Water for microcosms? Just a bit of a rant.

[Crater Eddie]

I read online about making microcosms, many articles advise to use rainwater, but warn against rainwater collected from rooftops like it was nuclear waste. How else is one suppose to collect rainwater for Pete's sake? I guess they figure rooftop water is contaminated with bird droppings and chemicals leaching out of the shingles and whatnot. I have to wonder how much of a concern this really is, after all, the water spends maybe a second or two washing across the roof on it's way to the gutter... realistically, how much chemical leaching can take place during this short time? And the bird droppings, what, pathogens? Parasites? These same articles also warn against using distilled water. So this rules out just about everything except water collected from pond or stream, not exactly practical for some folks. What the heck is wrong with distilled and RO water, other than a lack of minerals and other nutrients?
Sorry about the rant, but this really irks me.
CE

[einman]

I had this discussion recently with a curator at the local zoo. The problem with rainwater from roof tops is due to contamination which though in ppm or ppb can affect organisms. You can collect rainwater via a barrel, pans etc.

In regards to distilled water some organisms require dissolved minerals removed during the distillation process. The minerals are utilized for metabolic processes and to maintain osmotic pressure across the membrane etc. This is true of many amphibians and fish as well. In fact the curator of the Herps in the zoo adds minerals to the water for this reason.

To think in extreme terms this is why a salt water fish can not survive in freshwater and vice versa. Though some species have mechanisms that allow them to survive in both salt and freshwater.

[einman]

By the way I use bottled springwater.

[billbillt]

I use water runoff from the roof and also birdbath water.. It all contains plenty of wee things and algae to look at.. Maybe I am missing out on some water life, but I get enough entertainment using this method without getting too technical with it..

BillT

[zzffnn]

Any pond water can have pathogen, from West Nile Virus to parasites. Bird dropping can pass pathogens too. Hand washing with sufficient soap/rubbing takes care of most common pathogens.

Rooftop water is not that dangerous, unless you drink it or handle it without hand washing.

My wife and I visited a state park once and my wife got back infected with worms, though strangely she usually washes her hands a lot better than I do. One should be more careful, if his/her immunity is not at optimal performance.

[DaveH]

We have six water butts collecting water from the roof used for watering the veg patch, I just use that water it has more life in it than I can cope with, if I put a pinch of dry grass in a jar of this water the population explodes in a few days, plus the bird bath is a favourite of mine. But I must agree with zzffnn about washing hands, only takes a minute.

Dave

[JimT]

I guess roofs have changed. Use to be houses had a cistern to collect rain water off the roof.

I collect pond water in jars and keep them over the Winter. Periodically I add grass or salad greens when there is snow on the ground. PAs DaveH said populations explode.

[apochronaut]

I really depends on whether you are targeting the growth of certain organisms or just content with a catch as catch can approach. Obviously roofs are laden with all sorts of airborne pollution and many dormant or living organisms, just like the slime under your tongue. Some of this may interact negatively with precise cultures but also produce non-targeted cultures of great diversity and interest.

[gekko]

Two comments for what they are worth: (1) I used to collect "direct" rain water into a container, but now I buy bottled water labeled "spring water" from the grocery store (and hope it is not just bottled tap water). (2) I wear plastic (powderless nitrile) gloves when I work with pond water.

[75RR]

(2) I wear plastic (powderless nitrile) gloves when I work with pond water.

Was wondering about that.
Obviously you think it prudent.
I take it you no longer swim in ponds, lakes and rivers? ;)

[75RR]

Obviously roofs are laden with all sorts of airborne pollution and many dormant or living organisms ...

No one seems to have mentioned that collecting rainwater from a roof at the end of a heavy storm, when it has basically been washed cleaner, should provide better quality water. It does however entail the use a clean/new container and not minding getting wet when you place it.

[charlie]

Wow, I never have taken any precautions collecting water from ponds or wherever. And I sure wouldn't have given collecting rainwater from the roof a second thought. (As yet, I have not consumed either one.) Being a country/farm raised boy (although a way old one now), I doubt that I can get myself to be concerned at this late date. Not saying this attitude is correct or wise, just saying.

[Crater Eddie]

Growing up in the country, I never gave it a thought either. I still wade out into the pond or creek, don't bother to don a Hazmat suit to do it. I am aware of the "risks", haven't died or contracted anything nasty yet. And yes, as a kid our drinking water came out of a cistern fed by roof collected rain. Once in a while we would find a dead cat in the cistern, we all survived.
Yesterday I spent a few pleasant hours examining water samples from our rain barrels, they were teaming with life. I am not tempted to drink it, but as a kid I would have without a thought. Also, I suppose those tiny creatures failed to read the warnings about chemicals leached out of the roof shingles, they didn't seem to mind.
CE

[einman]

Personally I have used lake, pond, and roof water. Whether roof water is actually bad to use would be influenced by the roofs composition. A newly shingled roof would probably not be a good idea I would imagine. I would not hesitate to try water from older rooftops for protists though I would not drink it. As many have mentioned runoff from their roofs is often teeming with life.

Like so many comments regarding the "safety" of anything it is often proposed as "better safe than sorry". Circumstances vary.

I have worn gloves when collecting samples in areas where sewage could contaminate teh water source. With recent reports of "amoeba" Naegleria fowleri infections killing individuals I have been a bit more cautious.

[billbillt]

Yes, Naegleria fowleri makes one stop and think.. Where I live here in the south it needs to be on everyone's mind when swimming in lakes and ponds and other stagnant bodies of water..

BillT

[Crater Eddie]

I'm collecting lots of rain water today!
Flash flood advisory since yesterday through Monday.
CE

[75RR]

I'm collecting lots of rain water today! :D :mrgreen:
Flash flood advisory since yesterday through Monday.

So, did you run out in your birthday suit with a bucket in your hand?

[Crater Eddie]

Not yet, but I still have time. Heavy rain and thunderstorms expected for the next 12 hours.
CE

[charlie]

So, did you run out in your birthday suit with a bucket in your hand?

I must say Glen, that is not a pretty picture!

[Crater Eddie]

Sometimes it really is a good thing that I live way out in the country!
CE

[lorez]

Once upon a time I also lived way out in the country, but the inevitable urban sprawl is doing its best to engulf me. I have not kept any jars of water for a long time as I am fortunate to have a spring-fed road side ditch, a neighbors pond, and a couple of seasonal sources. The road side ditch is full of all sorts of specimens and is probably a good example of how organisms thrive in less than hospitable conditions. The ditch is between the road and an agricultural field that has alternate crops of corn and soybeans.

lorez

[gekko]

Like so many comments regarding the "safety" of anything it is often proposed as "better safe than sorry". Circumstances vary.

One of my concerns is nematodes that I encounter very frequently in muddy samples. And it makes handling cover glasses easier without leaving finger prints on them.

[charlie g]

I root for washing hands always before going into the fridge, multiple times during food prep, and always before going to microscopy bench, and after the bathroom.

Like charlie/Oregon,Wi, and 77RR, and Crater Eddy...pond water, hikes for freshwater...I only wear work gloves in thorn bush areas...not at the waters. As I use a camera on microscopy hikes...I due have paper towels to wipe mud off my hands as needed.

Nematodes are so prevalent...that they would actually trace the terrain they live in, if you could remove all but the nematodes!

It is still horribly unknown why Nagleria or other amoebic brain infections strike one...and nobody else at a southern warm water outdoor swiming area. Same with horrible 'flesh eatting bacteria ' infections..a mild scrape of knee during gardening, or basket ball..tragically in rare instances leads to horrid medical crisis.

I see gekko wearing gloves as a comfort for gekko...more important would be the nature of his microscopy...where/how he degloves...regloves during his activities. But I stick to the golden rules...keep things out of your mouth/ out of your nose, do not be touching your nose of face ( look how many people put their office pen in their mouth...or worse...their fingers...aaaggghhh)...and know when to wash your hands. Yes I have to wash my hands after petting or 'wrasstleing with my good doggies'.

I am much more fearful of high human population parks than other open space venues....waters actually smell different in congested human population areas...and wow am I afraid to go in such waters.

I would let tap water sit for a day if I had chlorinated water...I would use rain water. Crater Eddy..the joy , for me, of a microcosm is setting up a balanced self sustaing microcosm. In these you 'top off' with added water as needed.

I hope folks get out to hike and not fear streams or vernal pools, or stump water microscopy. I enjoy your rants, CR! charlie guevara

[gekko]

Thank you, charlie, for a very interesting post. Yes, I admit that before seeing the nematodes under the microscope, I had no qualms working in the yard with my bare hands even as I knew those worms were everywhere .

[Crater Eddie]

I don't have a problem with hiking and/or wading through waters in remote areas (you should see some of the hikes we do), but usually think twice about it in more populated areas, as Charlie G mentioned above.
CE