First microscope

[Hobbyst46]

@Glycolyse:
Replacing a binocular head with a trinocular is not a handyman's job but a very easy task. You loosen one thumb-screw, carefuly press the head to one side and pull it out, insert the trinocular head into the stand and tighten the thumb.
Converting the illumination of a Zeiss Standard from tungsten to halogen simply means buying a halogen illuminator - they are available but I do not know prices. Converting either of them to LED is not so easy for a beginner in mechanics/electronics. One solution is to order a ready-to-go LED illuminator for the Zeiss Standard. They are custom-made in Texas, for about $150-200 including postage, last time that I checked - a few months ago.

[Glycolyse]

Hi Hobbyst,

Thanks for your help.

I found a beautiful Nikon Labophot 2 Trinocular Microcope, Phase contrast condenser + Phaco objectives included, overpriced. I wanted to make an offer, unless I saw it was not shipping outside of the US. I contacted the seller to negotiate, but I don't think it will be possible.

I'll keep you informed.

Glycolyse

[Glycolyse]

Hi everyone,

So, as far as I searched for phase contrast microscopes on Ebay the past few days, there was a majority of inverted microscopes.

I wanted to know more about the advantages of an inverted microscope, and I came across this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6490&p=58144&hilit= ... hot#p58144

My question is, does a beginner benefits from an inverted microscope as a first 'scope ? Or should I say, is it recommended ?
Quick reminder: I'd like to observe pond life and sea water.

Glycolyse

[Hobbyst46]

The term "inverted microscoped" includes simple single-purpose models ("tissue culture") and sophisticated system research microscopes.
Here is a citation from the manual/brochure of (only for example) an Olympus CK microscope, a relatively simple tool:

"The Olympus Inverted Biological Microscopes Models CKP and CKC are designed for the examination of tissue cultures, living protozoa and similar specimens in natural form in the Petri dish, culture bottle or test tube (with accessory holder) in which they grow..."

Often, phase contrast is the default mode in such scopes, since they are primarily used to watch transparent creatures. And their special virtue is indeed the specimen container, like petri dish; such observations are difficult to do on an upright microscope, and one needs water-immersion objectives. On the other hand, ordinary slides at high magnification are easier to watch on an upright microscope.

IMHO an inverted microscope is suitable for a beginner as well as experienced - it all depends on what one prefers to study! there are other considerations, like the availability of components for upgrade (objectives, condensers etc) - but these IMO are not first priority.

[Glycolyse]

Hi Hobbyst,

Thanks for the clarification. I might not consider an inverted microscope as a first 'scope, but it is definitely interesting to have one in the future.

Glycolyse

[Hobbyst46]

Here is an attractively priced (I think; both the item and postage costs) AO microscope - how would it be as starter? and potential upgrades like trino head, darkfield and phase ? looks like it has eyepieces and 4X, 10X and 45X objectives.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-OPTIC ... rk:16:pf:0

[Glycolyse]

Hi Hobbyst,

Thanks for your idea. However, I think I'd prefer a more sophisticated one. I could have gone with a Chinese microscope with everything included, but at the end of the day, an used 'scope is more viable I think.
By the way, it will be though for me to find a microscope, because I won't be able to receive packages from the 17th of January (for a month).

Glycolyse

[Glycolyse]

Hi everyone,

Quick update. I previously said:

I found a beautiful Nikon Labophot 2 Trinocular Microcope, Phase contrast condenser + Phaco objectives included, overpriced. I wanted to make an offer, unless I saw it was not shipping outside of the US. I contacted the seller to negotiate, but I don't think it will be possible.

The seller contacted me back. And he is open for an international shipping. However, the microscope is overpriced.

https://www.ebay.fr/itm/292534994551?ul_noapp=true

Here is a quick description of the Labophot 2 found on internet:

The Labophot 2 is a sturdy, versatile microscope offering research-level performance and a modular system that makes it highly adaptable for clinical, biological, industrial, and educational laboratories. The Labophot 2 utilizes the Nikon CF optical system, which yields high-quality images attainable only in costly research instruments. Housed on a simple rugged stand, the Labophot withstands the heavy demands of constant laboratory use. It is available with either a forward or rear facing quintuple nosepiece, and a 6-volt, 20-watt Köhler illumination system consisting of a halogen lamp and a variable illuminator control potentiometer. The substage condenser mount allows the condenser to be changed quickly and without re-adjusting the centering screws. A variety of binocular and trinocular eyepiece tubes are available, featuring a 30-degree inclination and Seidentoph design to minimize the need for refocusing while switching from one objective to another. A quick-change filter holder allows the user to quickly mount up to two filter blocks without disassembling the microscope. The Labophot 2 features high-precision stages, mechanical rectangular or circular rotatable with six minute vernier gradations. A choice of six condensers are optional equipment on the Labophot, and can be configured for either brightfield or darkfield use. A wide range of Nikon brightfield objectives are available to complete the basic Labophot setup. A variety of accessories are also available for phase contrast, fluorescence, and polarizing microscopy and for microphotography, as well as teaching head adapters, a zoom drawing tube, and projection screen. Equipped with three objectives; E Plan 4/0.1 160/-, E Plan 10/0.25 LWD, E Plan 40/0.65 160/0.17 in a quintuple nosepiece, two CFWN 10x/20 eyepieces, mechanical slide stage, and an Abbe 1.25 brightfield condenser.

How much should I ask for it ? Do you see anything (except the quality of the objectives, oculars, flow of the commands etc...) that I should be worried about ? The only thing I didn't see/wasn't mentioned was a power supply.

Glycolyse

[viktor j nilsson]

Not sure why you would even consider that one. It's nice, but the German one seems better in almost all respects. The German one has all objectives of the better and less common CFN series, the one you linked to have E plan series, which is the economy series. E plan are good, don't get me wrong, but why buy a more expensive scope from overseas with lesser objectives, when you can get the same stand with better optics from Europe for a lot less money.

As long as the German seller explicitly states the condition ("fully operational" or so), eBay has pretty good protection for buyers.

Edit: I see that there seller wrote "100% working". As long as German eBay has the same buyer protection as US eBay, you should be well protected in case it is anything but that.

[viktor j nilsson]

If you haven't done so already, you really should read this catalogue and study the differences betwenn the Achromat, E Achromat, E Plan Achromat and CFN plan Achromat series.

http://www.krebsmicro.com/Nikon_CF.pdf

The CFN is the best Nikon objectives you could reasonable expect to get in this price range, the only step up would be PlanApo's, that's very very expensive. CFN series objectives are really good.

[Hobbyst46]

Even if I ignore that the seller of that Nikon Labophot microscope refuses returns, a price of $2875 is exaggerated, although it seemingly covers refurbishment, mechanical fixing and the camera interface. The great minus is this: supposing that you do not like it (for any reason) and decide to sell it after a while. There is very little chance, IMHO, that you will get back more than half that sum.

[Glycolyse]

Hi everyone,

Viktor,

Not sure why you would even consider that one. It's nice, but the German one seems better in almost all respects.

I guess you are talking about this microscope: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Mikroskop-Nikon ... rk:10:pf:0 , right ?

My only issue is the statement "No return". I must inquire the seller, and see if it is possible to lower the price.

The PDF you posted is highly informal. Thank you for the document.

Hobbyst,

My plan was 1) Ask the seller if international shipping was possible 2) Talk about the price. So no worries.

Glycolyse

[Glycolyse]

Hi everyone,

I found a very attractive microscope yesterday. It is a Leitz Dialux: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leitz-Dialux-m ... rk:28:pf:0

What surprised me in the description is this: All the objectives are 170mm tube length except the 40X being 160mm. Otherwise, I think it is a pretty good scope that I could get for a fair price. I need your opinions. And of course...

Happy New Year !

Glycolyse

[Glycolyse]

Hi everyone,

I also found a Zeiss Standard 14 Phase contrast microscope from a french amateur microscopist from Le-Naturaliste:

Microscope binoculaire Zeiss Standard 14.
Très bon état mécanique et optique

Equipé en contraste de phase:
Néofluar 16/0,40 ph2
" " 40/0,75 ph2
" " 100/1,30 ph3
plan 6,3/0,20

2 oculaires 10/20 neufs

Diaphragme de champs

Condenseur à tourelle + anneaux de phases, diaphragme d'ouverture.

Transfo délivrant 4 tensions d'éclairage (puissant)
possibilité de le modifier en éclairage LED puissant (A discuter)

Par la poste (25€) ou livraison suivant mes déplacements pro
Prix: 550 €

Photos: http://www.lenaturaliste.net/portail/im ... s/435a.jpg
http://www.lenaturaliste.net/portail/im ... s/435b.jpg

What do you think ?

[Hobbyst46]

The Leitz Dialux is appealing, and is more modern than the Zeiss 14, but the purchase conditions are different, so I cannot compare pricewise (even if the Dialux can be purchased from outside the USA).

The Zeiss Standard looks very nice.
The pros are:
1. Zeiss Standard, so a high chance of finding upgrade parts, if wished
2. Wide field high eyepoint oculars
3. ergonomic stage movement
4. Very good neofluar phase objectives of the magnifications that are useful to you (I own such and I enjoy them a lot) - provided there is no
delamination or fungus - I would inquire about that; still, delaminated objectives might be usable until a better option comes by.
5. Phase condenser included - I would inquire about the specific model (a Zeiss catalogue number, for example 465277)

The cons are:
1. Binocular not trinocular - but, as shown by 75RR above, one can find a trino head for a price of between $100-$200 plus shipping. Plus some expenses
for connecting a camera and possibly an additional ocular for the phototube, but those depend on which camera you own/buy and how you connect it.
2. The illuminator appears to be the 6V15W tungsten, which IMO does not yield sufficient brightness for high-mag and phase applications, but the
illumination can be upgraded.

the price does not seem prohibitive and IMO it is only slightly overpriced.
Of course I would inquire about the status of the mechanical controls and options of return, but I believe that this Zeiss Standard 14 is a good buy.
Happy New Year.

[PeteM]

Having owned that model Leitz Dialux, I'd suggest one of the Nikon Labophots would be better. The Leitz is a beautifully built scope, but suffers from somewhat older optics. It will have a narrower field of view, and some slight complications from mixing 160mm and 170mm tube optics (not a show stopper, but I have seen some mismatch of phase annuli). The main thing that would put me off, though, is that the fine focus (while a marvel of manufacturing and accuracy) has a very limited range. This isn't a problem for ordinary microscopy, but it can be an issue for deep focus stacking.

The Zeiss may be closer to $800++ by the time you get a trinocular head? Without looking closely, not sure what complement of phase (?) objectives it comes with -- NeoFluars per Hobbyist. My own Standard has 25x-40x-100x phase NeoFluars -- and I can vouch for the phase image that results. So, that would be a plus. It also wouldn't be that hard to add LED lighting.

[viktor j nilsson]

Note also that the eyepieces on the Zeiss are generic Chinese. The Zeiss objectives requires eyepiece correction, so you would need to add the cost of buying the correct Zeiss eyepieces.

[75RR]

Re-zeiss

Agree with the comments above so mostly restating what has been said.

The good:
Very nice looking microscope - cosmetically in excellent condition.
Excellent Phase objectives
Has Phase condenser
Good to go as is.

Things to think about:
Eyepieces are not original and ideally should be replaced at some point. (Ask if the original ones are still around)
It has 4 place turret which is a little limiting.
Cost of trinocular head needs to be taken into account.
Type of condenser. Should have a catalog number but if not a photo will do.
(It actually does not matter at this point which Phase condenser it has - other that if it is a 0.9 fliptop [which is what it looks like] it gives you a basis to get a discount.)
Illumination will do for now - it can be upgraded, but it is designed to cope.

All in all a very nice microscope. If you can get it for around €400-€450 I would recommend it.

[Glycolyse]

Quick update: I contacted the Zeiss' seller, and I will have my answer this evening or tomorrow morning.

In the mean time, I'd like to ask you some questions about this microscope I found earlier: https://www.ebay.fr/itm/292534994551?ul_noapp=true

International shipping is available. However, it is overpriced by far (Make An Offer is possible). I don't know yet if returns are possible, but, what price is it worth ?

I think there are a lot to say, comparing to the Zeiss Standard 14, especially in terms of objectives.

[Hobbyst46]

The listing says "Retours refusés". At this price, if the microscope is in such fantastic condition as they describe, I would expect that returns would be possible.
The price though is way too high, in my opinion; judging from the prices of other microscopes as shown along this post, $1500 would be a fair price, and I would offer $1000; but I am a poor businessman.
Shipping costs are liable to be around $200 at least, based on the size and weight.
What I do not like about this listing is the "bonus" of an instruction manual. This is not a hard to find item. I just typed in the title in google and downloaded it immediately. But that is sales promotion.

[Glycolyse]

Thanks for your replie Hobbyst. I'll think about it.

[Glycolyse]

Hi everyone,

The Zeiss' seller answered me. He answered me back with care, and a lot of details were put in the mail. I'll mainly post what was said about the specs:

1) The original eyepieces (KPL) were scratched and he couldn't get them back. The Chinese eyepieces are 10/20, and he finds them good as he put Chinese 10/22 eyepieces on his Leitz Dialux 22 EB.

2) The phase condenser is a 46 52 70 Zeiss and works perfectly (a photo was given)

3) He can changes himself the Halogen to LED for 40e or 60e (depending on the upgrade). But it will take 2 weeks.

Photos:

Through the 6,3X and the 100x Ph objectives: https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/20 ... g-2549.jpg
https://www.noelshack.com/2019-01-3-154 ... g-2550.jpg

Observing...

with the 6,3x https://www.noelshack.com/2019-01-3-154 ... 6-3-fn.jpg
with the 16x Ph https://www.noelshack.com/2019-01-3-154 ... -16-ph.jpg
With the 40x Ph https://www.noelshack.com/2019-01-3-154 ... -40-ph.jpg
With the 100x Ph https://www.noelshack.com/2019-01-3-154 ... 100-ph.jpg

I think that I found my microscope, hopefully. My only question is: how do you deal outside Ebay ? He wants to pay by cheque/check. This is the plan he wants: I send the cheque with my ID card while he send me the microscope. If I'm not happy after a few days of receiving the microscope, I send I back and he doesn't take into account the cheque, he sends it back.

Glycolyse

[75RR]

Price?

[Glycolyse]

Price?

575e (shipping included)

[Hobbyst46]

2) The phase condenser is a 46 52 70 Zeiss and works perfectly (a photo was given) 3) He can changes himself the Halogen to LED for 40e or 60e (depending on the upgrade). But it will take 2 weeks.

In my humble opinion:

The phase contrast images are OK, this is not an achromat aplanat condenser so it will be just adequate. Performance will not be the best with the 100X objective since the NA of the condenser is only 0.9, but I think that for your purpose the 16X-40X range is most useful. Anyway, with time, if you wish, a better condenser can be found.

The Chinese eyepieces do not provide the original color correction required by the objectives, but the eye view is still acceptable. For mounting a camera, there are two separate considerations: (a) parfocality between the eyepieces and the camera and/or photo eyepiece, (b) color correction by the photo eyepiece. Both issues are soluble once you have the microscope and camera and decide how interface between them - there are several options.

LED conversion - since the existing bulb is halogen, rather than tungsten, perhaps you can stay with it, although I would not consider 40-60Eu too expensive. However, if you prefer LED, check (before ordering) which LED you prefer - wattage and color temperature (white/warmwhite/neutral white).
Even the tungsten might be sufficient - although in my opinion it is not bright enough.

No opinion about the payment method.

[Glycolyse]

LED conversion - since the existing bulb is halogen, rather than tungsten, perhaps you can stay with it, although I would not consider 40-60Eu too expensive. However, if you prefer LED, check (before ordering) which LED you prefer - wattage and color temperature (white/warmwhite/neutral white).
Even the tungsten might be sufficient - although in my opinion it is not bright enough.

Are you referring to these: https://i0.wp.com/safelumin.com/wp-cont ... 1347&ssl=1 ?

[Hobbyst46]

LED conversion - since the existing bulb is halogen, rather than tungsten, perhaps you can stay with it, although I would not consider 40-60Eu too expensive. However, if you prefer LED, check (before ordering) which LED you prefer - wattage and color temperature (white/warmwhite/neutral white).
Even the tungsten might be sufficient - although in my opinion it is not bright enough.

Are you referring to these: https://i0.wp.com/safelumin.com/wp-cont ... 1347&ssl=1 ?

Yes, I refer to the light color and color temperatures as demonstrated in this link, not to the bulbs themselves, since they are standard home lamp bulbs.
BTW, cool white LEDs often emit a 6000K or 6500K color temperature. Bluish.

[Glycolyse]

Like this ? https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/20 ... -10-10.png

If I had to ask the seller, I'd have no idea. I don't know much on the subject. I'd go neutral white (as white as possible) I think. But the wattage ? No idea...

[Hobbyst46]

Neutral white is probably OK. But several Zeiss Standard users here are experienced in LED conversion. And again, if the halogen works fine with (a) 40X phase contrast and (b) darkfield (this mode needs bright light), no need to convert. So maybe try the halogen first (if you opt for that microscope, that is).

[75RR]

There are a couple of brochures that you should have for reference:

http://www.mikroskop-online.de/Mikrosko ... ologie.pdf

http://www.science-info.net/docs/zeiss/ ... ystems.pdf


I would have been happier if he had come down in price a bit given that it is has a fixed 4 place nosepiece - then again if you are happy with it ... it would be a shame to lose it for refusing to pay a little more.


As to the LED, it might be easier if he tells you how he does it. Some pictures would be helpful.

The best ones look somewhat like this, the LED is screwed on to an aluminum rod that serves as a heat conductor and places it in the same position as the Halogen filament was.

Best also to use a constant current driver rather than pulse width modulation.