Newbie buying first microscope

[Nebulous]

Hey everyone. I'm just starting my microscopy journey and have been doing a fair amount of research on microscopes and what to look for when buying. I'm seeking feedback from you more experienced users on my thought process so far. My microscopy requirements are pretty simple for now.

• I'm interested in scoping things such as hair, skin parasites, fungi, water specimens, and things of that nature.

• Brightfield is fine as a starting point, but I'd like a darkfield option either now or at some point in the future.

• I'd like the ability to take quality pictures and potentially videos of specimens.

I've boiled my options down to either an AmScope in the 1-2k range with all the bells and whistles: darkfield, infinity lenses, kohler illumination, trinocular head with a camera, etc or a used Olympus BX41 in good condition with a binocular head and Olympus 4x, 10x, 40x, 100x Plan N infinity lenses for around $2500. I'm intrigued by the Olympus option since they seem to hold on to their value really well if you take care of them. Cliche first-time buying conundrum, I know, and apologize

If I decide to go for the Olympus, what are some elements I should be sure to ask the seller about before making a final decision? I've seen images and a video panning around the scope, and he said it's all original parts aside from the lenses which he said he had to buy separately. Though it only has a binocular head, I'm fine with using one of the eye pieces to snag images to start off with and potentially finding a trinocular head for it later down the road. Is the quality of a good Olympus scope really worth the money these days compared to something like an AmScope, or are you really just paying for the brand name? Also, how is the upgradability of the BX41 if I wanted to move into darkfield or ::gasp:: dare I say phase contrast at some point in the future?

Any thoughts on pros, cons, ideas, recommendations, or potential pitfalls would really be a big help. Thanks for reading!

[PeteM]

For less than the price of that used $2500 Olympus CX microscope (from a dealer?), you might look for a used Olympus BX in excellent condition, It would be a more expandable microscope, hold its value better, and possibly be equipped with significantly better plan fluorite objectives or other features such as polarization, phase contrast, a trinocular head, etc. The availability from sources like eBay somewhat depends on your location.

[Nebulous]

I'm dumb. I typed CX41, but it's actually a BX41. I'll update the original post haha.

No, it's not from a dealer. It would be a private sale.

[apochronaut]

It sounds to me like you are paying about $1,000.00 more for what you are getting, in both cases. You didn't detail which Amscope you are buying but as a general rule, if you are not getting a trinocular head, oil immersion DF condenser with an iris equipped 100X objective , at least some objectives in the planfluor or planapo category and a connectable photo tube for that kind of money , then you are throwing money down the drain. Here are some ponts to consider.
Amscope has a huge on-line presence, primarily due to the snowball effect that being there first has created. Many buyers don't know where else to purchase, so they generate sales and a first line presence on-line.. They are not the best at service. Possibly the worst. Amscope buys off the shelf models from mostly Chinese brokers or sales agents. The exact same microscopes are available from multiple other companies, often cheaper and often with a degree or lots of customer backup. Buying directly from the same agents that Amscope buys from in China is another way to go, if you are buying a new Chinese microscope. Amscope's supposedly sale prices are based on the recommended retail price from the Chinese broker. They assume a 300% markup, so Amscope's discount pricing is based on that. If Amscope discounts 50%, you are still paying more than you would buying the same scope direct from China. Here is an example. I bought a high end 18:1 planapo zoom stereo directly from Bestscope in China for 3800.00 base price. By the time I had it, it cost me around 5200.00 I think it was total but I had them convert everything to $CDN., so incuding shipping and import fees, it was about that in $US. The same microscope was at the same time being retailed in the U.S. with the Unitron badge on it for $12000.00., or roughly the 300% markup. Bestscope is a good place to start. I would rate them 9 out of 10. Sign up on Made in China.com, then search trinocular microscope too. You will see multiple agents selling very similar models. Pick a few and communicate with them. Many will sell one unit, some require volume purchases. Most companies will do some customization for you ; add a DF condenser to the purchase or swap one or more planachros for planapos etc. Amscope likes to sell their preset packages and if you want to swap an objective for instance, it is outside their system and they just want to sell you something extra.

In the used microscope theater, Olympus isn't the only brand but they are the most expensive. Don't get caught up in a brand cult mentality. It is true that in general Olympus have made a number of very good microscope models and that accesories are many and after market accessibility too them is high but you are a beginner. Are you sure you are going to want or need DIC or phase for instance in the future? ... and by then there will probably be better, cheaper options in used Chinese DIC microscopes : a BS 2081 for instance, which is a kind of Nikon E200/E400 mixed clone but with DIC capability.
I would start by paying less and perhaps buying more capability until you get your feet wet. Yes, there are certain models that have stood the test of time and are quite durable and perform at the highest level in their category but those are many and Olympus made some that fall short too. Optically , the image quality is based on specifications, not brand magic. For instance if you want to have the facility to accomplish 1000X DF both the condenser and objective have to have the specifications. If you buy that capability for an Olympus BX 41, it will cost you in excess of 700.00 minimum to add that facility. If you buy it for AO or an older Zeiss, you could land those parts for about 1/2 of that but you might have to look harder. Each would achieve equivalent specification with a similar category of objective and I would defy anyone to tell which was which from an image capture.

[Nebulous]

Thank you for the detailed response.

I can't imagine phase contrast is anything I'll need or want anytime soon. I am definitely interested in pursuing darkfield, but am not in a huge rush—I'm fine working with brightfield for a while to get my feet wet.

I'm leaning towards the Olympus for the availability of parts (thanks or the info), serviceability, upgradability, and brand value. Plus tinkering is fun. I'm seeing some basic brightfield BX41s listed online for a lot more than $2500 so it seems like I may have an alright deal here as far as investment is concerned. If I went this route, perhaps I buy a trinocular head (which do look fairly expensive at a cursory search) and sell the current binocular one then worry about other upgrades later. I did a little digging and this particular BX41 comes with the base U-AC2 Abbe condenser and aforementioned head/objectives. Anything you would recommend confirming with the seller before purchasing if I do decide to go this route? And if you know of any place to get better deals or have other recommendations on quality models, I'm open to ideas.

[apochronaut]

You are paying a lot for that Olympus if it is a binocular 4 plan N objective microscope. What is the illumination? Buying a 5 planachro objective BF scope that would duplicate the performance of that Olympus is a less than a 1500.00 project : less than 1000.00, really. Use the extra money to buy some added accessories.
I assume you are buying from a dealer and not privately?

[Nebulous]

The illumination is "Built-in transmitted Koehler illumination6V 30W halogen bulb (pre-centered) 6V30WHAL (PHILIPS 5761)" according to the BX41 manual.

So for something with Kohler illumination, infinity objectives, the ability to swap out for a darkfield condenser down the road, and a camera tube with a DSLR attachment (I have an old Nikon D3000 laying around somewhere), what brands/models would you recommend looking into if I wanted to pursue the used big 4 path? And what would you recommend looking into if I decide to pursue the new scope path? I'm a little iffy on going directly to Chinese suppliers and getting a no-name microscope after having watched microbehunters video on some of the horrors people run into with poor manufacturing quality, but I'm willing to keep an open mind.

[PeteM]

Depending on your location, there's likely a microscope group or a respected hobbyist willing to lend you a hand. There are dozens of potentially excellent microscopes in your upper price range. Along with Olympus BX models, I'd include Nikon Eclipse and Leica DMLB or DM2000 and above. I'm less keen on the imports, though if you really want a new scope those will be your best reasonably priced option (upper end AccuScope, BestScope, etc.).

Your Nikon D3000 will be fine to start with as a microscope camera. Ideally, you'll want a camera with live view or a mirrorless model to avoid shutter shake, but you want work around that to start. The APS-C sensor will work with an infinity scope like the BX41 direct to the sensor - so a relay lens won't be needed; just adapters.

Darkfield up to 200x and imperfectly to 400x is an easy and cheap addition - just a darkfield stop added to your condenser. Going higher will require a specialized condense - maybe $250 on the used market for either a dry or oiled version.

Simple polarization can also be fitted somewhat affordably - and can provide spectacular images for thinly prepared chemical cystals, minerals, meteorites, and many biological specimens (bone, cartilage, etc.). It also can be useful to control contrast for other specimens.

How you equip your first scope and knowing how to evaluate a used scope are keys to getting a good value. What you've chosen, Olympus BX, is an excellent choice. You just might be paying a bit more than you have to for one without a trinocular head and standard plan achromat objectives. For $2500, I'd expect a trinocular head and perhaps a couple Plan Fluor objectives instead of all Plan Achromats. The better objectives might cost you $500 each if you later decide to buy them one by one.

Toward the lower end of your price range there are even more excellent scopes. I'd include Olympus BH2, Nikon Optiphot, and perhaps various newer Leitz and Zeiss Standard models.

There's also an argument for spending more like $500 to learn what interests you most before spending another $2K. There are even more very good used scopes available in this range, which you could likely sell for about what you paid once you're ready to dive into deeper waters. If you'd like a guide to scores of used microscopes, with a few pros and cons for various models, send a message once you have enough posts to do so. I can send you a PDF of the guide we use for local mentors.

[Nebulous]

Great feedback! I'll definitely take all of this into account and look into the other brands/models you suggested. It's tough to find the right starting point in terms of the price to feature/brand balance when you have no reference point—having a few options to consider is a huge help. Hoping something will stand out to me as the sweet spot soon.

What would you consider a fair price for a BX41 outfitted as described above?

[apochronaut]

The illumination is "Built-in transmitted Koehler illumination6V 30W halogen bulb (pre-centered) 6V30WHAL (PHILIPS 5761)" according to the BX41 manual.

So for something with Kohler illumination, infinity objectives, the ability to swap out for a darkfield condenser down the road, and a camera tube with a DSLR attachment (I have an old Nikon D3000 laying around somewhere), what brands/models would you recommend looking into if I wanted to pursue the used big 4 path? And what would you recommend looking into if I decide to pursue the new scope path? I'm a little iffy on going directly to Chinese suppliers and getting a no-name microscope after having watched microbehunters video on some of the horrors people run into with poor manufacturing quality, but I'm willing to keep an open mind.

Big 4? Why necessarily big 4?. You are looking for a 4 planachro objective BF binocular microscope with standard illumination. You're not deluded into thinking that at 2500.00 for such an equipped microscope that it is an investment are you?
Actually, I have probably posted more about the poor manufacturing quality of lower cost Chinese microscopes than anybody but at 2500.00 you are not talking about a lower cost Chinese microscope anymore. The q,c. that they ignore for the 500.00 microscope gets used elsewhere. They know enough to apply the effort to microscopes that are being used a lot in their own domestic research efforts and extract the foreign capital for such from the randomly adjusted Googroscopes they hawk through Amscope.
Pete M. has some good advice for you there but don't get too focused on brands. Look for specifications not badges. There is no resale for value your intended microscope. You aren't buying an Aston Martin. If and when you come to sell that 2500.00 BX41, if you eventually were to sell it, you will lose a big chunk of your purchase price.
If I were you I would get started with anything that the seller guarantees as fully functional at a good price. BX at the right price, BHT or preferably S, Labophot or preferably an Optiphot, Balplan or preferably research Balplan, AO 10 or preferably 20, 110 or preferably 120, Reichert 410 or preferably 420, Zeiss Axioscope, any Leica DM with the right specs. There are a bunch of options, you are just looking for a microscope that will get you there as a starter, then if, you can move on. The reason for the stated preferences for the S, 20, 120 etc. is that those are the 100 watt halogen versions of conventional stands . Those are immediately high resolution DF and fluorescence capable and high resolution DF is where DF lives. Dry DF up to the 200X that it gives you and the occasional gifted practioner that can push it to 400X are DF baby steps. Oil immersion DF is the James Webb telescope of DF and aside from the oil immersion condenser required, an iris equipped 100X objective seals the deal.

If I had to choose the one stand that would last almost forever, had 5 objective capability, changeable nosepieces, dry and oil high resolution DF capability, phase capability, an easily adaptable to digital photo tube, 8 filter options with fluorescence , including pol and possible DIC conversion( but difficult to find) ; essentially a microscope that can do almost everything an average amateur could possibly want to do at under 2000.00 for everything except the DIC, it would be the AO 20. It's only real defect is the 19mm f.o.v. which in use doesn't really get noticed. The advanced planachros are superb and there are 10X and 40X planapos out there. The oil DF condenser is available in spades cheaply, and a phase system including 10X and 40X dry D.F. can be put together for under 400.00 but that is included in the $2000.00 estimate. The 100 watt halogen bulb is under 5.00 most places. The AO 20 will be chugging along, doing it's thing when the BX 41 power supply hss melted.

[Nebulous]

Big 4? Why necessarily big 4?. You are looking for a 4 planachro objective BF binocular microscope with standard illumination. You're not deluded into thinking that at 2500.00 for such an equipped microscope that it is an investment are you?
Actually, I have probably posted more about the poor manufacturing quality of lower cost Chinese microscopes than anybody but at 2500.00 you are not talking about a lower cost Chinese microscope anymore. The q,c. that they ignore for the 500.00 microscope gets used elsewhere. They know enough to apply the effort to microscopes that are being used a lot in their own domestic research efforts and extract the foreign capital for such from the randomly adjusted Googroscopes they hawk through Amscope.
Pete M. has some good advice for you there but don't get too focused on brands. Look for specifications not badges. There is no resale for value your intended microscope. You aren't buying an Aston Martin. If and when you come to sell that 2500.00 BX41, if you eventually were to sell it, you will lose a big chunk of your purchase price.
If I were you I would get started with anything that the seller guarantees as fully functional at a good price. BX at the right price, BHT or preferably S, Labophot or preferably an Optiphot, Balplan or preferably research Balplan, AO 10 or preferably 20, 110 or preferably 120, Reichert 410 or preferably 420, Zeiss Axioscope, any Leica DM with the right specs. There are a bunch of options, you are just looking for a microscope that will get you there as a starter, then if, you can move on. The reason for the stated preferences for the S, 20, 120 etc. is that those are the 100 watt halogen versions of conventional stands . Those are immediately high resolution DF and fluorescence capable and high resolution DF is where DF lives. Dry DF up to the 200X that it gives you and the occasional gifted practioner that can push it to 400X are DF baby steps. Oil immersion DF is the James Webb telescope of DF and aside from the oil immersion condenser required, an iris equipped 100X objective seals the deal.

If I had to choose the one stand that would last almost forever, had 5 objective capability, changeable nosepieces, dry and oil high resolution DF capability, phase capability, an easily adaptable to digital photo tube, 8 filter options with fluorescence , including pol and possible DIC conversion( but difficult to find) ; essentially a microscope that can do almost everything an average amateur could possibly want to do at under 2000.00 for everything except the DIC, it would be the AO 20. It's only real defect is the 19mm f.o.v. which in use doesn't really get noticed. The advanced planachros are superb and there are 10X and 40X planapos out there. The oil DF condenser is available in spades cheaply, and a phase system including 10X and 40X dry D.F. can be put together for under 400.00 but that is included in the $2000.00 estimate. The 100 watt halogen bulb is under 5.00 most places. The AO 20 will be chugging along, doing it's thing when the BX 41 power supply hss melted.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a big four name. I was just thinking if I can find a decent big four scope at the right price, it might be easier to resell later given the brand name and (perhaps only perceived) higher quality manufacturing; I'm not married to any brand name or approach just yet though. I've been looking at the Leica DMLBs and DM2000s as per Pete's recommendations... they look like quality scopes (aesthetically pleasing too), but the options I'm finding online seem limited, overpriced, or sketchy. There must be a microscope mafia scooping up all the good deals and cranking up the prices by a couple thousand . I'll check out your recommendations, thank you! I'm more than willing to spend time researching and seeking a good deal for my first purchase. I'd rather get it right up front rather than get something fast and be disappointed, so the guidance y'all are providing won't go to waste.

[charlie g]

Hi, nebulous, are you located: con-US? If so , I can offer a ready to go finite optics/ 160 tube length plan achro trinocular microscope with it's power source ( illuminator built into base of this circa 1970's "Steindorf/Berlin trinoc scope).

Total package $500 USD+shipping costs, only possible if you are: con-US. I have a few other binoc scopes, and monocular scopes for low cost sale ( clearing out my study). all the best, charlie g, fingerlakes/US

[Nebulous]

I made a decision and went with this used Leica DMLB on ebay:



Total after shipping and tax came out to around $2100 and it includes all of the following:

Leica DMLB100T Type 020-519.511 Trinocular Microscope
Leica 12V 100W Lamphouse
Leica Trinocular Head 551001 w/ Beam Splitter Dual Phototube 505097
Dual Teaching Microscope Stand
(2) Leica Ergonomic Tilting Binocular Microscope Head 501504 w/ HC PLAN 10x/22 Eyepieces
Leica HC L3TP Camera Adapter
Diagnostic Instruments 0.7X HR070-CMT C-Mount Camera Adapter Coupler
Diagnostic Instruments HC Bottom Clamp
Leica DFC450 Digital Color Microscope Camera
Leica DFC450 IEEE1394b FireWire Cable
Leica ∞/-/A N Plan 5x/0.12 Objective
Leica ∞/- N Plan 2.5x/0.07 Objective
Leica ∞/-/A N Plan 10x/0.25 Objective
Leica 506100 ∞/0.17 C Plan 63x/0.75 Objective
Leica 506096 20x Objective
Leica 506097 40x Objective
Power Cord

Definitely more bang for my buck than going with the bare-bones BX41 for 25.

[apochronaut]

Congrats. Definitely an improvement. The Diagnostic Instruments photo tube alone is worth a bundle.

[Nebulous]

Congrats. Definitely an improvement. The Diagnostic Instruments photo tube alone is worth a bundle.

Thank you from my wallet and I! Couldn't have done it without y'all. Now I just have to hope there aren't any unexpected problems when it arrives. The seller seems reputable, and the description seemed detailed and honest, but fingers crossed nonetheless.