Microhabitat upgrade

Do you have any microscopy questions, which you are afraid to ask? This is your place.
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coominya
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Microhabitat upgrade

#1 Post by coominya » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:58 am

Over the past week I acquired a square bottle along with a small narrow fish tank which I am using to breed my protozoa in. The tank is only 27x17x12 cm but is a HUGE improvement on my jam bottle. The square bottle is more a decoration than anything. I would welcome any suggestions about keeping the tankwater "fresh".

I was immediately rewarded from the tank with a large fat cilliate measuring approx 200 micrometers length wise which I have tentatively identified as a Dexiotricha. I had also acquired a calibration slide this week and calculated the fov for my old Olympus ECE as follows. At 100x, 1800u, and at 400x, 450u. The cilliate had three (vacuoles?) that opened and closed every 5 seconds, very rapidly too. I observed it for several minutes and then rinsed the slide back into the tank, hoping it would breed more since I hadn't seen anything as large in a single celled organism before.

Ideally I would like a system with some ledges and out of the water areas but that will have to wait. A few pix of the tanks and my new friend.



Image


Image



In the second and third pictures you can clearly see the holes first open and then closed. Three of them along the top of the cell, a large one near the (head?)

Image


Image


Image


I have a video link which I'll append here when it's processed.

Here is video https://vimeo.com/262757977
Last edited by coominya on Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MicroBob
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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#2 Post by MicroBob » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:17 pm

Thank you for showing your tank project! I think the wide opening will be one of the most important advantages over your old bottle.
I have just bought a fish tank for the same use. My plan is to put 1-2cm of soil to the bottom, a thick polyester fleece above it, then 2-3cm coarse sand (2-3mm) then pond water and a couple of plants from the zoo shop, then pond water to the top. It is winter weather here, we had snow again today. There are not many plants to find in the ponds.
I never had a fish tank before and I'm curious to see how it will develop. It will be at a west oriented bay window and will have sun from mid day to nearly sundown.

Bob

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#3 Post by Hobbyst46 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:33 pm

the fov for my old Olympus ECE as follows. At 100x, 1800u, and at 400x, 450u.
These are typical diameters for the 10x and 40x objectives and 10x eyepieces at about FOV 18mm.
and will have sun from mid day to nearly sundown.
Bob, direct sunlight into the tank guarantees plenty of green algae along the glass walls. Filamentous, but will it be phytoplankton as well? How easy is it to obtain algae diversity in a small tank?

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#4 Post by MicroBob » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:25 pm

Hi Doron,
I have zero experience with this so I will just have to try it. I hope to be able to create varying conditions by changing the structure of the tank bottom.
If it doesn't work out it is a small tank and easy to start from new.

Bob

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#5 Post by coominya » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:45 pm

MicroBob wrote:Thank you for showing your tank project! I think the wide opening will be one of the most important advantages over your old bottle.
I have just bought a fish tank for the same use. My plan is to put 1-2cm of soil to the bottom, a thick polyester fleece above it...
Bob
Tanks are definitely the way to go, I have seen the setups on a furniture thread here and there are lots of tanks evident. Mine has a glass cover which isn't obvious from the photo but will keep it from evaporating too fast I assume. I have a rainwater tank here so I used that and a generous amount of creek water to set mine up.

Keep me updated on your project Bob, were coming into winter soon and your experience with the cold could be useful. Are you using a food additive? I use rotting hay.
Tom.

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#6 Post by coominya » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:55 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:
the fov for my old Olympus ECE as follows. At 100x, 1800u, and at 400x, 450u.
These are typical diameters for the 10x and 40x objectives and 10x eyepieces at about FOV 18mm.
I thought that might be the case given most brands have identical objective and ep sizing. It makes it quite easy really. I'll have to keep my eye out for an ep with the graduations across it just in case I become obsessed with recording data :D
I found this on ebay https://tinyurl.com/y9oktf2w It has a 23.2mm size which is the same as mine.

I hope someone comes along soon and gives me a positive ID on the protist.

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#7 Post by MicroBob » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:06 am

You would have to try how well the chinese eyepiece fit to your objectives optically.
For a measuring eyepiece it is ideal to have an eyepiece that can be focused on the grid.
For occasional use it is possible to just print a grid on overhead transperancy sheet with a laser printer.

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#8 Post by coominya » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:15 am

MicroBob wrote:You would have to try how well the chinese eyepiece fit to your objectives optically.
On rethinking I decided chinese made was not for me, I don't have any faith in their gear. I bought this instead, it was local and cheaper. Will get delivered in a week

Image

Image

I don't know it's pedigree but it looks almost identical to the old eyepieces in my scope and is the same dimensions all round. The only difference is that the bottom glass is almost flush with the base whereas in my EP's they are recessed up 15mm

This is one of mine out of the ECE, very scratched unfortunately though it doesn't seem to effect the views. Do you think the EP I bought will be useless due to the lower lens difference?


Image

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#9 Post by MicroBob » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:19 am

coominya wrote: Do you think the EP I bought will be useless due to the lower lens difference?
No, this is unlikely. I don't know much about Olympus gear, may be the new eyepiece fits perfectly to your objectives, at least it seems to be of similar age. Maybe it is not parfocal with your other eyepieces. This could be corrected by lifting one of the eyepieces with the correction helix.

In eyepieces there is often an aperture that sits right below where you would like to have your grid. In laser print they are somewhat coarse, but usable. I had a look for the design I made, but I didn't find it, sorry.

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#10 Post by coominya » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:01 am

MicroBob wrote:I don't know much about Olympus gear, may be the new eyepiece fits perfectly to your objectives, at least it seems to be of similar age. Maybe it is not parfocal with your other eyepieces. This could be corrected by lifting one of the eyepieces with the correction helix.
That's ok, I don't mind a few do it yourself projects but I really have enough on my plate now with a LED conversion one and would rather just buy an EP like this one. Altering it as you say sounds simple if it's not parfocal. I'll let you know when it arrives and we can discuss it further if need be.

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#11 Post by charlie g » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:48 pm

Hi, coominya, great to see your enjoying freshwater communities. Please keep all your 'cultures' for microscopy observations in a sense of:

1) setups which run a course of changes...eventually to reach a state 'final community status'/ 'climax communities. Think of a container of milk left to spoil..the organisms and their outputs make that initial milk fluid goes through a predictable series of organism communities..each stage looks different, under microscope the communities look different, the overall 'culture' looks/smells/ is physically different at each stage of change.

So too with a simple jar of collected natural freshwater/ saltwater/ brackish water/ bog-swamp water/ soil water...on and on with the chosen 'starter culture' setup. All will change over time...run through a sequence of community stages.

2) setups which have a balanced population of : plants/ animals / recycle-organisms...setups which are crafted to be 'balanced/ steady state sustainable'.

3) setups with running water...water and light/dark cycle ...and a variety of habitats which on a gross level/ on a macroscopic level...filter/recycle/ maintain a steadystate collection of different communities..each habitat with microhabitats...all maintained by the running water through the variety of habitats. Great opportunities for microscopic observations and explorations in the vast collection of 'stable state communities' in these setups. Think indoor aquariums, vivariums, terrariums...or potted plants which go on for years.

4) setups you place outdoors for the climate/ seasonal 'drivers' of: your areas day/night cycle, your areas climate cycle...and the very tricky controls you may need to make to keep your home wildlife neighbor birds/rodents/insects from totally disrupting/digging up/ruining your microscopy microcosm.


Think of our neighbor protists, meiofauna, as usually occurring in a balance with larger members of our world...like a container of milk left to: spoil/ rundown, many indoor jars of freshwater items...may either be a setup which 'runs down through stages'...or you can setup a balanced and rather stable setup microcosm. Charlie guevara

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#12 Post by coominya » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:51 pm

charlie g wrote:Hi, coominya, great to see your enjoying freshwater communities
Charlie guevara
Thanks Charlie, that's a very detailed resume of various methods of keeping the organisms alive and well here at home. I think I will begin with a light over the small tank, to give it some daytime, as at present it sits in a dark corner. Would you suggest a special aquarium fluro light or would any small fluro do?

All this is quite a learning curve but I'll get there one day. I bought a small paperback on parasitic protozoa from the 1970's and it has been quite useful as it describes the basic anatomy and physiology as well as chapters on specific organisms.

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#13 Post by charlie g » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:46 pm

Hi again, I compliment you on being eager to explore protozoa...when you mention: 'parasitic protozoa'...well you already have expanded your understanding of relations of protozoa to the totality of our world.

Please get back to basics...there are climatic regimes (?sp?)/ there are rather predictable global zones of life...call these: biomes... our globes northern 'taiga' is a favorite biome of mine. Ahh those 'winter birds' which migrate down seasonally to my: lat. 44,north...area..lots of transported viruses and protists, and mites ( and more phyla) with these life conveyors of global communities.


In all life communities their are assemblages of: primary producers/ secondary herbivore consumers/ tertiary predators/ recyclers/ saprophytic populations...it is exactly this wonderful and habitat specific variety of levels of trophic energy processing communities within which your microscopy offers you: a rich and thoughtful hobby path, a collection of world realities to hone image capture/ forum sharing of, a life gratifying reason to obtain better and varied microscope equipment for enjoying these world realities...you yourself must delve into: 'microscopy world views'...do not stumble with the very awesome reality of our dear planets life games...just as many organisms got on with world functions as 'free living organisms' in the layers of trophic energy processing...perhaps each (who knows if each living organism hosts multiple parasites?!!)...it is a difficult but gratifying concept to embrace that: maybe more organisms have gone parasitic life path...than the wonderful menagerie of free living organisms we encounter in our world daily...gulp!!...big fleas have littler fleas, upon their backs to bite them...and littler fleas have smaller fleas...and so on infintum.

Please enjot your homework....Charlie guevara
Last edited by charlie g on Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#14 Post by coominya » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:32 pm

charlie g wrote:Hi again, I compliment you on being eager to explore protozoa...when you mention: 'parasitic protozoa'...well you already have expanded your understanding of relations of protozoa to the totality of our world.
Aside from a basic uni biology text, the parasitic protozoa is the only paper book I have thus far. I prefer reading hard copy, especially as a bedtime exercise. I know it's a bit in depth for me but I'm gleaning bits here there and everywhere. I find that reading, mechanical adjustment work, photography as well as habitat creation, are all good facets of the hobby and go a long way to maintaining interest. I am expanding each area as time permits but it's a hell of a lot to grasp, even the rudiments are hard to consolidate. I should be retired in about 5 years and that will help :)

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#15 Post by billbillt » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:16 pm

Hi coominya,

Thanks for the info on your micro habitats.. I find these kind of projects very interesting... please keep us informed on your progress with this and any other endeavors that you pursue...



Thanks!,
BillT

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#16 Post by coominya » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:33 am

MicroBob wrote:
coominya wrote: Maybe it is not parfocal with your other eyepieces. This could be corrected by lifting one of the eyepieces with the correction helix.
It arrived today and looks new. The top lens is wider than mine, the image brighter, but it's a perfect fit and parfocal with mine. Even sits at the same height relative to my eye and that's with the top wound out a fair way to bring the grid into focus. I couldn't have wished for better :)

This is exciting, one of the basic principles of all science is accurate linear measurement, and now I have that ability. As I record my observations I can add this dimension.

Image

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#17 Post by MichaelG. » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:01 am

coominya wrote:It arrived today and looks new. The top lens is wider than mine, the image brighter, but it's a perfect fit and parfocal with mine. Even sits at the same height relative to my eye and that's with the top wound out a fair way to bring the grid into focus. I couldn't have wished for better :)

This is exciting, one of the basic principles of all science is accurate linear measurement, and now I have that ability. As I record my observations I can add this dimension.

Image
Great result ... in terms both of the purchase and the image.
At the risk of stating the obvious [please forgive me if I am]: The 'eyepiece micrometer' is a relative scale [i.e. a comparator], and, to provide 'accurate linear measurement' your eyepiece scale now needs to be calibrated, for each of your objectives, against a known reference.

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#18 Post by 75RR » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:26 am

The 'eyepiece micrometer' is a relative scale [i.e. a comparator], and, to provide 'accurate linear measurement' your eyepiece scale now needs to be calibrated, for each of your objectives, against a known reference.
Here is a link that describes it well:

http://microscope-microscope.org/advanced/reticles.htm
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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#19 Post by coominya » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:20 pm

MichaelG. wrote: to provide 'accurate linear measurement' your eyepiece scale now needs to be calibrated, for each of your objectives, against a known reference.
That's right, but it never hurts to state the obvious Michael. Fortunately I have a calibration slide that I used to fix the fov of my 10x and 40x objectives (the only ones I use at present) It gave me a rough guide to go by but now I can use it to calibrate the ep. So bear with me and check my logic please.

Below is a photo taken at 400x, my 40x objective x the 10x eyepiece. The underlying scale in the pic is the calibration slide's centre matrix and each division is stated to be 0.01mm, or 10 microns. Each division of 10u equates to 4 on the ep, hence each ep division is 2.5u is it not? Actually as you can see, the two scales do not line up exactly and the true ep division size is slightly less, but I disregard this error since the errors I will make visually judging the scale against an object on my slide will no doubt be much greater. So as an example, if I measure a protists' length via the 40x obj at say, 20 divisions, then it is 50u long.


Image
Last edited by coominya on Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#20 Post by coominya » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:35 pm

75RR wrote:Here is a link that describes it well:

http://microscope-microscope.org/advanced/reticles.htm
Thanks 75. I read it through and it's basically the same process I used, which was nice conformation as now I don't have to wait until you guys on the other side of the world wake up tomorrow to verify my calculations :)

It seems I have a standard reticle and slide. I suppose they are all standardized?

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#21 Post by 75RR » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:52 pm

It seems I have a standard reticle and slide. I suppose they are all standardized?
Pretty much, certainly the most common for your typical animalcule measurement which is what we need it for.
Do note that the larger the comparison, the more accurate the calibration.

I measure the full length i.e. my 100 reticle divisions = 225 microns, which gives me 2.25 µm per division.

Will have to check at some point if the Optovar has an effect.

Agree that this can be too much accuracy, particularly if trying to measure a frisky protist.
Size is an important part of identification - I do however round up or down as needed.
Last edited by 75RR on Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#22 Post by coominya » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:58 pm

75RR wrote:

Will have to check at some point if the Optovar has an effect.
I imagine it would, it would be just like using an objective of higher power would it not?
I have a similar system in the optical train on my IMT-2, it has a factor of 1.5x

Is that how people achieve magnifications of 2000x, with systems like the Optovar?

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#23 Post by 75RR » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:12 pm

My Optovar has 1x, 1.25x, 1.6x and 2x magnifiers, a Bertrand lens and a Polarized filter (analyser) - there are however several different versions.

2x is overkill - well into empty magnification territory. It rarely provides a better image, not sure quite why it was included.

The 1.25x and 1.6x are the most useful, I tend to use them if I need an intermediate magnification.
Will have to check at some point if the Optovar has an effect.
By which I meant I will have to check that the 1x is indeed 1x

Here is a link to a pdf on the Optovar: http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/ind ... tovar.html
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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#24 Post by coominya » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:20 pm

75RR wrote:
2x is overkill - well into empty magnification territory. It rarely provides a better image, not sure quite why it was included.
Will have to check at some point if the Optovar has an effect.
By which I meant I will have to check that the 1x is indeed 1x

Here is a link to a pdf on the Optovar: http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/ind ... tovar.html
Perhaps the 1x is just an empty slot?

Perhaps this excerpt from your link explains the 2x
This allows the microscopist to bridge over the magnification gaps between objectives in small steps and saves him from having to change the eyepieces frequently.
I believe I have a pair of 7x eyepieces but I have never considered using them, probably for the reason stated.

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#25 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:13 am

75RR wrote:Here is a link to a pdf on the Optovar: http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/ind ... tovar.html
Which reminds me ... Can anyone explain the origin of the term 'Telan Lens' ?
It seems to be a synonym of 'Tube Lens' ... but I know not why.

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#26 Post by billbillt » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:37 am

MichaelG. wrote:
75RR wrote:Here is a link to a pdf on the Optovar: http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/ind ... tovar.html
Which reminds me ... Can anyone explain the origin of the term 'Telan Lens' ?
It seems to be a synonym of 'Tube Lens' ... but I know not why.

MichaelG.
I FOUND NOTHING ON "TELAN" EITHER.. HERE IS WHAT ZEISS HAS TO SAY ABOUT IT..

http://zeiss-campus.magnet.fsu.edu/articles/basics/

BILLT

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#27 Post by MichaelG. » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:15 am

Thanks for checking, BillT

I did wonder whether 'Herr Doktor Telan' was the inventor, but I have drawn a complete blank.

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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#28 Post by 75RR » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:21 pm

Which reminds me ... Can anyone explain the origin of the term 'Telan Lens' ?
It seems to be a synonym of 'Tube Lens' ... but I know not why.
My theory is that there is no Mr Telan, Dr Telan nor Herr Telan.

But as in:
Telangiectasis.
[mod.L., f. Gr. τέλος end + ἀγγεῖον vessel + ἔκτασις extension, dilatation.]
and
Telanthropus
[mod.L., f. Gr. τέλ-ος end, consummation + ἄνθρωπος man.]

We also have:
Telan lens
[mod.L., f. Gr. τέλ-ος end], therefore we have End Lens.

There are two Telan lenses used to create space in finite microscopes, one at one end of the component to be added (e.g. an Optovar) and another at the other end.
The first is a negative telan which converts the light into parallel rays and a second is a positive telan that converts the rays back to converge at the proper tube length.

It is this created ‘parallel space’ that allows one to incorporate additional components in a finite microscope while maintaining the tube length.

The move from finite to infinite microscopes (effectively having an incorporated Telan - where the objective functions as a negative telan and the tube lens as a positive telan),
was driven largely by the savings that were made by being able to manufacture these additional components without having to place individual Telan lenses in each one.
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Re: Microhabitat upgrade

#29 Post by MichaelG. » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:10 pm

I think you may be correct 77RR

I was browsing the Manchester University Library 'search' facility this morning, and came across the term 'telangiectasis' that you mention ...

Thanks
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