Choosing between the Nikon E400 and Leica DMLS

[boffin]

Hi guys, thank you for such a great website and forum for microscopy hobbyist. I've been avidly reading the articles and discussion posts for the past few months.

I have come across two used microscopes here in Singapore and would appreciate your thoughts on what to go with - a Nikon E400 and a Leica DMLS. Both are binocular with Abbe condensers. The Leica includes 3 N-Plan 0.17 objectives: 10x/0.25, 20x/0.40 and 40x/0.65. Eyepieces are 10x/20. The Nikon also comes with 3 objectives: 4x/0.10, Plan 10x/0.25 amd Plan 100x/1.25 Oil. Its eyepieces are the CFI 10x/22. Oh, and the Nikon costs roughly 2x the Leica system.

I have inspected both and found them to be in similar condition - light wear and tear on the bodies, optics are clean & fungus free, mechanically sound.

Primary use would be to observe and eventually photograph protists, cellular matter etc. and introduce my kids to the joys of amateur science. So I am looking to eventually add on a trinocular head, a phase contrast condenser + objectives, etc... typical path most of us take with such hobbies. But I am in no hurry to do so.

Do you feel that the Nikon E400 is optically superior to be worth 2x the price of the Leica DMLS (approx. US$1,000)? I do note that there appear to be a couple of trinocular heads for the Leica available on EBay for US$350 while the Nikon heads appear hard to source. Conversely, I see phase contrast condensers and objectives available for the Nikon while not the Leica.

Thanks in advance and look forward to reading your opinions.


cheers

[Dennis]

My question would be- Do you need a Nikon E400?

I bought used Nikon S microscopes for about 150 US dollars or less and then bought a used set of Nikon Plan lenses to go with one for about 200.

I mean the quality is pretty great in the results I get.

-Dennis

[boffin]

Hi Dennis, that's what I'm hoping to figure out with the help of forumers like yourself. Both are good scopes and the DMLS is pretty attractively priced. So it boils down to how good are (1) the Nikon CFI PLAN Achromats vs the Leica N PLAN Achromats, (2) the occulars and (3) the availability and cost of adding components over time.

[75RR]

Dennis makes a good point. You will find more flexibility and economy with a 160 rather than an infinity system.
Since you mention upgrades you should look at the price and availability of them for both systems as well as by brand.
It might be an idea to make a wish list, add everything you would like to have eventually as well as the prices, and see what make and system that leads you to.

[charlie]

My advice would be to be patient, look at a bunch of microscopes over the period of at least a month, if not several, and try to find a microscope that is complete, or at least closer, to you ultimate goal.

I can say with confidence that it will cost a lot less and likely cause fewer headaches as well.

(I know from experience waiting is HARD!)

[KurtM]

Good stuff. I'd add that:

The Nikon also comes with 3 objectives: 4x/0.10, Plan 10x/0.25 and Plan 100x/1.25 Oil.

Yikes, that's quite the abyss, 100x to 1000x! For pond protists, I find 200x and 400x practically indispensable. I'd be terribly unhappy without a 40x objective, and much prefer to have something in the 16x-20x range as well. The 100x oil objective tends to be of more or less limited use to most of us.

[Dale]

Here is the Leica manual. Even covers depth measurement, a current topic.
http://www.severnsaleslabequip.com/manu ... .10.08.pdf
Dale

[lorez]

Hello boffin,

Do you feel that the Nikon E400 is optically superior

I have both of these scopes and am familiar with their respective qualities. In bright field and phase the images are excellent and the components are well made. You won't go wrong in either case. As Kurt said, the absence of the mid-level objectives is an important consideration, but I think you could easily find what you need. They are optical equivalents so you must consider all the other things in building your "ultimate microscope".

I also have the Olympus BH2 and Nikon Labophots and they are also very good. Were it me, I would opt for the newer models, but that's just me. When you get into the higher end scopes from any of these manufacturers it's hard to go wrong.

Since you have found necessary accessories to be available for the Leica that would tip the scales in its favor.

Whatever you choose, you are on the way to some very stimulating viewing.

PS. For Kurt... I also have an AO 10. The first microscope I used seriously as a graduate student in 1970. It's probably the reason I am suffering from this debilitating disorder.

lorez

[Dennis]

Maybe keep an eye open for other scopes . If you had to choose from those two without any opportunity to ever upgrade, add etc... again The objectives on the Leica are more usable.

4X or 5X or whatever is good for getting the "whole scene" in view.
10X is like your main "go to" objective.
20X is real good
40X for the tiny ones like amoeba.

That would be, to me, the 4 basic objectives you want for water critters.
I am in no way an expert. Just a hobby thing.
-Dennis

[boffin]

First of, apologies for the delay in replying - both my PC and laptop decided to go on vacation within 24 hours of each other last Monday. The PC is back up with a new motherboard while the laptop is still in the hospital awaiting a replacement LCD panel. All in all, a rather expensive week...

A big thank you for the kind advice and link to the DMLS manual - I did find it as well while researching the scopes. Quite helpful for maintenance and alignment but also wished it listed the model numbers of compatible parts.

I ended up going with the Leica because it was in better shape than the Nikon. Even then, the 10x objective had to be scrapped as the coatings had been damaged by fungus. But the seller dropped the price and the savings more than paid for a 10x and 5x objective sourced from ebay.

lorex is spot on - the build quality is excellent and after clean up and lubrication, the mechanical performance is as good as new.

I do agree that a 160 DIN would offer more flexibility for expansion but didn't want to take the risk of buying unseen for such a large acquisition. The labs and schools here upgrade their equipment quite regularly so most of the secondhand instruments are infinity systems, which pretty constrained my choices.

So here it is! Looking forward to digging into the new hobby!

IMG_20160302_103254.jpg (171.14 KiB) Viewed 7585 times

IMG_20160302_103316.jpg (221.33 KiB) Viewed 7585 times

[Crater Eddie]

Looks like a nice scope. I hope you get lots of good use out of it.
CE

[KurtM]

Dang - she's a beauty! Love the artwork on the wall too.