Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

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Prime
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Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#1 Post by Prime » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:41 pm

Hi, I just wanted to learn that, if a microscope can work with an objective and a eyepiece ? A great microscope is very expensive for my budget. So I decided that I am going to build one myself. I'm going to buy lenses(eyepiece and objective) and print the other parts with a 3d printer. Soo, should I buy just a eyepiece and 3 objectives. Do I need some other lenses ?

apochronaut
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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#2 Post by apochronaut » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:30 pm

How about plywood and a scroll saw. Even cheaper. You can probably find the plywood in a dumpster and borrow the tools from a tool library.

Prime
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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#3 Post by Prime » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:37 pm

apochronaut wrote:How about plywood and a scroll saw. Even cheaper. You can probably find the plywood in a dumpster and borrow the tools from a tool library.
Maybe. I want to 3d print them because the micro scroll etc. must be very detailed. But what about lenses ? A eyepiece and an objective enough to see something ?

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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#4 Post by Hobbyst46 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:18 pm

Prime wrote:
apochronaut wrote:How about plywood and a scroll saw. Even cheaper. You can probably find the plywood in a dumpster and borrow the tools from a tool library.
Maybe. I want to 3d print them because the micro scroll etc. must be very detailed. But what about lenses ? A eyepiece and an objective enough to see something ?
A microscope is indeed a combination of an objective and an eyepiece. However, it is a complex precision instrument that makes it possible to accurately position the specimen in front of the objective, the distance being controlled within a 1/100,000 part of a centimeter accuracy or less, under perfectly uniform illumination. IMHO, the best introduction to microscopy would be reading about microscopy and the structure of the microscope, as well as hands-on experience. A 1-2 hours of actually using a microscope - the simplest student/demonstration model will suffice. One needs to become acquainted with focusing, horizontal positioning with the stage, and light beam adjustment will reveal the amount of mechanical complexity involved and the likelihood of success via 3D printing.
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Prime
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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#5 Post by Prime » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:35 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:
Prime wrote:
apochronaut wrote:How about plywood and a scroll saw. Even cheaper. You can probably find the plywood in a dumpster and borrow the tools from a tool library.
Maybe. I want to 3d print them because the micro scroll etc. must be very detailed. But what about lenses ? A eyepiece and an objective enough to see something ?
A microscope is indeed a combination of an objective and an eyepiece. However, it is a complex precision instrument that makes it possible to accurately position the specimen in front of the objective, the distance being controlled within a 1/100,000 part of a centimeter accuracy or less, under perfectly uniform illumination. IMHO, the best introduction to microscopy would be reading about microscopy and the structure of the microscope, as well as hands-on experience. A 1-2 hours of actually using a microscope - the simplest student/demonstration model will suffice. One needs to become acquainted with focusing, horizontal positioning with the stage, and light beam adjustment will reveal the amount of mechanical complexity involved and the likelihood of success via 3D printing.
Yes, I agree that I should read about microscopy because (I don't know if it is about my bad English or my knowledge about microscopy, or both :D) I don't think that I understood enough of what you wrote :/ .

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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#6 Post by PeteM » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:42 pm

Might want to do a search on "Nuremberg" and "Culpeper" type microscopes. Simple microscopes have a centuries' old history -- and could no doubt be updated with 3D printing. For example:http://golubcollection.berkeley.edu/nuremberg.html

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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#7 Post by MicroBob » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:03 pm

It is possible to design a microscope from a 3D-printed body and some metal parts. But using 3D-printing actually makes it very diffcult to come to an acceptable design. And this is where the problem lies: The question you ask show that you don't know much about designing things and nothing about microscopes. This is not the best preparation for someone who wants to design something complicated.

What type of microscope are you trying to build?

In most parts of the world a used simple monocular microscope can be had for less money than a new eyepiece and one objective. Where do you live?

Bob

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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#8 Post by iconoclastica » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:50 pm

apochronaut wrote:How about plywood and a scroll saw. Even cheaper. You can probably find the plywood in a dumpster and borrow the tools from a tool library.
That's not my experience. I never get it exactly right that way, and doing and redoing it doesn't make it more economical. That said, I wouldn't choose for the 3d-printer either. The results are still too unpredicable. Sometimes nothing less of excellent, other times - on the same printer - nothing better than rubbish. It helps if you have a really experienced operator, of course.

But parts for this project can be machined with high pecision using a laser cutter.

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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#9 Post by Prime » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:00 pm

MicroBob wrote:It is possible to design a microscope from a 3D-printed body and some metal parts. But using 3D-printing actually makes it very diffcult to come to an acceptable design. And this is where the problem lies: The question you ask show that you don't know much about designing things and nothing about microscopes. This is not the best preparation for someone who wants to design something complicated.

What type of microscope are you trying to build?

In most parts of the world a used simple monocular microscope can be had for less money than a new eyepiece and one objective. Where do you live?

Bob
I think I am going to buy the eyepiece and the objectives from aliexpress, and they are 2 dollars less than the most cheap but great microscope in Aliexpress.
And, how do you know that I don't know much about designing ? The plastic and metal parts of a microscope is very simple to design. The only part that confuses me is lenses.
I don't know about microscope types, I only know optic and electron. I will search.

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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#10 Post by iconoclastica » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:03 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:A microscope is indeed a combination of an objective and an eyepiece.
So, now we can do without those condensers?


Honestly, you can buy a used starter's microscope for less than 100 euro. It may be simple, but probably better and possibly cheaperthan anything you can make yourself. Then you can turn it into something better by changing the optics. That won't cost anything more than buying the same optics for a home-mad mic.

I can see two reasons for making one youself. Economy isn't among them:
1. for the love of making such a thing - then I have said nothing for it is an excellent motivation;
2. if you want such a special device that you can't really buy it - but then you probably already know more about microsopes than we do...

Wim

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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#11 Post by MicroBob » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:26 pm

Prime wrote:And, how do you know that I don't know much about designing ? The plastic and metal parts of a microscope is very simple to design.
This sounds as if you were underestimating the demands of this design project by far. For a usable microscope you need fine tolerances and a high level of ridgidity - both not easy to acheive with 3D-printed parts. For the focus gear and the objective seat it won't give good enough results.
Your project is no bad idea though and I hope you will succeed. When designing something that is readily availabe it often is a good idea to design a special variation for a specific purpose. A field microscope would be an idea.

Did you already look what is available? On Thingiverse "microscope" gives 710 hits.

Bob

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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#12 Post by Hobbyst46 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:13 pm

iconoclastica wrote:Honestly, you can buy a used starter's microscope for less than 100 euro. It may be simple, but probably better and possibly cheaperthan anything you can make yourself. Then you can turn it into something better by changing the optics. That won't cost anything more than buying the same optics for a home-mad mic.
I can see two reasons for making one youself. Economy isn't among them:
1. for the love of making such a thing - then I have said nothing for it is an excellent motivation;
2. if you want such a special device that you can't really buy it - but then you probably already know more about microsopes than we do...
Wim
Agree with every word.
iconoclastica wrote:So, now we can do without those condensers?
I think we can both agree that a compound microscope includes an eyepiece and objectives. A condenser is benefical, important and expands the capability of the instrument, but it is not ABSOLUTELY essential - at least for a beginner. Some basic-levels microscopes without condensers are being sold, for students. And there are novel designs for condenser-less microscopes, emplying LED arrays and rings instead.

So I thought that for someone who would like to construct his (seemingly) first microscope, instead of buying it (the more reasonable solution IMO), it is OK to think that a condenser is not a must.
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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#13 Post by A-PeeR » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:55 am

Here you go instructions to build a simple and cheap compound microscope. When I first got interested in Macro Photography I built one of these and the simple stereo microscope. Great learning experience and a lot of fun for someone who likes DIY:

Compound microscope: http://www.funsci.com/fun3_en/ucomp1/ucomp1.htm
Stereo microscope: http://www.funsci.com/fun3_en/uster3/uster3.htm

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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#14 Post by 75RR » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:09 am

Nice link! They look like a very useful start to understanding how microscopes work.
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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#15 Post by janvangastel » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:26 am

Here's another one, made of lego: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPApJdaYR8w

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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#16 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:16 am

A-PeeR wrote:Here you go instructions to build a simple and cheap compound microscope. When I first got interested in Macro Photography I built one of these and the simple stereo microscope. Great learning experience and a lot of fun for someone who likes DIY:

Compound microscope: http://www.funsci.com/fun3_en/ucomp1/ucomp1.htm
Stereo microscope: http://www.funsci.com/fun3_en/uster3/uster3.htm
Excellent links.
janvangastel wrote:Here's another one, made of lego: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPApJdaYR8w
This is really great! on my to do list! looks a perfect project for kids!
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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#17 Post by jimur » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:12 am

Interesting. I can afford a 3D printer but not a microscope. :?
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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#18 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:09 pm

jimur wrote:Interesting. I can afford a 3D printer but not a microscope. :?
Logical enough, I suppose [assuming that you believe the marketing]
Rephrase it as:
I can only afford either a 3D Printer, or a Microscope; and I want both ...
:idea: I can use the 3D printer to build a Microscope
... but could not use the Microscope to build a 3D Printer.

Q.E.D.

MichaelG. [personally, I have my misgivings, but the logic is reasonable]
Too many 'projects'

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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#19 Post by jimur » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:25 pm

:) I'm sure you're right. I've never been proficient in the process of practical thought.
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Re: Is a eyepiece and an objective enough for a microscope ?

#20 Post by zzffnn » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:00 pm

@Prime,

It depends on the magnification you want to achieve and your subjects (opaque insects or transparent protists?).

For around 100-200x total visual magnification or about 10x-20x on camera sensor, you may get by with a cheap focus drive and no special illumination.

Anything above 200x will require a good fine focus mechanism and anything at or above 400x will demand good illumination to fill the peripheral aperture of the objective (which is usually provided by a condenser to bend light to high angle).

A complete AO (American Optical) Sixty microscope may be bought for around $100 shipped (or may be $30 locally), if you are patient on eBay or at local Surplus sales. That probably won't be much more expensive than 3D printing + buying lenses. It will work quite well for pond protists, though may be too powerful for whole insects.

A refurbished Olympus CH2 won't be that expensive either and is well-regarded as having a very good focus drive system.

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