Advice for upright microscope? (Budget 300-800 CHF/USD)

[manu3d]

Greetings everybody,

in the context of looking at microorganisms in ponds and soil, I have been looking at the selection of microscopes available through this supplier:

https://www.astroshop.eu/microscopy/mic ... =binocular

I am a bit overwhelmed by the choice. And reading reviews leads to names such as Omax and AmScope which are not present in the list.

Can anybody help me trim the list and focus on a few models to choose from?

I'm relatively flexible with the budget in the sense that I can spend within the full 300-800 CHF/USD range if it makes sense for my level of (in)experience with microbial subjects. I appreciate sharp, detailed views, so I guess optical quality is important to me. Also, I'd very much like a microscope that can eventually be upgraded, i.e. to dark field/phase contrast vision, plan/apo objectives, better eyepieces and trino head (anything else?)

I am also happy to receive advice on different suppliers here in Switzerland or in continental Europe. And I'd prefer new but I'd consider used.

I look forward to your replies.

Kind regards,

Manu

[75RR]

Here are some links that might help you decide what might suit you:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19GrLTD ... 9XXbC/view

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/art ... oscope.pdf

http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/index.h ... /intro.htm

[manu3d]

Thank you 75RR for the informative material. I went through it and I found a lot of useful information.

I think I narrowed it down to a microscope like this one: https://www.bresser.de/en/Microscopes-M ... Trino.html

The stereoscopic microscope I already own is a Bresser and I'm quite happy with it, so another Bresser I guess would be probably fine. There are a number of other potential choices though in the same price/features category, i.e. Optika, Euromex, Kern, Novex, Motic, Windhaus, Hund. Any knowledge, or good/bad experiences with any of these brands?

What I still don't know is how upgreadable these things are. I.e. I have seen Darkfield condensers for many of them, including the Bresser, but I am not sure if, say, a Bresser darkfield condenser is compatible with all of the Bresser microscopes in this category or only with those on the upper end of the price range. In the model linked above I also do not quite see a slot to insert a filter for a cheap darkfield filter or for a Rheinberg filter. And if I want to eventually upgrade the lenses to better quality ones, can they always be replaced (unscrewed) or are they sometimes glued and impossible to replace?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Kind regards, Manu

[75RR]

What I still don't know is how upgreadable these things are. I.e. I have seen Darkfield condensers for many of them, including the Bresser, but I am not sure if, say, a Bresser darkfield condenser is compatible with all of the Bresser microscopes in this category or only with those on the upper end of the price range. In the model linked above I also do not quite see a slot to insert a filter for a cheap darkfield filter or for a Rheinberg filter. And if I want to eventually upgrade the lenses to better quality ones, can they always be replaced (unscrewed) or are they sometimes glued and impossible to replace?

My suggestion when considering buying a badged microscope is to contact the dealer directly - that way you get everything in writing.

Tell them what you want now and what you would like to upgrade to in the future. Make sure you get a good idea of all the costs involved before jumping in.

[manu3d]

Thank you again 75RR.

My worry asking the manufacturer is that they will simply advise me to buy a more expensive model even though perhaps the less expensive range might do. I would prefer the kind of indipendent verification users of this forum might provide.

But I will do as you say.

Again, thank you.

[Roldorf]

Darkfield condenser.

Bresser's Obejctives are like any other manufacturers and can simply be unscrewed. However if you want to have plan infinity objectives you will have to go for the next one up in the range.

https://www.bresser.de/Mikroskopie/BRES ... y-TFM.html

[Roldorf]

I visited Kern to look at their microscopes back in 2018.
They are not retailers or manufacturers like many others and have no facility's for potential customers. However they were very helpful and did get one of the sales personnel to show us some of the scopes they had available and allow us to try a few of the models out. We were interested in a plan infinity scope and to tell you the truth we were not impressed by the model they had on offer.
They only sell mail order so even had we been impressed we could not have purchased one to take away which we had wanted to do (I don't trust the mail for delicate items such as microscopes).

Eventually we went to a Bresser open day. (2nd Tuesday of every month which is probably not happening at the moment). All of their scopes were on display in a lab along with a very knowledgeable lady. We bought the Bresser Science Infinity, a USB camera, slides and coverslips and other accessories (Got a discount and a ten year warranty) and took it home with us.
Been very happy with it.

[manu3d]

Thank you for the advice Roldorf.

You write: if you want to have plan infinity objectives you will have to go for the next one up in the range.

By my understanding the next up would be a Science Infinity: https://www.bresser.de/en/Microscopes-M ... scope.html

With the 116€ darkfield condenser it would push me at around 1090€ or 1150 CHF, which is almost 50% over the (admittedly fuzzy) budget upper limit. As I see this as a once in 10-20 years purchase I could afford it, but I am hesitant.

At the Bresser open day you mentioned, did you manage to see a significant difference between the optical quality of the Science Infinity and that of the Science TFM? How would you describe such difference?

[jfiresto]

... They only sell mail order so even had we been impressed we could not have purchased one to take away which we had wanted to do (I don't trust the mail for delicate items such as microscopes)....

So far, DHL and the Post have handled stereo microscopes perhaps better than I deserved: it is getting people to pack them sufficiently that has been the problem. If I could borrow a time machine, I would go back and bump off the inventor of the shipping pallet. Its popularity has caused me considerable grief by making people think that everything travels as part of a well controlled, palletized load.

[Roldorf]

Hi If you buy a scope with semiplan objectives you can not swap out the objectives for infinity objectives. the design of the light path in the scope is different.
Optically the field of view that is in focus is wider on infinity objectives than on acromats but that is about it.
The price difference on the two models is in the objectives. As an example the 60x plan achro is priced at 190 euro and the 60x plan infinity costs 243. However I am not quite sure on the price of the objectives in the TFM 301 they are quoted as semiplan and not plan so there might be a bigger price difference in the objectives. This would make the Science infinity a much better 'buy'.

We wanted to view and measure mushroom spores so the image quality was part of the decision process and for us it was a once in a lifetime purchase so we decided to spend the extra.

Edit: There is a filter holder on the bottom of the condenser, which as supplied has a blue filter installed (it is a push in holder and not a swing out holder).

[manu3d]

Thank you again Roldorf for the reply.

Meanwhile I sent a message to Bresser asking some questions and they have already replied - see below. Not quite as precisely as I would have hoped, perhaps there is a language issue, but informative nevertheless.

Crucially, it appears from Answer 1 that Bresser microscopes are not compatible with oblique or Rheinberg illumination? If I understand correctly filters can only be placed on top of the illuminator, while Rheinberg or oblique illumination require a filter slot in the condenser? Roldorf, have you tried?

----
Q1: do these models have a slot where to insert a filter, for example for oblique or Rheinberg illumination? And do you sell such filters? I did not see them in your accessories page.
A1: Both microscopes are only compatible to color filters. They will directly put on the illuminator. But we don't sell color filters

Q2: How difficult is it to swap condensers, i.e. from the brightfield one that comes by default with the microscope and a separately purchased darkfield condenser?
A2: For both microscopes we sell a dry darkfield condenser (item: 5942198). The two adjustment screws also hold the condenser. The change and adjustment is very simple.

Q3: How upgradable are these two models? I.e. if one day I want to replace one of the lenses with a lens from, say, Zeiss, is that going to be possible with both models?
A3: The TFM-301 has objectives with 160 mm tube lenght and RMS thread. Parfocal length: 45 mm.
We don't have semi plan objectives. But our plan achromatic objectives are compatible. We have 20x and 60x objectives as a single item.
The Infinity has infinity objectives and RMS thread. Parfocal length: 45 mm.
We also have 20x and 60x objectives as a single item.

Q4: I don't think I am ever going to need different contrast techniques such as Phase Contrast or DIC, but if years from now I decide otherwise, will it be possible with either models?
A4: For the TFM-301 we only have the darkfield condenser as an accessory.
For the Infinity we also sell ha phase contrast set (item: 5942780) Other contrast methods we don't have.

[75RR]

Thank you again Roldorf for the reply.

Meanwhile I sent a message to Bresser asking some questions and they have already replied - see below. Not quite as precisely as I would have hoped, perhaps there is a language issue, but informative nevertheless.

Crucially, it appears from Answer 1 that Bresser microscopes are not compatible with oblique or Rheinberg illumination? If I understand correctly filters can only be placed on top of the illuminator, while Rheinberg or oblique illumination require a filter slot in the condenser? Roldorf, have you tried?

----
Q1: do these models have a slot where to insert a filter, for example for oblique or Rheinberg illumination? And do you sell such filters? I did not see them in your accessories page.
A1: Both microscopes are only compatible to color filters. They will directly put on the illuminator. But we don't sell color filters

Q2: How difficult is it to swap condensers, i.e. from the brightfield one that comes by default with the microscope and a separately purchased darkfield condenser?
A2: For both microscopes we sell a dry darkfield condenser (item: 5942198). The two adjustment screws also hold the condenser. The change and adjustment is very simple.

Q3: How upgradable are these two models? I.e. if one day I want to replace one of the lenses with a lens from, say, Zeiss, is that going to be possible with both models?
A3: The TFM-301 has objectives with 160 mm tube lenght and RMS thread. Parfocal length: 45 mm.
We don't have semi plan objectives. But our plan achromatic objectives are compatible. We have 20x and 60x objectives as a single item.
The Infinity has infinity objectives and RMS thread. Parfocal length: 45 mm.
We also have 20x and 60x objectives as a single item.

Q4: I don't think I am ever going to need different contrast techniques such as Phase Contrast or DIC, but if years from now I decide otherwise, will it be possible with either models?
A4: For the TFM-301 we only have the darkfield condenser as an accessory.
For the Infinity we also sell ha phase contrast set (item: 5942780) Other contrast methods we don't have.

Have you seen david_b's post: viewtopic.php?f=24&p=85264#p85264

Modular system, all the upgrades you might one day wish to have and serviced by a professional. Something to think on.

[Roldorf]

See here for darkfield (3) and oblique (2). Rheinberg also works. The filter holder sits under the condenser and is a push fit. The scope comes with a blue filter in the holder. The filters I made myself. Click on the image to go to the postimage website then click again to get the image in full resolution. I also made a swing out filter holder.

[Roldorf]

[Roldorf]

All the previous images taken with a Canon EOS 4000d on a Bresser Science Infinity microscope

[manu3d]

I ended up ordering the Science Infinity and a few accessories (darkfield condenser, slides/covers). Thank you Roldorf and 75RR for the advice.

I will report here or in a separate thread about my experience with it.

Kind regards, Manu

[Roldorf]

I am really interested in your views and pics using the Bresser dark-field condenser, it has been on my wish list for some time now. Looking forward to some pics.