Product advise

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Tronn
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Product advise

#1 Post by Tronn » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:32 am

Hello from Norway,

Complete newbie her with a great interest for learning more about microscopy.

I am in the phase of buying my first real microscope and have been looking at different models.
The more expensive brands like Zeiss and such are not an option at this stage as i don't know where this interesr will take me.

I have a good offer for a Optika B-293 included with mounting for camera and T2-ring for Canon camera.

The model is this one: http://www.optikamicroscopes.com/optika ... uct/b-293/

Would you say that it is a good choice for a newbie?

I would also like to watch larger things like insects, but i have understood that i should then get another microscope (low power) suited for this.

Any help would be much appreciated.

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75RR
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Re: Product advise

#2 Post by 75RR » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:45 am

Hi Tronn, welcome
Would you say that it is a good choice for a newbie?
It really depends on how much they are asking for it.
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)

Tronn
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Re: Product advise

#3 Post by Tronn » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:04 am

75RR wrote:Hi Tronn, welcome
Would you say that it is a good choice for a newbie?
It really depends on how much they are asking for it.
Thanx 75RR :)
They are asking for approx. 700 US dollar, but this is in Norway and prices are generally alot higher for these produducts.

But the main question is if it's a good microscope to start with for me regardless of the price?
I guess also that some important part anyway can also be upgraded at a later point.

Best for me would be a microscope that can be used for the smallest things and also for insects and such, but i have understood that i need microscopes then.

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75RR
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Re: Product advise

#4 Post by 75RR » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:35 am

There are two ways to proceed with the purchase of a first microscope.

One is to buy an economical Chinese clone as a 'first microscope' for around the €350 euro mark or so, in order to develop the skills you will need and also to find out if it is going to develop into a 'serious' hobby. You would then (say in 6 to 12 months) purchase a better microscope.

The other is to buy a used quality microscope that will allow you to upgrade as far as you want fairly economically. In this case your first microscope is also your final one.

What you want to avoid is paying too much for a chinese clone that is also costly to upgrade.


As for observing larger things such as insects, you would want a stereoscope. It is not really possible to combine viewing both large and very small things in one microscope.

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/art ... oscope.pdf
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)

Culicoides
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Re: Product advise

#5 Post by Culicoides » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:08 pm

Dear Tronn,
There were two things to remember when starting out
The first and most important is that the results you get depends, not on the instrument you use, but on the person behind the microscope (or camera). You can get results as good from a cheap microscope costing 100 euros as from one costing 700 or more.
The second is that by your own admission you are not sure if you will prefer to look for things like small pond life,, or larger things like insects.
My advice would be buy a cheap stereo microscope for around 150 to 200 euros. Forget cameras and expensive add-ons for now, and get used to using this basic microscope. If, in a few months, you feel you want something better, then set a budget at that time. Then pass your cheap stereo on to some lucky young beginner.
You will have spent a bit, and learnt a lot, but experience is never cheap!

Hobbyst46
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Re: Product advise

#6 Post by Hobbyst46 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:09 pm

As far as I learn from the catalogue, there is an Optika model 293 and a model 293Pli. The latter is more expandable than the former, at least with respect to fluorescence and phase contrast. AFAIK they are manufactured in China, not Italy.
The only important upgrade that seems to be available for the model 293, according to the catalogue, is a darkfield condenser for 10X-40X objectives (dry).

Objectives are Plan - seemingly planachromats only.

What caught my attention is the illumination. They boast a 3.6 white light LED of color temperature 6300K. The only white light LEDs of such color temperature, that I have known, emit strongly bluish light. Whether or not that is fine for the microscopist and for his camera is a matter of personal preference. About 3.6W power: in LEDs, the luminosity is not directly calculable from the wattage. yet, to me, 3.6W LED might be on the weaker side, although, since it is installed directly below the condenser, I might be wrong.

I would also suggest to inquire customer service of Optika about the camera interface. I Found no details in the catalogue. Is there a relay lens, photo eyepiece, etc in the trinocular head.

Good luck!
Zeiss Standard GFL+Canon EOS-M10, Olympus VMZ stereo

Tronn
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Re: Product advise

#7 Post by Tronn » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:39 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:As far as I learn from the catalogue, there is an Optika model 293 and a model 293Pli. The latter is more expandable than the former, at least with respect to fluorescence and phase contrast. AFAIK they are manufactured in China, not Italy.
The only important upgrade that seems to be available for the model 293, according to the catalogue, is a darkfield condenser for 10X-40X objectives (dry).

Objectives are Plan - seemingly planachromats only.

What caught my attention is the illumination. They boast a 3.6 white light LED of color temperature 6300K. The only white light LEDs of such color temperature, that I have known, emit strongly bluish light. Whether or not that is fine for the microscopist and for his camera is a matter of personal preference. About 3.6W power: in LEDs, the luminosity is not directly calculable from the wattage. yet, to me, 3.6W LED might be on the weaker side, although, since it is installed directly below the condenser, I might be wrong.

I would also suggest to inquire customer service of Optika about the camera interface. I Found no details in the catalogue. Is there a relay lens, photo eyepiece, etc in the trinocular head.

Good luck!
Thanx Hobbyst46 :)

Can't say anything about the illumination since i have no experience with it.
For the camera interface i have checked with them and they have a interface so i can connect my Canon EOS camera and the offer is included everything i need for it.

Another option i have from the is this Bresser: https://www.bresser.de/en/Microscopes-M ... scope.html

But i guess it's about the same quality and they are both produced in China.

Hobbyst46
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Re: Product advise

#8 Post by Hobbyst46 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:56 pm

Tronn wrote:
Hobbyst46 wrote:As far as I learn from the catalogue, there is an Optika model 293 and a model 293Pli. The latter is more expandable than the former, at least with respect to fluorescence and phase contrast. AFAIK they are manufactured in China, not Italy.
The only important upgrade that seems to be available for the model 293, according to the catalogue, is a darkfield condenser for 10X-40X objectives (dry).

Objectives are Plan - seemingly planachromats only.

What caught my attention is the illumination. They boast a 3.6 white light LED of color temperature 6300K. The only white light LEDs of such color temperature, that I have known, emit strongly bluish light. Whether or not that is fine for the microscopist and for his camera is a matter of personal preference. About 3.6W power: in LEDs, the luminosity is not directly calculable from the wattage. yet, to me, 3.6W LED might be on the weaker side, although, since it is installed directly below the condenser, I might be wrong.

I would also suggest to inquire customer service of Optika about the camera interface. I Found no details in the catalogue. Is there a relay lens, photo eyepiece, etc in the trinocular head.

Good luck!
Thanx Hobbyst46 :)

Can't say anything about the illumination since i have no experience with it.
For the camera interface i have checked with them and they have a interface so i can connect my Canon EOS camera and the offer is included everything i need for it.

Another option i have from the is this Bresser: https://www.bresser.de/en/Microscopes-M ... scope.html

But i guess it's about the same quality and they are both produced in China.
Yes, they are both produced in China. I cannot say anything about the quality. The features of the Bresser are less clear - I really do not understand if it is a LED lamp or a 6V 20W halogen illumination. I would choose halogen if available.

All those microscopes are IMHO highly priced, considering their limitations. The advantage of a NEW Chinese made scope is the 1-3 years warranty.
Culicoides wrote:Forget cameras and expensive add-ons for now, and get used to using this basic microscope. If, in a few months, you feel you want something better, then set a budget at that time. Then pass your cheap stereo on to some lucky young beginner.
An excellent advise. I daresay, a stereo microscope is so handy at home, that one is likely to keep it whether he/she buys a biological microscope or not! even to check if the black dot on one's childs skin is a thorn or insect!
Zeiss Standard GFL+Canon EOS-M10, Olympus VMZ stereo

apochronaut
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Re: Product advise

#9 Post by apochronaut » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:45 pm

Buying a first microscope is difficult because commercial interests have been very good at convincing the public to buy everything new.
Slowly, bit by bit however, the concept of new is better is losing ground, stubbornly, openly persisting in the rather sordid confines of ventures such as Ikea. Wow, now there is a thought; an Ikea microscope....... However, there is a new emergence of repair shops and a generation has arisen that actually notices the dump( dumb?) pile of trash around them. It has been easy for other generations to not notice it , they can just take a trip and spread their trash and jet exhaust elsewhere; or just move elsewhere and leave the trash behind. It's been real easy.
The car industry, all of a sudden realizing that their marketing obsession based on performance and pollution might be seeming a little bit tacky these days, and now has developed some legitimate reasons for you to buy a new car and it is purely based on energy efficiency, so in the case of a car; there is a very good chance that new is better.
With microscopes however? Unless you think that substituting one infrequently used professionally performing halogen bulb for a hobby grade led is going to save the planet, there is no technical innovation in a Chinese budget priced microscope that wasn't already in existence 30 years ago, and that includes the optics. Oh, and possibly the inventive use of petrochemical products. In buying a Chinese microscope for under roughly 1000.00, you are stepping back in time technically, and the build quality is such that had a prototype of one of those stands been proposed as a submission piece in 1980, to any of the major microscope manufacturer's chief engineering staff, it would have been left in the lunchroom, for all and sundry to chuckle over , like a piece of performance art. Design wise? It would have been met with oohs and aahs because, everyone looking at it would know how easily the naive are duped by a flashy design....... and $$$ would chi-ching the atmosphere......Oh well, if only it weren't made from plastic , crudely machined soapy aluminum , and off center objectives.

MicroBob
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Re: Product advise

#10 Post by MicroBob » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:07 pm

Hi,

the microscope doesn't look bad but it also costs a lot of money. In the case you would have to sell it later on you wouldn't get more than 250€ back (german market conditions assumed).
If you have a used market in Norway this would be an idea. You could alos buy from a reputable used dealer that sells well maintained microscopes.
If you have to buy new I would choose something simple for 30% the price and make do with it for a while. When microscopy is for you you can then save for a really nice brand microscope.

The expandability of no name chinese microscopes is questionable, I wouldn't count on it. For the more important mircroscope brands you can find even quite special components on the used market.

Bob

billbillt
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Re: Product advise

#11 Post by billbillt » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:10 pm

Hello Tronn,

Not to worry, Chinese microscopes are great for hobby use... I have one here and like it... You will always get negative posts about them from a cranky old person that knows nothing about them and think they know everything. They will ramble on and on, paragraph after paragraph and never give good advice against them.....

The Best,
BillT

Tronn
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Re: Product advise

#12 Post by Tronn » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:26 pm

apochronaut wrote:Buying a first microscope is difficult....
I have a little problem understanding your post here and the reason behind it.
I don't know what it's like where you are living, but here the market for used things have become really big and thats a good thing compared to the use and throw society that we used to have in "the richest country in the world".

When it comes to microscopes the market here for used top brands that i can find online is almost non existing.
I found one Leitz.

You can always make fun of cheap and bad microscopes from China and the people buying them, but i wonder how many of the top users here that started out with a "cheap chinese piece of crap".
Very few people start this hobby with an very expensive Leitz, Leica or Nikon and it isn't always good used ones availible either.
Don't kill the joy of starting this interest before it really gets going.
There won't be much recruitment then.

This is the "Beginner's corner" so have a little patience with the questions here :)

Or i might have misunderstood your intentions totally....

billbillt
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Re: Product advise

#13 Post by billbillt » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:36 pm

"Or i might have misunderstood your intentions totally...."

No, you got the full intent of that post... This is what happens to most new folks here that just want to start a part time hobby without breaking the bank.. Just purchase what you select and pay no attention to the nay sayers.... After all, it is YOUR money and you will be the one to use it...

Regards,
BillT

Tronn
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Re: Product advise

#14 Post by Tronn » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:03 pm

Thanx billbillt

Tronn
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Re: Product advise

#15 Post by Tronn » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:04 pm

MicroBob wrote:Hi,

the microscope doesn't look bad but it also costs a lot of money. In the case you would have to sell it later on you wouldn't get more than 250€ back (german market conditions assumed).
If you have a used market in Norway this would be an idea. You could alos buy from a reputable used dealer that sells well maintained microscopes.
If you have to buy new I would choose something simple for 30% the price and make do with it for a while. When microscopy is for you you can then save for a really nice brand microscope.

The expandability of no name chinese microscopes is questionable, I wouldn't count on it. For the more important mircroscope brands you can find even quite special components on the used market.

Bob
Thanx Bob

billbillt
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Re: Product advise

#16 Post by billbillt » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:12 pm

Tronn wrote:Thanx billbillt
You are quite welcome... Keep me up to date on your microscope activities.... I take a great interest in people that like to do more with less, such as yourself...

BillT

MicroBob
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Re: Product advise

#17 Post by MicroBob » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:34 pm

There are couple of used microscope dealers in Europe and though the shipping would be expensive I would take their offers in consideration. Immel optics in Germany sells mainly Zeiss gear, you could select what you need and I'm sure they ship to Norway. I haven't bought anythingfrom them, but they have a good reputation. You might just set up a table and compare some alternatives.

Many microscopists have at least one light and simple microscope of moderate value to take to trips and holidays. So a simple beginners model could have a use after it is no longer the main instrument.

By the way: You asked for advice. Apochronauts advice may not be what you would have preferred to hear, but it is good and true advice nontheless, believe me. Of cause other opinions like Bills are valid too since it is a question of demands and view point. In the end you have got a range of opinions and will have to make your decision. If you find that microscopy is for you but that your initial purchase was not so great you will correct it with some loss and won't look back.

With patient hunting you could get something like this as a second instrument: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7263 ;)

Tronn
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Re: Product advise

#18 Post by Tronn » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:39 pm

MicroBob wrote:There are couple of used microscope dealers in Europe and though the shipping would be expensive I would take their offers in consideration. Immel optics in Germany sells mainly Zeiss gear, you could select what you need and I'm sure they ship to Norway. I haven't bought anythingfrom them, but they have a good reputation. You might just set up a table and compare some alternatives.

Many microscopists have at least one light and simple microscope of moderate value to take to trips and holidays. So a simple beginners model could have a use after it is no longer the main instrument.

By the way: You asked for advice. Apochronauts advice may not be what you would have preferred to hear, but it is good and true advice nontheless, believe me. Of cause other opinions like Bills are valid too since it is a question of demands and view point. In the end you have got a range of opinions and will have to make your decision. If you find that microscopy is for you but that your initial purchase was not so great you will correct it with some loss and won't look back.

With patient hunting you could get something like this as a second instrument: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7263 ;)
Very nice pictures taken with the microscope in your link :)

I will check out the german dealer, thanx.
Not sure how customs tax relate to used things.

The only one i found here was this: https://www.finn.no/bap/forsale/ad.html ... =139772182 (norwegian).
Not alot of info though....

PeteM
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Re: Product advise

#19 Post by PeteM » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:41 pm

Exploring the micro-world can be very cool -- hope you enjoy it.

In the US, an equivalent microscope to the one you listed would be around $450 (an AmScope 490 trinoculular model) on Amazon.com. So, I would check on buying options - you might save $250.

Starting with a lower power stereo microscope (say 10x and 20x power) has the advantages of being ideal for many subjects, easier to use, and a product that will have use even after you have something with a higher power. Such a microscope could cost $200 or less. It would be great for insects, flowers, plants, industrial bits, doing detail work, and more.

One thing to remember is that the higher the magnification, the shallower the depth of field. By the time you're up to 400x power your specimens need to be shaved VERY thin, held flat, and you need to start paying attention to things like the thickness of cover slips. So, many people end up just buying a box of cheap prepared slides, looking at them, and (some) losing interest.

If you can provide more information on personal interests there may be some more definitive recommendations. For example, if you like tinkering with things and improving them -- then a quality used "system" microscope could make more sense. If you hike or visit the beach, then maybe your walks would provide ideal specimens for a stereo microscope. If you're an artist, then chemical and mineral crystals under polarized light might be of interest. If you're a teacher, parent, or grandparent -- there may be lessons for kids. And so on.

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Re: Product advise

#20 Post by MicroBob » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:21 pm

That Leitz Biomed looks nice. I don't know much about Leitz microscopes and couldn't tell with which components this Portugal-made instrument is compatible. I would check if it maybe has limited expandability. The Leitz EF objectives are very nice. EF means " extended field", like semi-plan. This has to be seen in relation to "plan" beeing a field of 28mm for Leitz :shock: and can't be compared to what "plan" on a new chinese objective means. The EF objectives are about as good as achromats get so quite good but with a bit of room for improvement. Leitz microscopes of this era were often sold with a trinocular tube which would be nice to have at this price point. I can't see what condenser is mounted on the microscope. The sellers doesn't seem to know much about microscopes so there is an increased risk of defects or urgent need for maintenance.

There should be no tax within the EU. Shipping to Norway might be expensive so a safe buy with little risk of a return would be an advantage.


http://www.thilo-immel-optics.de/komplettmikroskope.htm

Again I have no experience with them but reputedly they are honest dealers:
http://www.usedmicroscopes.co.uk/

If you register as a user there are frequent used microscope offers in the market section of german www.mikroskopie-forum.de.

A good bet for a cheap and cheerful compound microscope are Lomo Biolams and Zeiss Jena LG.

PeteM
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Re: Product advise

#21 Post by PeteM » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:08 pm

I've had several Leitz microscopes of this era -- and the Portugal-made components are fine. Same specs as the German-made counterparts. The EF objectives would likely be a bit better than those of the new scope (I've had both types) and there would be expansion options for phase contrast, darkfield condensers, proper photo eyepieces, and the like.

With respect to that particular Biomed -- I think that for the price (around $550 US) it really should have a trinocular head. It also bothers me that the dealer didn't take the time to wipe off the smear of blood on the base -- not a good sign for attention to detail in my opinion.

This new scope is roughly comparable to the $700 one listed earlier. Don't know if Amazon has affordable shipping options to Norway: https://www.amazon.com/AmScope-T490A-DK ... way&sr=8-2

To the OP -- if you decide you're interested in a used lab scope as well as new -- I can email you a PDF copy of the guide I offer for parents and mentors in our "Micronaut" program. Message me when you have enough posts to do so, if you're interested.
Last edited by PeteM on Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tronn
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Re: Product advise

#22 Post by Tronn » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:10 pm

MicroBob wrote:That Leitz Biomed looks nice. I don't know much about Leitz microscopes and couldn't tell with which components this Portugal-made instrument is compatible. I would check if it maybe has limited expandability. The Leitz EF objectives are very nice. EF means " extended field", like semi-plan. This has to be seen in relation to "plan" beeing a field of 28mm for Leitz :shock: and can't be compared to what "plan" on a new chinese objective means. The EF objectives are about as good as achromats get so quite good but with a bit of room for improvement. Leitz microscopes of this era were often sold with a trinocular tube which would be nice to have at this price point. I can't see what condenser is mounted on the microscope. The sellers doesn't seem to know much about microscopes so there is an increased risk of defects or urgent need for maintenance.

There should be no tax within the EU. Shipping to Norway might be expensive so a safe buy with little risk of a return would be an advantage.


http://www.thilo-immel-optics.de/komplettmikroskope.htm

Again I have no experience with them but reputedly they are honest dealers:
http://www.usedmicroscopes.co.uk/

If you register as a user there are frequent used microscope offers in the market section of german http://www.mikroskopie-forum.de.

A good bet for a cheap and cheerful compound microscope are Lomo Biolams and Zeiss Jena LG.
Thanx alot MicroBob.
Norway is not a part of the EU, but we have a free trade agreement with them so the same rules hopefully applies.

apochronaut
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Re: Product advise

#23 Post by apochronaut » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:49 pm

Tronn wrote:
apochronaut wrote:Buying a first microscope is difficult....
I have a little problem understanding your post here and the reason behind it.
I don't know what it's like where you are living, but here the market for used things have become really big and thats a good thing compared to the use and throw society that we used to have in "the richest country in the world".

When it comes to microscopes the market here for used top brands that i can find online is almost non existing.
I found one Leitz.

You can always make fun of cheap and bad microscopes from China and the people buying them, but i wonder how many of the top users here that started out with a "cheap chinese piece of crap".
Very few people start this hobby with an very expensive Leitz, Leica or Nikon and it isn't always good used ones availible either.
Don't kill the joy of starting this interest before it really gets going.
There won't be much recruitment then.

This is the "Beginner's corner" so have a little patience with the questions here :)

Or i might have misunderstood your intentions totally....

You did. Many people will be reading this thread, looking for advice, not just you and threads such as this are a dime a dozen on this forum. It is the same old refrain, with those that know better, shaking a finger and saying be careful with Chinese bargains. You are simply buying a glitzy package of mediocre technology and paying more for that technology than you would for a quality used instrument made with pride and skill, not in a sweatshop full of desperate people. There are lots of quality used microscopes out there. If you are a career hobbyist with a kid or two to bring along, then one of those internet wonders will probably do but if you aim to have a microscope that you can build on and develop with, then you should start ; right from the start. You will only be replacing it in future if not.

billbillt
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Re: Product advise

#24 Post by billbillt » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:10 pm

I stand by what I said.. No person has the right to criticize and look down on your choice of microscopes. no matter where they are made.. Such a person has never learned anything except how to be a whinny old man...

Scarodactyl
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Re: Product advise

#25 Post by Scarodactyl » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:10 am

If the the concern here is helping people ease into the micro world I'd worry the overt hostility might be more of a hurdle than the equipment. I know having strong opinions about microscopes is sort of what it's all about but dang.

700$ is quite a bit, in the sense that in the US you could get started with a nice used scope for a lot less. Even with shipping and VAT you could probably get a used name brand scope from the US with similar capabilities and save, though you don't get the support that way, and if something is wrong with it a return is difficult. If support is important, by the way, I have heard poor reviews of Amscope's support, though perhaps they have improved as these were from years ago. I don't know anything about Optika's performance on that front.

apochronaut
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Re: Product advise

#26 Post by apochronaut » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:55 am

I'm not being hostile. I'm just calling a spade a spade. This forum beats around the bush constantly, regarding recommendations around the topic of recommendations regarding a first microscope. On the one hand you have a bunch of people who are only o.k. in their knowledge of microscopy but are more than willing to pipe up and strut that their first Chinese entry level microscope was great and that any one who thinks that the option to refine ones choices to a better class of equipment with true longevity is acting in self interest. I am far beyond that . There is a bigger world out there for those with an inquiring mind and those that see that microscopy is valuable and potentially important to a younger generation and that they should aspire to the best equipment possible within their budget, otherwise they are doing themselves and those that they seek to tutor a disservice.

MicroBob
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Re: Product advise

#27 Post by MicroBob » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:29 am

Hi together,
from what I read Tronn asked for advice on a planned microscope buy and described himself as a complete newbie. What better can he get than several opinions from microscopists with different demands, expectations and levels of experience? Some of these opinions have even been backed up by detailed reasoning. From my point of view there is no need to start an argument about this.

When you look at different, equally happy microscopists you will find that they use quite different equipment. At the same time it is evident that the more experienced and demanding microscopists tend to use quality microscopes of the big brands - mostly used and old because of the high new prices.

I wouldn't ask someone about his newly bought instrument: "Well, does it it in your waste bin?". But before the purchase the best advice is a combination of recommendations and warnings.

Bob

Hobbyst46
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Re: Product advise

#28 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:43 am

Scarodactyl wrote:...700$ is quite a bit, in the sense that in the US you could get started with a nice used scope for a lot less. Even with shipping and VAT you could probably get a used name brand scope from the US with similar capabilities and save, though you don't get the support that way, and if something is wrong with it a return is difficult.
Here might be an example, in my opinion, although regretfully, I never had the chance to use a non-stereo AO scope. Or an Exa film camera (if I recognize it correctly... :roll: )
https://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Optic ... 3172406814
Some sellers agree to ship outside North America even if the eBay list states otherwise. Guaranteed.
Zeiss Standard GFL+Canon EOS-M10, Olympus VMZ stereo

Tronn
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Re: Product advise

#29 Post by Tronn » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:40 am

Thanx everyone.

Not my intention to stir up anything :)

And for apochronaut i guess no one have a problem with the advice "get a used Zeiss or something instead of the chinese one because it is more..... fill in".
That's probably a good advice, but people completely new to this don't know it in advance and hence this newbie section of the forum.
I guess the easiest way for some experienced users here is to avoid this section instead of scaring people away.
There are always people wanting to sincerely help.

Apart from that i am still not sure what to do :D
I would like a product with product garantie and possible support, but at the same time i would like to get the best possible product within my budget.
As everything else decisions like this is also easier with experience, but every advice helps.

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mrsonchus
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Re: Product advise

#30 Post by mrsonchus » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:55 am

Oh my, another round of this well-worn circuit...... ;)

I started with my first microscope some 3-4 years ago now and speak, as do others, from experience. I bought a 'Chinese clone' first, from a very good supplier here in the U.K. This 'scope (a Brunel-Microscopes branded 'SP200') was very good indeed, with super-bright and clear images across the whole range of magnifications, as I saw it.
Whether my perception of the SP200's capabilities was technically true or not, my actual experience of the 'scope in use was a very enjoyable one indeed. This to me always takes priority with anything I choose to buy - my enjoyment of it.

That said, as I progressed, all the time closely supported and encouraged by the excellent and kind folk of this fine forum, including two friends, yes the every-sparring apochronaut vs billbillt, I came to the conclusion that I'd like a 'next 'scope'.
The main reason was that, armed with some accumulated knowledge, I realised that the SP200 lacked the facility to be easily and affordably configured for additional types of microscopy, including darkfield, phase-contrast, polarisation etct....
You may well not know what these are at this time, but if you stay with microscopy for even a few months you will start to learn.

My next move was then to buy a superb 'old master' 'scope (Leitz) that gave me these options as it has extensive adaptability and modularity by-design and in fact. I also cost 35% less than the SP200.
However, there is no way I could or would have been able to buy the Leitz without first buying the excellent SP200 from new, with the usual guarantees, support and yes, 'newness' to give me confidence.
In terms of quality the SP200 was a superb 'scope - very close indeed to the Leitz in image quality (steady Apo' - steady now... :D ) and indeed build quality :o . (down Apo' down.... ;) ).

So in a nutshell my experience has been that the 'Chinese clones' are potentially very good indeed and are ready-to-use (and ENJOY), definitely my pick for a first 'scope for a new user with almost no knowledge to begin with. Yes, you'll lose 70% in re-sell value, as did I, but you'll be able to begin to enjoy this hobby and to interact in this great forum immediately and have no technical worries about parts you may need still to buy etc as for a used 'scope.

With a used 'scope (whether it's 'superior' or not doesn't matter at this stage) you'll very likely get off to a more problematic, stressful and perhaps less enjoyable start than with a new 'scope, in my opinion and experience.

As far as bill' vs apo' - I'd say it's a dead-on draw, especially as I, as do others here, know fully well that both of these fellows have excellent and valid opinions and neither is in any way unfriendly.

Good luck with your choice! :)
John B

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