Eye floaters

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GOLGO13
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Eye floaters

#1 Post by GOLGO13 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:50 pm

I am new to microscopy, but have been doing telescopes for 15+ years. I knew I had some eye floater issues when using small refractors with small exit pupils at high magnifications. One time I even thought I had a defective eyepiece, but it turned out to me my floaters.

In astronomy, these are mostly issues at small exit pupils. However, with the compound microscope, I seem to have them really bad right away. I'm using an older B&L microscope. My wife confirmed that she didn't really see any when she looked through the eyepieces. So it's likely just me.

I have an autoimmune disease (Hashimotos Thyroiditis which caused hypothryoidism) which I am just starting to get under control...so it's possible that's why I have them.

My question is...is there anything I can do to minimize these? They are not obvious in the stereo scope, and I assume that's because you really do use both eyes. Plus it's pretty low powers.

Any idea what kind of exit pupils occur with microscopes? Any differences between microscopes?

billbillt
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Re: Eye floaters

#2 Post by billbillt » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:05 pm

I HAVE ALWAYS HAD THIS.. NOW I JUST IGNORE IT..

MichaelG.
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Re: Eye floaters

#3 Post by MichaelG. » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:57 pm

Floaters are an unfortunate fact of life, I'm afraid

High magnifications tend to accentuate the visibility of them.
... Use good illumination, high NA objectives, and low magnification wide-field eyepieces.

MichaelG.
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75RR
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Re: Eye floaters

#4 Post by 75RR » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:25 pm

I find that adjusting the height of the chair and its position in relation to the microscope changes the angle that one looks through the eyepieces, that usually helps.
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desertrat
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Re: Eye floaters

#5 Post by desertrat » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:39 pm

Starting about 5 years ago, the vitreous sac in my right eye started to detach. The ophthalmologist said there was no damage to my retina, but there were lots of floaters. A couple of years later my left eye did the same thing. Now there are tons of floaters in both eyes. According to internet searches, these kinds of detachments are common in old folks, and usually aren't very harmful. I don't notice them a lot anymore except when I'm at the eyepiece of a telescope, binoculars, or microscope. Then I notice them a lot. Sometimes they interfere with trying to resolve tiny details in what I'm viewing.

Isn't getting old great?
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Tom Jones
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Re: Eye floaters

#6 Post by Tom Jones » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:05 am

GOLGO13,

Ignoring your floaters is something that is pretty much universally recommended. It's generally good advice for most people.

However, if they are really debilitating, you actually have a couple of choices to get rid of them. It will be a bit of a slog to convince the average ophthalmologist you need it done, but if they're really bad...

Choice 1 is a vitrectomy to remove the vitreous, and with it most of the floaters. Relatively simple, about 15 minute surgery, but not without potentially serious complications. Google vitrectomy floaters. Insurance will generally pay for it. Usually considered a permanent fix.

Choice 2 is Laser Vitreolysis using a YAG laser. Safer than vitrectomy, but a lot harder to find an ophthalmologist with the equipment and qualifications to do it. Google laser vitreolysis floaters.

I did a lot of research 10 years ago, (after 40 years working in a hospital lab my level of trust isn't real high) and then had the laser vitreolysis. It took four visits and many hundreds of laser shots, but I was very happy with the outcome. It's just now getting to the point I need to schedule a follow up for a repeat treatment series. I don't know where you are located, but there is an ophthalmologist I went to in Southern California whose practice is only laser floater treatment. These folks are few and far between. It wasn't cheap, something North of $4K, and at least in my case insurance didn't pay for it, but I think it was well worth it, and I don't have any qualms about going back. I was even pleasantly surprised to find out the FAA even approved of it and it didn't affect my flight physical. Microscopy was MUCH easier with them gone.

Tom

MicroBob
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Re: Eye floaters

#7 Post by MicroBob » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:23 am

This is probably the same phenomenon as the Coolpix-rings. Around year 2000 it was common to use a Nikon Coolpix 9xxx as a microscope camera as it was very easy to connect to a certain Leitz eyepiece. The imgage quality was good, but at high magnifications rings showed in the images. Reason was the way some plastic lenses in the camera lens were manufactured.
I don't have many floaters so I can't test it. My impression is that eyepieces are very different from the view they offer. Microscope eyepieces are available in diffferent magnifications, field sizes, angles of view and eye relief values, but I don't know which combination would be the best.
A stereo microscope usually uses the same 10x eyepieces as a compound microscope, so this is not the difference.

Today many microscopists use a full-HD or even 4K video camera and a screen for observation. There may be some disadvantages, but also many advantages, so this might be the solution here.

Bob

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Re: Eye floaters

#8 Post by gastrotrichman » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:30 pm

I had cataract surgery on my left eye, and now have lots of floaters in that eye. I find that they're more bothersome at high magnification. MicroBob's approach works for me … I do critical focusing, etc. on the computer screen.
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einman
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Re: Eye floaters

#9 Post by einman » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:17 pm

Well since we are sharing..I have had 2 surgeries for retina detachment and have lots of floaters due to vitrous fluid detachment as well. 2 really large ones that often result in my swiping at non existent flies!

As mentioned depending on how you hold your head and the settings on your condenser etc they can be minimized. Although if really bad, you can resort to viewing on a monitor.

In regards to the surgery I have asked more than once and have been generally discouraged. Removal of the fluid could result in additional retina damage, or so I was told. The laser option remains open.

houstontx
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Re: Eye floaters

#10 Post by houstontx » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:57 am

I had hashimotos. To help get it under control take 200mcg selenium supplement a day for a couple months, then taper off to once or twice a week, do the same with some good quality fish oil. Take magnesium glycinate before bed or whenever you want. Finally, go gluten free & lower carbs a bit or a lot. No levothyroxine necessary! Antibodies went from 550, to 350, to 150 to 90 and then I stopped going to the Drs. Feeling better and most importantly, NO INSOMNIA! Good luck, you can beat it!

To be honest, I feel that I may have had high amounts of floaters before & now I'm not bothered by it as much, so you may be on to something!

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Mintaka
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Re: Eye floaters

#11 Post by Mintaka » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:42 am

If the floaters only manifest whilst working at the eyepiece, how about switching to the live view on a monitor instead? Microscopy may well be moving in that direction anyway.

einman
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Re: Eye floaters

#12 Post by einman » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:59 pm

Generally you tend to ignore floaters over time or they settle to the bottom of the eye and are not noticeable. The significant floaters I have are "tethered" as it were to the lining of the eye and as such float like balloons. Should they finally break free they may settle given their size. There is no supplement regimen proven effective against age related floaters, that I am aware of. I have a degree in nutrition and chemistry ,studying natural pharmacological actives is a hobby. I owned several franchised nutritional supplement stores at one time. I have found nothing to date in terms of "chemistries to treat age related floaters. Anything effective against floaters would theoretically also interact with the healthy vitreous. Of course if you have a disease resulting in eye inflammation, which can contribute to floaters, that is a different story!

GOLGO13
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Re: Eye floaters

#13 Post by GOLGO13 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:28 pm

I got another microscope which has a mirror for illumination. I find I have less floater issues using the mirror and daylight. I put this new microscope on the Dickenson setup my other microscope is on and the floaters were back. So it appears to be related on how I illuminate the microscope. I'm going to try some different lightbulbs to see if it helps.

At high powers, I do see the floaters in both setups.

Kind of similar to telescopes...higher power (smaller exit pupil), more floaters.

GOLGO13
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Re: Eye floaters

#14 Post by GOLGO13 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:31 pm

houstontx wrote:I had hashimotos. To help get it under control take 200mcg selenium supplement a day for a couple months, then taper off to once or twice a week, do the same with some good quality fish oil. Take magnesium glycinate before bed or whenever you want. Finally, go gluten free & lower carbs a bit or a lot. No levothyroxine necessary! Antibodies went from 550, to 350, to 150 to 90 and then I stopped going to the Drs. Feeling better and most importantly, NO INSOMNIA! Good luck, you can beat it!

To be honest, I feel that I may have had high amounts of floaters before & now I'm not bothered by it as much, so you may be on to something!
I've been working on Selenium also. I need to work on Magnesium. Also gluten free and dairy free.

I'm not sure I'll be able to go off the medicine though. I believe my thyroid has a lot of damage. My TSH was 71 when they found it. But, anything that helped you put it into remission is good for me also...Better to stop it from doing more damage.

Thanks for the info!!

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Radazz
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Re: Eye floaters

#15 Post by Radazz » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:25 am

I have quite a few in both eyes. Sometimes i have to shake my head to rearrange them when I’m observing. When I’m doing photography, I’m looking at a laptop screen when framing and focusing and they’re not as noticeable. Working on cataracts as well, but they are not bad enough for Medicare to pay for them. :evil:
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