Help needed in deciding on first time microscope

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Hawk_za · #1 Post by **Hawk_za** » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:44 am

Hi all im BRAND new here and this is my first post

i found this website through Microbehunter you tube channel and he has given me a hell of allot of great knowledge, so just wanted to say a big thanks to him for his work and videos as without his videos, i probably would not be here.

Ever since I've been young wanted to get a microscope and finally have the funds to get an entry level microscope and was looking at the Microscope - OMAX 40X-2000X Lab LED from amazon as it dose have din standard and allot of good features.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0094 ... 5J5C&psc=1

HOWEVER when investigating all the techniques, i noticed you guys/galls use Darkfield and Oblique illumination and i am concerned that THIS microscope with its low power led will not have sufficient illumination to do these techniques.

Can anyone advise if this is the case or can i just get this microscope and get a 32mm Microscope Darkfield and Oblique Illumination Set and play with darkfield.

alternatively the closest microscope i can get is the AmScope T490B-DK Compound Trinocular Microscope, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004T ... 5J5C&psc=1
and that is over 2x the price but does have allot of other good features.

i know there are phased optic microscopes but i just justify that kind of purchase as a beginner even tough i would LOVE to own one :>

i thank you in advance for any help given

BramHuntingNematodes · #2 Post by **BramHuntingNematodes** » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:59 pm

The light should be sufficient for df with patch stops for the low power objectives. Getting good df on a 40x is more involved, usually requiring a special condenser. Omax has two I have seen, the dry version which will only work with the 40x, and the oil which will work with both the 40x and 100x. Although the oil condenser costs about as much as the entire scope pictured here, I think it would be much preferable to the dry version in terms of lighting quality. With a special condenser, the LED light included likely will be sufficient also.

BramHuntingNematodes · #3 Post by **BramHuntingNematodes** » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:00 pm

The light should be sufficient for df with patch stops for the low power objectives. Getting good df on a 40x is more involved, usually requiring a special condenser. Omax has two I have seen, the dry version which will only work with the 40x, and the oil which will work with both the 40x and 100x. Although the oil condenser costs about as much as the entire scope pictured here, I think it would be much preferable to the dry version in terms of lighting quality. With a special condenser, the LED light included likely will be sufficient also.

apochronaut · #4 Post by **apochronaut** » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:45 pm

I am curious why you think that D.I.N. standard is something that makes a microscope of good quality?

I am also curious why DF and oblique are lumped together. In your thinking?

The third question is whether you think that the OMAX scope actually produces 2000X of useful magnification?

PeteM · #5 Post by **PeteM** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:11 am

Welcome "Hawk."

Given a budget of $200 that's probably an OK place to start. The scope has limitations for an advanced hobbyist; but sort of like having a $25 bicycle and wanting a $4000 one -- anything that works reasonably well beats not having one at all.

Might help if you can give an idea of what you want to view. $130 will buy a better stereo microscope in the scheme of things than $200 spent on a compound microscope. If you then go on with some confidence to buy a better compound microscope, the stereo scope will still be useful. Depending on your interests, there's lots that looks pretty amazing at 10x and 30 or 40x. Specimen "prep" is also a whole lot easier. Many people end up buying a compound microscope, going through a box of prepared slides saying "wow," then never make it over the hump to preparing their own slides. Do you have any complementary interests (photography, gardening, hiking, machine work, kids also interested, etc.)?

Location also matters - in some areas you might might stumble across a better microscope, locally and used, for the same money. Many home schooling parents, for example, buy a semi-decent microscope and end up selling it a few years later. Labs may surplus old but still high quality instruments. A neighbor may have one hiding in a closet. That Omax, used, might bring $50. It's not a toy, but it is built, mechanically and optically, to sell at a low price.

Hawk_za · #6 Post by **Hawk_za** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:06 am

apochronaut wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:45 pm
Re: Help needed in deciding on first time microscopeQuote apochronaut
by apochronaut » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:45 am

I am curious why you think that D.I.N. standard is something that makes a microscope of good quality?

I am also curious why DF and oblique are lumped together. In your thinking?

The third question is whether you think that the OMAX scope actually produces 2000X of useful magnification?

Hi apochronaut rest assured that I'm under NO illusion that 2000 is not useful as a magnification option and understand that 1000x is the practical limit of light and only IF you use oil to adjust for refraction, in addition i consider DF and oblique slimier because the both use patches over the light source to refract light onto the specimen increasing contrast i know there are differences between df and oblique with regard to how the light reacts with the specimen and how shadows are generated.
With that said i also understand that a Proper DF microscope has a light source from the top but i cant justify that kind of expense for a intro into a hobby ..i would rather then spend the money on din compatible plan objectives and a good eye piece camera so i can video and photograph my discoveries.

Hawk_za · #7 Post by **Hawk_za** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:26 am

PeteM wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:11 am
Welcome "Hawk."

Given a budget of $200 that's probably an OK place to start. The scope has limitations for an advanced hobbyist; but sort of like having a $25 bicycle and wanting a $4000 one -- anything that works reasonably well beats not having one at all.

Might help if you can give an idea of what you want to view. $130 will buy a better stereo microscope in the scheme of things than $200 spent on a compound microscope. If you then go on with some confidence to buy a better compound microscope, the stereo scope will still be useful. Depending on your interests, there's lots that looks pretty amazing at 10x and 30 or 40x. Specimen "prep" is also a whole lot easier. Many people end up buying a compound microscope, going through a box of prepared slides saying "wow," then never make it over the hump to preparing their own slides. Do you have any complementary interests (photography, gardening, hiking, machine work, kids also interested, etc.)?

Location also matters - in some areas you might might stumble across a better microscope, locally and used, for the same money. Many home schooling parents, for example, buy a semi-decent microscope and end up selling it a few years later. Labs may surplus old but still high quality instruments. A neighbor may have one hiding in a closet. That Omax, used, might bring $50. It's not a toy, but it is built, mechanically and optically, to sell at a low price.

Hi there PeteM thanks for the welcome i currently live in Cape Town South Africa i enjoy hiking and swimming (scuba) and also just wish to start seeing what i can see at higher magnifications from things in water all the way to plant structures to yes eventually bacteria ......although i don't hold much hope in seeing much there as they are so small very little if no detail can be gleamed in addition I'm hoping to eventually get a few patches from ebay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/32mm-Microsc ... 3087395644) and start playing with DF and Oblique techniques and shadows and hopefully after that maybe get some nice PLAN objectives and a 5MP camera and start making photos and videos.

apochronaut · #8 Post by **apochronaut** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:18 pm

You are kind of stuck, being from Seth Africa. It's probably not a hotbed of microscope offerings. In order to use your proposed set of DF and oblique patches effectively, you must have a condenser that has XY adjustment as well as a filter slot. The DF patches, kind of duplicate the function of a dry DF condenser, so buying into a set complete with the dry condenser negates the value of the DF patches and you don't have the oblique/Rheinberg discs as well.

In order to economize, you need something similar to the 200.00 scope but with an XY adjustable condenser. Perhaps Amazon has something just a little up the ladder, pricewise?

75RR · #9 Post by **75RR** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:41 pm

Have you looked in gumtree?

https://www.gumtree.co.za/s-all-the-ads ... microscope

Make a nice starter microscope at a very reasonable price.
.

Hawk_za · #10 Post by **Hawk_za** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:47 pm

Hi 75RR i did contemplate it, however have gone for the 5 year warranty that came with a new product ....the infinity lenses did tempt me though.

I eventually when't with the OMAX M82ES-SC100-LP100 as while it is an older din standard microscope it does have allot of upgrade paths, and have even gotten the OMAX Kohler Illumination Device for Microscope A195K-CA for it after checking with two separate agents that it was compatible.

i thank everyone for your help and hope this microscope will allow me to explore my new found hobby.

one last question i also bought the AmScope Microscope Stains Vital Stain Kit for Living Cells - 6 Different Microscope Slide Stains but cant find much on information on stains protocols i found a few bits on grams stain and fast acid stain

but there are stains in here i have no clue on ....i did download the msds ...buuuut haven't found those very useful any directions or books you guys and gals can suggest i would really appreciate.

p.s you guys and girls ROCK ...man i cant wait for my scope to arrive, hell might even do a video on it as i see there are not that many reviews of it.

BramHuntingNematodes · #11 Post by **BramHuntingNematodes** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:45 pm

If you would like a nearly exhaustive treatment I recommend:
https://archive.org/details/microtomistsform00gray

Vital stains are a compromise between being good at staining and not killing/ needing fixed tissue. They are simple enough to use. You just add a drop to your wet mount.

Hawk_za · #12 Post by **Hawk_za** » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:07 am

Hi BramHuntingNematodes thank you for the book 800 pages of learning i will read and try catch-up as the more i learn here the more this subject matter keeps running away from me ...BUT time and patience

BramHuntingNematodes · #13 Post by **BramHuntingNematodes** » Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:11 pm

Much of the book is an index or reference to specific stains or preparations used by slidemakers past. The first section has useful general advice. You might also try Gray's other book, the handbook of basic microtechnique, for an excellent overview of microscopy and slide preparation.

Hawk_za · #14 Post by **Hawk_za** » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:28 pm

hi thanks for the heads up on the book well my stains arrived today so i took a few photos https://imgur.com/a/vvM1cHSand they also came with a booklet quite useful tomorrow or after tomorrow my microscope shall arrive i will try post a few words on it then

just wanted to say thanks again for the help everyone has provided i haven't been this excited about something in a long time.