of interesting objects are opaque.

It has definitely taken a bit of practice to get my eyes willing to converge properly, but that only needed an hour or two. Kids might struggle with this, or not. I don't know. (I had no problem at all with my binocular compound microscope. The issue seemed to be the convergence, not just looking with both eyes.)

The quality of the AmScope seems to be pretty good. With reasonable care, I expect it will function a long time.

[PeteM]

Just to add, if others use this thread as advice for kids . . . Most everyone new to scopes thinks they want the highest possible magnification. In my experience, the low magnification (7x-10x) ends up being most useful for both kids and adults -- and then ideally at least one higher magnification in the 20-40x range. It's also seems somewhat easier for eyes to converge and get properly positioned at the lower magnification.

Most better microscopes will also allow you to put on supplemental objective that might halve or double the magnification. So, for example, a .5x supplemental would turns a 20x & 40x to a 10x and 20x.

[Scarodactyl]

Just as a note, my local dealer showed me one of these lower power ones (Unitron branded but likely the same). They have a great image but I had trouble converging it, in that it felt like it took physical effort. Some stereos do that for reasons I do not know, but it isn't universal and I have never experienced it on a higher end stereo.
This can be an individual thing too--my dad couldn't converge an smz-10 but likes the sz7 I swapped him a lot better.

[veliger]

Got the scope and super excited to play with it this week!

[Greg Howald]

Only one thing I might add to all this. Halogen lighting gets really hot when used in the upper fixture of a stereo scope. A burned finger on a 7 year old will not go down well. Maybe consider led lighting. Greg