First microscope

Do you have any microscopy questions, which you are afraid to ask? This is your place.
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Glycolyse
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Re: First microscope

#61 Post by Glycolyse » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:12 pm

Hi everyone,

Well, no luck I guess. I called them. Unfortunately, I couldn't ask one single question, because it was already sold. In fact, the website was not updated for a while, so that's why. He claimed to have a "BBT" phase contrast microscope tho, an old French brand.

Glycolyse

Hobbyst46
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Re: First microscope

#62 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:55 pm

Not to worry, there is a good chance that you will find a better one!

By the way, a different low budget strategy might be the North American eBay. According to the US POST web site, shipping costs to Europe should be around $200 or less for a decent microscope, where the package size is 20-25" and weight of 40 pounds or less. That sounds expensive, but is balanced by the options of inexpensive used American Optical scopes. Very nice photos on this forum have demonstrated the high quality of AO scopes. Myself, only worked with an AO 570 stereoscope for a while, and it was a pleasure.

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Glycolyse
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Re: First microscope

#63 Post by Glycolyse » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:53 pm

Hi Hobbyst,

Thanks for the advice. However, I'd like to stick to the Big 4. And spending that much money only for shipping is kinda disappointing... Don't you think ?

By the way, how could I improve my search ? When I'm searching on Ebay, I tend to use the "Best Match" option, but I assume the "Newly listed" option is more convenient.

Glycolyse

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75RR
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Re: First microscope

#64 Post by 75RR » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:47 pm

There is a Zeiss Standard 18 with phase. No trinocular head and it needs a power supply but it would be a start.

Condenser is a fliptop 0.9 so you would not be able to use the 100 phase objective with it until you upgrade.

Asking price is a silly £1000 but seller accepts offers. I suggest you offer £350 and see what happens.

What do forum members think?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carl-Zeiss-M ... rk:39:pf:0

Note: Read shipping details and return policy at bottom of page.
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viktor j nilsson
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Re: First microscope

#65 Post by viktor j nilsson » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:02 pm

Though 100x oil would still be useful with a NA0.9 condenser, right? You just won't get the full resolution. It's not like it doesn't produce an image.

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75RR
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Re: First microscope

#66 Post by 75RR » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:07 pm

You would need to oil it so it would have to wait for another condenser.
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photomicro
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Re: First microscope

#67 Post by photomicro » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:18 pm

Glycolyse wrote:Hi Hobbyst,

Thanks for the advice. However, I'd like to stick to the Big 4. And spending that much money only for shipping is kinda disappointing... Don't you think ?

By the way, how could I improve my search ? When I'm searching on Ebay, I tend to use the "Best Match" option, but I assume the "Newly listed" option is more convenient.

Glycolyse
Yes, since you are looking regularly, this is the best option, otherwise you see what you have seen before, plus, you only see what the system "thinks" is the best match.

What do you see as the 'Big 4' BTW?

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Re: First microscope

#68 Post by viktor j nilsson » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:25 pm

You would of course need to an oiled high NA condenser for maximum performance, but you would still get a useful image even with an dry 0.9 condenser.

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Re: First microscope

#69 Post by viktor j nilsson » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:29 pm

Glycolyse wrote:Hi Hobbyst,

By the way, how could I improve my search ? When I'm searching on Ebay, I tend to use the "Best Match" option, but I assume the "Newly listed" option is more convenient.
Save a lot of different searches and check the results every day. Good bargains tend to 1) be buy-it-now items that very sell fast, or 2) are auctions with short duration. So almost everything you'll find on eBay right now will be overpriced items that will never sell at the listed price.

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75RR
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Re: First microscope

#70 Post by 75RR » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:30 pm

viktor j nilsson wrote:You would of course need to an oiled high NA condenser for maximum performance, but you would still get a useful image even with an dry 0.9 condenser.
I have the same condenser and a similar objective. I will do a test and see what it is like.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
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Re: First microscope

#71 Post by viktor j nilsson » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:34 pm

75RR wrote:
viktor j nilsson wrote:You would of course need to an oiled high NA condenser for maximum performance, but you would still get a useful image even with an dry 0.9 condenser.
I have a similar condenser and objective. I will do a test and see what it is like.
Looking forward to it! I would had done it myself if I was at home.

The only comparison I found in a quick searcg was this 0.95 dry vs 1.40 oiled, although it's DIC so perhaps not a fair comparison:

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 2d14b30bef

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Re: First microscope

#72 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:08 pm

The Zeiss Standard mentioned by 75RR seems a plausible option; here are some comments.
Pros - Includes a set of objectives, covering the useful Phase contrast range
Includes PC condenser
Includes an Optovar
One of the 8X KPL eyepieces can be used in the photo tube
Cons - Low eyepoint 8X KPL eyepieces, less convenient than WF
Stage control knobs on one side of the stage only at the same height as the stage
No 10X and lower mag objectives
Not trinocular
Missing Power supply.
Not very bright lamp if it is the 6V15W tungsten.


Does anyone recognize the objective designation "D.Z.Ox"?

A trino head, objective, eyepieces and stage can all be replaced with time if wanted. Power supply - I would strive to install a halogen or LED anyway.

But, what worries me is that if there is no transformer, how does the seller know that the microscope is in good working condition??
In particular, how free are the optiocal parts from delamination?

On the other hand, the seller accepts returns so it is not a big risk.

So, in all, I agree with 75RR that it is a start, and deserves a price offer by the buyer.

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Re: First microscope

#73 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:19 pm

viktor j nilsson wrote:
75RR wrote:
viktor j nilsson wrote:You would of course need to an oiled high NA condenser for maximum performance, but you would still get a useful image even with an dry 0.9 condenser.
I have a similar condenser and objective. I will do a test and see what it is like.
Looking forward to it! I would had done it myself if I was at home.

The only comparison I found in a quick searcg was this 0.95 dry vs 1.40 oiled, although it's DIC so perhaps not a fair comparison:

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 2d14b30bef
The linked post is indeed an exhaustive discussion. I noticed, however, that the 0.95 objective as well as the 1.4 objective were oiled to the coverslip, so the 0.95 was not really used "dry".

desertrat
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Re: First microscope

#74 Post by desertrat » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:34 pm

Since I'm on a budget, I'm a fan of older AO/Spencer equipment. Performance seems to be decent, although probably cannot compete with more modern optics.

But I can see how shipping charges would really increase the cost of these scopes and accessories to Europe. Also a conversion transformer would be needed to use the 120 volt illumination transformer, but these probably aren't hard to find in Europe.

Another thought, just throwing it out for discussion, is UK isn't far from France, although I don't know how much higher shipping charges would be.

The last UK companies making microscopes were (I think) Watson and Vickers. I saw some posts over at the Yahoo group, several years ago, that some of these microscopes were pretty decent performance wise, and can sometimes be had at fairly low cost. I imagine the last models were available with phase contrast, but don't know if more advanced illumination like DIC was available.

I took a quick stroll over to Ebay UK, but didn't see many examples of these brands today. Maybe in a week or two something more promising might show up.

Some members here probably have experience with these, as to whether they are useful or worth having these days. Have never used one myself, they are seldom seen here.
Rick

A/O 10 Series Microstar
A/O 4 Series Microstar
A/O 4 Series Phasestar
A/O 4 Series Apostar
A/O Cycloptic Stereo
Several old monocular scopes in more or less decrepit but usable condition

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Glycolyse
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Re: First microscope

#75 Post by Glycolyse » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:12 pm

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your posts. As I read them, the listing of the Zeiss Standard 18 ended. It went quickly lol.
What do you see as the 'Big 4' BTW?
I mean Zeiss, Olympus, Nikon and Leica/Leitz


I keep looking for offers.

Glycolyse

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75RR
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Re: First microscope

#76 Post by 75RR » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:20 pm

Thanks for your posts. As I read them, the listing of the Zeiss Standard 18 ended. It went quickly lol.
Wasn't sold, just ended. Seller is sure to re-post soon.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
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Re: First microscope

#77 Post by Glycolyse » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:25 pm

Wasn't sold, just ended. Seller is sure to re-post soon.
Alright, I'll make sure to not miss the listing, thanks for the clarification 75RR !

Glycolyse

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Glycolyse
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Re: First microscope

#78 Post by Glycolyse » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:50 pm

Hi everyone,

This Nikon is in very good shape, judging from the photos.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Alphapho ... 0008.m2219

It is overpriced, no trinocular head, nor return. Should I contact the seller to negotiate the price (to, I don't know, maybe 700$ ?) and to see if return is possible ?

Glycolyse

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Re: First microscope

#79 Post by 75RR » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:58 pm

Should I contact the seller to negotiate the price (to, I don't know, maybe 700$ ?) and to see if return is possible ?
I suppose you can try but note that the seller does not ask for offers.
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Re: First microscope

#80 Post by viktor j nilsson » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:11 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:
viktor j nilsson wrote:
75RR wrote: I have a similar condenser and objective. I will do a test and see what it is like.
Looking forward to it! I would had done it myself if I was at home.

The only comparison I found in a quick searcg was this 0.95 dry vs 1.40 oiled, although it's DIC so perhaps not a fair comparison:

http://www.photomacrography.net/forum/v ... 2d14b30bef
The linked post is indeed an exhaustive discussion. I noticed, however, that the 0.95 objective as well as the 1.4 objective were oiled to the coverslip, so the 0.95 was not really used "dry".
I thought that that was exactly situation that we discussed? Of course you need to oil the objective to the slide, otherwise the image is terrible. The question was how useful a 100x 1.25 oil objective would be if your only condenser is a NA 0.9 one.

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Glycolyse
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Re: First microscope

#81 Post by Glycolyse » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:38 pm

I have sent a message to the seller. I hope he will be willing to accept my offer, I only have a glimmer of hope for this one (but nothing ventured, nothing gained, right ?), so I keep looking for good offers at the same time.

Glycolyse

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Re: First microscope

#82 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:56 pm

For a reference ALphaphot, see this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Alphapho ... :rk:6:pf:0
Quite similar to the one you showed, binocular, no returns, it has a phase contrast condenser and four objectives, 4X, 10X (perhaps), 40X and 100X, but I do not see that any of them is phase contrast. Asking $250 plus shipping from USA. The aphaphot is a small lightweight entry level microscope, not a system microscope, so postage cost will be relatively low even from the USA.

BTW a huge number of Alphaphot are for sale on eBay, all at quite low prices, and all of them are configured for brightfield only, and are binocular.

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Re: First microscope

#83 Post by 75RR » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:09 am

I think that based on Hobbyst46's last post i.e. 'For a reference ALphaphot, see this' you need to start doing more homework on every microscope you are interested in.

The homework:

1) Find out about the microscope.

There are basically three types of compound microscope - Student (the simplest) - Laboratory (basic) - Research (very upgradable)
Within these three groups a manufacturer may have more than one model which varied in options and price.
The build quality of the microscopes varied with the decade they were manufactured in.
If they are very old then technology itself was a limiting factor - if relatively new then cost savings rather than technology is a factor - read plastic.


2) Find out what the average cost of the microscope is on ebay (look at sold prices)

3) Find out the cost and availability of any upgrades you may want for it - now and in the future.


Read through this booklet while you wait for the next interesting batch of microscopes to go on sale on ebay:

http://www.quekett.org/resources/understanding
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Re: First microscope

#84 Post by Glycolyse » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:59 pm

Hi 75RR,

Quality resources you posted. I enjoyed reading all the parts, especially n°12 and "Theory of contrast control". It will make my search more defined than last time.

Glycolyse

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Glycolyse
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Re: First microscope

#85 Post by Glycolyse » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:01 pm

Hi everyone,

Quick update: Nothing on the Ebay market about Phase contrasts microscopes that is worth to consider..

Glycolyse

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Re: First microscope

#86 Post by 75RR » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:11 pm

Quick update: Nothing on the Ebay market about Phase contrasts microscopes that is worth to consider..
Zeiss Standard 18 Phase microscope relisted!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carl-Zeiss-M ... rk:13:pf:0
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)

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Re: First microscope

#87 Post by Glycolyse » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:43 pm

75RR wrote:Standard 18 Phase microscope relisted!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carl-Zeiss-M ... rk:13:pf:0
Thanks 75RR !

So this is what have been said about this microscope:
No trinocular head and it needs a power supply but it would be a start.
Condenser is a fliptop 0.9 so you would not be able to use the 100 phase objective with it until you upgrade.
Asking price is a silly £1000 but seller accepts offers. I suggest you offer £350 and see what happens.
Pros - Includes a set of objectives, covering the useful Phase contrast range
Includes PC condenser
Includes an Optovar
One of the 8X KPL eyepieces can be used in the photo tube
Cons - Low eyepoint 8X KPL eyepieces, less convenient than WF
Stage control knobs on one side of the stage only at the same height as the stage
No 10X and lower mag objectives
Not trinocular
Missing Power supply.
Not very bright lamp if it is the 6V15W tungsten.
A trino head, objective, eyepieces and stage can all be replaced with time if wanted. Power supply - I would strive to install a halogen or LED anyway.
But, what worries me is that if there is no transformer, how does the seller know that the microscope is in good working condition??
In particular, how free are the optiocal parts from delamination?
I have a few questions about this microscope.

1) Is it easy to replace the binocular head by a trinocular head, and is it expensive and easy to find ?
2) Is it easy to install a halogen or LED light, how much would it cost ?
3) About the power supply, what it is exactly when we are talking about microscopes ?
4) Could we talk about the "there is no transformer, how does the seller know that the microscope is in good working condition" thing ?

Sorry for the annoying questions. I want to make sure everything is fine, since it misses some features I would really like to have, so I am in a doubtful mood.

Glycolyse

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Re: First microscope

#88 Post by PeteM » Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:22 pm

I have half a dozen phase contrast microscopes with trinocular heads -- noted if only to give you the patience to wait for something closer. These are scopes mean for our "Micronaut" program. All would be in the $600 to $900 range; including trinocular Nikon Optiphot and Labophot, trinocular Nikon S and Zeiss Standard (with a 10x finder and 25x-40x-100x phase NeoFluars) already converted to LED, and a Reichert MicroStar IV (teaching head adapted for photos). An AO Series 10 scope with phase contrast and a trinocular head would be even cheaper -- and better suited to kids and parents.

If you're looking at Ebay scopes from afar, I'd suggest searching for some of the smaller stands to save on shipping (and make it less likely to be damaged in handling) -- and taking your time to find a fair deal.

In answer to your questions about the Zeiss Standard you've found:

1) It's hard, in my experience, to find a trinocular head (I waited 6 months to find one), but easy to replace if you find a proper one.

2) LED conversions are pretty easy. Just make sure the LED die ends up in the same place as the old filament. My Zeiss Standard looks to be about the same generation as the Ebay listing (gray stand) noted above. The LED conversion was done with a 100+ lumen single die LED flashlight with three brightness settings, with the barrel turned down in a lathe to be a close slip fit and a stop collar to keep it in the right position. It's powered by a rechargeable lithium battery, so it's portable but also easy to keep running for hours at a time with a spare. Also kept the old tungsten bulb housing; but much prefer the brighter and constant-color LED.

3) Depending upon the vintage, Zeiss scopes reduced and varied the voltage to a tungsten (old) or halogen (somewhat newer) lamp with either an external or internal power supply. It's usually pretty easy to replace missing external power supplies.

4) Good question -- perhaps the seller hooked up another supply to test it??

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Re: First microscope

#89 Post by 75RR » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:44 pm

Any of the first 6 heads would be suitable. Numbers 1 and 6 are 100/0 and 20/80 while the others are 100/0 and 0/100

There do seem to be more trinocular heads available in the USA, so shipping has to be taken into account.

Sold trinocular heads: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw= ... Complete=1

A black one in the UK is available. Unfortunately not colour coordinated with the rest of the microscope and also a bit too expensive. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carl-Zeiss-m ... :rk:1:pf:0
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
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Re: First microscope

#90 Post by Glycolyse » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:42 pm

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your replies, it is much appreciated.

PeteM,
I have half a dozen phase contrast microscopes with trinocular heads -- noted if only to give you the patience to wait for something closer. These are scopes mean for our "Micronaut" program. All would be in the $600 to $900 range; including trinocular Nikon Optiphot and Labophot, trinocular Nikon S and Zeiss Standard (with a 10x finder and 25x-40x-100x phase NeoFluars) already converted to LED, and a Reichert MicroStar IV (teaching head adapted for photos). An AO Series 10 scope with phase contrast and a trinocular head would be even cheaper -- and better suited to kids and parents.
I didn't quite understand this part. Did you say you are selling trinocular phase contrast microscopes ?

Overall, as I am not a handyman by nature, I'd like to stick to a microscope with everything already mounted - which explains why I am doubtful about the Zeiss Standard.

Glycolyse

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