First microscope

Do you have any microscopy questions, which you are afraid to ask? This is your place.
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75RR
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Re: First microscope

#31 Post by 75RR » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:27 am

It is tempting to look at microscopes on Ebay USA as they seem to have a larger selection of microscopes for sale at any one time, but remember that not only will you have to pay postage but most likely some tax to bring it into the EU as well.

That means that you have to make extra sure that you are not overpaying for the microscope in the first place.

In my opinion all three of the microscopes you have linked to are above their price level.

I suggest you look at sold prices (they appear in green) for the microscopes you are interested in by accessing the advanced search feature on ebay. That will give you an idea of the current value.

As always when buying second hand - patience is a virtue.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Ni ... 1&_fosrp=1

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=NI ... 1&_fosrp=1

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw= ... Complete=1
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Re: First microscope

#32 Post by Glycolyse » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:49 pm

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your replies and advices.

75RR,
In my opinion all three of the microscopes you have linked to are above their price level.

I suggest you look at sold prices (they appear in green) for the microscopes you are interested in by accessing the advanced search feature on ebay. That will give you an idea of the current value.
I did used the advanced search feature. I looked for specific words such as "trinocular microscope", "phase contrast", etc. with the condition "Used". Also, as you said, I looked at sold prices.

Overall, what could I get with 1000e for a used microscope ? with 800e ? 600e ? I think I'm spending too much time on overpriced items, because I don't really know what I should get for my money.

Glycolyse

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Re: First microscope

#33 Post by 75RR » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:54 pm

When buying a New Something, whatever that might be, it is usually fairly straight forward. You walk into a shop point at what you want and (if it is heavy) stagger out with it.
Internet shopping for new products is much the same, you point at the item you want and pay.

Shopping for second hand or used goods is the exact opposite. In this scenario you don't point and pay - what you do is wait and then wait some more.
What you are waiting for is the right combination of microscope with the fittings you want and at the right price.
Not everybody however has the patience for this way of shopping. It is particularly difficult if what you are after is a first microscope.
It is much easier for the second one as you have something to play with while you wait!

If you have the money you can jump the cue so to speak and buy from a dealer. There is a premium of course.

Here is a link to a pdf that gives an idea of what it costs to re-build a bare stand. It is also useful in that it shows how much more expensive it is to start from scratch.

You should be able to find a similarly equipped microscope (minus the DIC condenser) for around €600. Add half as much again if bought from a fancy dealer.

A Standard 18 or a Standard WL with some of what you want (enough to get you started) can be upgraded in time to just about anything.

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/art ... iss-WL.pdf
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Re: First microscope

#34 Post by Glycolyse » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:53 pm

Hi 75RR,

Thank you for your reply. I read the pdf and I learnt a lot from it.

I found a Trinocular Olympus BH on a reputed French website (confirmed by hobbyists from Le Naturaliste; which means low shipping charges)

2 oculaires 10x GF

5 objectifs plans 4x 10x 25x 40x 100x immersion
Condenseur O.N. 1,25
Platine mobile XY
Eclairage intégré 6v
Prix : 400 €


Image

There is no phase contrast condenser, nor "Ph" objectives. But I assume I could add it later.

What are your thoughts on it ?

Glycolyse

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Re: First microscope

#35 Post by 75RR » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:14 pm

double post
Last edited by 75RR on Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First microscope

#36 Post by 75RR » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:20 pm

Looks like the CHB

http://www.alanwood.net/downloads/olymp ... ochure.pdf
http://www.alanwood.net/downloads/olymp ... ctions.pdf

€400 is a little steep for what is essentially a student microscope, especially if it does not have Phase included.

You need to look into that as it seems to have a phase condenser.

You image is a little small ... can you post a link or add all of the text?

If it were cheaper then perhaps as a starter scope that you would sell in a few months and upgrade to another.
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Re: First microscope

#37 Post by Glycolyse » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:25 pm

Hi 75RR,

Here is the link: http://optilab.free.fr/vente/OLYMPUS%20 ... LAIRE.html

The image does not come larger tho. But you might be right, it looks like there is a phase condenser written on the condenser. My best guess is to call them tomorrow morning, right ?

Glycolyse

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Re: First microscope

#38 Post by 75RR » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:29 pm

Contact einman - see what the postage might be.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6550

Link to manual: http://www.science-info.net/docs/leitz/ ... manual.pdf
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Re: First microscope

#39 Post by Hobbyst46 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:39 pm

Yes I agree with 75RR, this does not look like a BH scope but as CHB. From the illumination port and stage, at least.
A BH-2 would be a better choice than these ones, being expandable and using 45mm parfocality objectives. The CHB takes short barrel objectives (ca 36mm).

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Re: First microscope

#40 Post by photomicro » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:56 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:Yes I agree with 75RR, this does not look like a BH scope but as CHB. From the illumination port and stage, at least.
A BH-2 would be a better choice than these ones, being expandable and using 45mm parfocality objectives. The CHB takes short barrel objectives (ca 36mm).
Yes, the CH series, and it looks to have Nikon objectives on it, so CF types. Can't see if the eyepieces match.

Looks like a phase condenser, but again, a Nikon by the looks of it.

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Re: First microscope

#41 Post by Glycolyse » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:23 pm

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the clarification. I might still call them to confirm about the Olympus.

75RR,
Contact einman - see what the postage might be.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6550
I am open to offers from members of the forum, moreover a reputed one. However, the einman's Leitz Diaplan lacks a phase condenser and phaco objectives. Isn't it a bit too expensive ?

Glycolyse

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Re: First microscope

#42 Post by 75RR » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:32 pm

You can upgrade to Phase.

It is better than the CHB by miles and miles.

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/ind ... aplan.html

However, if the CHB has Phase and the seller is willing to bring the price down a bit then it would make a fair first microscope.

Find out what CHBs are selling for. You want to be able to sell it on at a similar price to what you paid for it when you upgrade.
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Re: First microscope

#43 Post by Glycolyse » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:40 pm

Hi everyone,

75RR, could you explain why the Diaplan is better than CHB please ?

I found this one: "Leitz Ortholux Phasenkontrast Durchlichtmikroskop mit langbrennweitigen Objektiven"

- Leitz EF Objektiv 10x/0,25 Phako1 //EF L 20x/0,32 Phako1 // EF L32x/0,40 Phako 1a
- Leitz Periplan GF 10x M Okulare
- Leuchtfeldblende
- stufenlos regelbare 12V/50W Halogenbeleuchtung mit separatem Regeltrafo
- hoehenverstellbarer Phasenkontrastkondensor mit Aperturblende, Klapplinse und Phasenkontrasteinsaetzen
- X/Y Praeparatefuehrer
- Trinokulartubus
899,00 Euro


The stage seems not to be turned correctly tho ?

from http://www.mikroskop-online.de/mikroskopverkauf.html

Image

Image

What do you guys think of this one ?

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Re: First microscope

#44 Post by Hobbyst46 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:47 pm

It is nice that the stage can be installed either "normally" with the X_Y movement knob near the limb, and roatated by 180 degrees and the knob at front, as in the photo. Less nice IMO that the objectives are not 45 parfocal, it is an older model, and focusing controls are not coaxial.

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Re: First microscope

#45 Post by coominya » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:34 pm

75RR wrote:
However, if the CHB has Phase and the seller is willing to bring the price down a bit then it would make a fair first microscope.
Good advice. In my experience it's always cheaper to buy something "with" the upgrades you want than to upgrade later.

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Re: First microscope

#46 Post by 75RR » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:06 pm

Curiously it looks like a Black Enamel Leitz in white!

A word of caution: That is one of those sites with a high premium price.
... explain why the Diaplan is better than CHB ...
The difference is not so much about the Diaplan as about the Olympus CH.
The Olympus CH is an early Olympus Student microscope. Think economy car.
The Diaplan in comparison is a luxury saloon. Both have wheels and can get from A to B but the build quality and the optics are on a different level as are the options.
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Re: First microscope

#47 Post by Glycolyse » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:25 pm

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your posts.

Hobbyst,
Less nice IMO that the objectives are not 45 parfocal, it is an older model, and focusing controls are not coaxial.
Thank you for pointing that out !

75RR,
The Olympus CH is an early Olympus Student microscope. Think economy car.
The Diaplan in comparison is a luxury saloon. Both have wheels and can get from A to B but the build quality and the optics are on a different level as are the options.
Now I see. I can only wait tomorrow morning to call them and know more about this Olympus CH.

I keep looking at offers... If anyone has reputed sellers on Ebay (within the European Union), or other reputed websites (within the European Union still). I must say my fuel reserve starts to decrease aha.

Thanks for your time and knowledge,

Glycolyse

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Re: First microscope

#48 Post by Glycolyse » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:26 pm

Hi everyone,

I wanted to come back on the Leitz Ortholux II from Mr.Immel.

Leitz Ortholux II (Gebrauchsspuren), Trinokulartubus mit Periplan GF 10x Okularen, 5-fach Objektivrevolver mit 4x (nur Übersichtsokular), 10x, 25x 40x und 100xOil Phaco-Achromat-Objektiven, Kreuztisch mit tiefliegenden Koaxialtrieben rechts, höhenverstellbarer Phasenkontrastrevolverkondensor mit einklappbarer Frontlinse n.A. 0,9 (Ph1,2 und 3 Dunkelfeld und Iris), Leuchtfeldblende mit 6V15W Beleuchtung und stufenlos regelbarem Trafo " 1200,00 €

Image

Other pictures: http://www.atroplan.com/images/IMG_13088_16043.JPG
http://www.atroplan.com/images/IMG_13088_16047.JPG
http://www.atroplan.com/images/IMG_13088_16045.JPG

You guys said it was overpriced. How much this microscope should cost ? Should I negotiate with the seller ?

Glycolyse

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Re: First microscope

#49 Post by 75RR » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:59 am

This is the google translate version of the blurb:

Leitz Ortholux II (signs of wear), trinocular tube with Periplan GF 10x eyepieces, 5x objective nosepiece with 4x (overview eyepiece only), 10x, 25x 40x and 100xOil Phaco achromat lenses, cross table with low-lying coaxial drives on the right, height-adjustable phase-contrast revolver condenser with retractable front lens n.A. 0.9 (Ph1,2 and 3 darkfield and iris), field diaphragm with 6V15W illumination and steplessly adjustable transformer

If I read that right the condenser is 0.9 which means you will not be able to use the 100 PH oil
also all the objectives are achromats - that is the cheapest available.

So what is wrong with it ... why the price!

Have a look at the Zeiss he is selling - they are also overpriced.
None of the Zeiss Standard 18s he is selling are worth €1200 in that configuration either.
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Re: First microscope

#50 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:14 am

I would think about this one, the Listed asking price is higher than the above but it is a complete Nikon system, and Make Offer is an option
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Mikroskop-Nikon ... rk:10:pf:0
I am no expert on Nikon but the specs are not bad (one drawback that I saw - if the FOV is 15.5mm it is smoewhat small) - Provided that it is mechanically OK, especially the focus

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Re: First microscope

#51 Post by viktor j nilsson » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:26 am

The Nikon Hobbyst46 linked to looks very, very good. The CFN series objectives are splendid, works great with both phase contrast and brightfield. You would need to get a pair of Nikon CFW eyepieces, but those are not too expensive. Pretty odd to see such a relatively high-end setup with mismatched eyepieces!

It would cost quite a lot to put that scope together piece by piece. If phase contrast is important to you, that's a very good setup.

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Re: First microscope

#52 Post by viktor j nilsson » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:28 am

The FOV of 15.5 is just for the old and mismatched Zeiss Jena eyepieces. The correct ones are Nikon CFW 10x/20mm FOV.

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Re: First microscope

#53 Post by Glycolyse » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:24 am

Hi everyone,
I would think about this one, the Listed asking price is higher than the above but it is a complete Nikon system, and Make Offer is an option
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Mikroskop-Nikon ... rk:10:pf:0
I am no expert on Nikon but the specs are not bad (one drawback that I saw - if the FOV is 15.5mm it is smoewhat small) - Provided that it is mechanically OK, especially the focus
Thank you for the link. This is a nice microscope. How much should I "Make An Offer" ? Also, I saw no return ("Keine Rücknahme").

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Re: First microscope

#54 Post by 75RR » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:54 am

These are the "sold" results of a search on ebay for Nikon Labophot 2:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... 1&_fosrp=1
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Re: First microscope

#55 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:03 am

Glycolyse wrote: How much should I "Make An Offer" ? Also, I saw no return ("Keine Rücknahme").
No return should be taken into account in the transaction of course. Perhaps inquire with the seller.
About the how much to offer? ??? I do not not know. Sometimes a 90% of the asking is rejected, sometimes a 75% of the asking is accepted, I have even read posts saying that an offer of 1/3-1/2 the asking price had been accepted.

The link to a list of "sold" shown above by 75RR is important info. There are several microscopes, not all of them in known working condition, and 1-2 low-price items where the picture shows a complete microscope, but sold item was actually just a small adapter!

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Re: First microscope

#56 Post by viktor j nilsson » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:41 am

It's pretty hard to find compables to assess what is a fair price since the US and European markets are so different. Here's an interesting comparison, at it has a bit in common with the one you are looking at:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Optiphot ... cvip-panel

Sold for £395

Similarities: 1) well regarded model 2) slightly better than average optics (two high NA fluor lenses, two pretty good phase objectives) 3) also lacks suitable eyepieces 4) trinocular head 5) located in Europe

Differences: 1) seller offers returns 2) lacks a low power objective 3) less well described, seller doesn't seem as knowledgeable 4) has epi illumination 5) a little older optics

What to make of this? I don't know, I don't want to say a number as it feels as if you are just waiting to push the button and I can't determine what it is really worth to you. I think that sellers that know what they are selling and describe them well (as the German one) should get paid a fair price. If he or she offered returns, there would be very few red flags with that listing. With my current needs, I wouldn't pay that price or even 70% of it. But maybe someone would, it's clearly a very good scope.

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Re: First microscope

#57 Post by Glycolyse » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:01 pm

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your replies. Your technical knowledge is priceless for a beginner.

I have to call Optilab.free.fr for their Olympus microscope. Here were the specs:

MICROSCOPE OLYMPUS BH TRINOCULAIRE
2 oculaires 10x GF

5 objectifs plans 4x 10x 25x 40x 100x immersion
Condenseur O.N. 1,25
Platine mobile XY
Eclairage intégré 6v
Prix : 400 €

Pic: http://optilab.free.fr/vente/OLYMPUS-BH ... ULAIRE.jpg

These are what I'll ask them:

- What Olympus microscope is this one ? You say BH Olympus, but it clearly looks like a CHB one.
- Are the oculars/objectives free from delimitation and fungus ?
- On the photo, I see a Nikon Phase Condenser. Is it the case, is it included in the price ?
- On the photo, I see Nikon objectives. Is it the case ? You mentioned they are all plan, are they made for Phase Condenser (Phaco) ?
- What are the oculars ?
- Is it LED or Halogen ?
- Can you send more photos of the microscope ?


What else should I ask them ?

Glycolyse

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Re: First microscope

#58 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:16 pm

Glycolyse wrote: - What Olympus microscope is this one ? You say BH Olympus, but it clearly looks like a CHB one.
What else should I ask them ?

1. I copied the photo of the microscope into a photo manager software and enlarged it. A sticker with the name "CHB" is clearly visible on the inner side of the microscope arm, above the back edge of the stage, a little hidden in the shade.
2. I would ask whether the following controls:
(a) focusing movement,
(b) condenser movement up and down
(c) condenser turret rotation
(d) stage movement
(e) interpupilary distance setting,
are smooth throughout their full range.

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Re: First microscope

#59 Post by Glycolyse » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:23 pm

Hi Hobbyst,

Thanks for you addition. I also added to the questions:
- Are the objectives 160mm DIN ?
- Is return possible ?

By the way, what do I need to ask for the light to work properly ? I'm not quite familiar with "Transformers", things like that.

I'll wait for more members additions before calling them. (approx. 1h)

Glycolyse

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Re: First microscope

#60 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:03 pm

0. A small typo: the lens problem is "delamination", not delimitation.

1. A transformer is a small (a few centimeters) device which lowers or increases electrical voltage. In this case, it would lower the wall socket supply voltage, which is either 220-240V (e. g. Europe) or 110V (e. g. USA) to 6V or 12V which are common in the illuminator of a micropscope.

2. The excellent AlanWood Olympus web site provides links to a wide selection of Olympus microscope models, including the CHB. You can find there specs and even repair manuals - thanks a lot, Alan, for this rich information!

3. The manual hints that the original bulb of the CHB microscope is 20W tungsten, not halogen, and perhaps 220V. if so, a transformer would not be needed. But I am not sure, perhaps it is 6V 20W tungsten, which needs a 220V to 6V transformer (a transformer is commonly abbreviated as "trafo").
So it is a good idea to ask about the details of the illuminator. Tungsten in general is less bright than halogen. Halogen bulbs are easier to find on the market. A LED would have been a non-original custom made modification, that might need a converter from 220VAC to probably 12VDC (LEDs operate on direct current).

4. Might also ask whether there is an ocular in the photo tube.

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