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Re: Please Teach Me Sharpening

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:55 am
by rnabholz
gekko wrote:
rnabholz wrote:Sorry guys, didn't mean to vex you, but I think that is another contributing factor to my troubles.

These darn diatoms do in fact push my equipment's capabilities. I am not used to the idea that my camera just might not be able to deliver what I am expecting from it and that is a reasonable outcome.

Toss in the slight spreading of point sources that comes with darkfield, and a fellow starts to doubt himself.

That is not to say I have everything mastered, and that it is all the equipment's fault, not by a long shot. And that is why I am interested in everybody's approach.

Thanks for the efforts so far and the great discussion.

Hope others will still chime in.

Rod
As far as I know, if your camera-microscope optical "connection" is proper, and the sensor image is parfocal with the eyepiece image, the camera should be able to give you almost as good a result as you see through the eyepieces. You have an excellent sensor with much more than enough resolution. So if the image is significantly worse than the view through the eyepiece, maybe you should look into that (starting with brightfield in order to remove one factor; also DF is harder to judge, and harder to expose properly because I think the contrast can be very large.)
Having said all that, other than this image and one of a circular diatom, I thought your images are superb and for darfield images, I think they are more than superb. So I wouldn't let one or two pesky diatoms aggravate me. Maybe try brightfield on those. Sorry. I'm rambling...
Thanks you gekko.

It is not so much that the view is any different in the photos vs the eyepiece, but more of what Kurt said about knowing there is more there to see and not being able to bring it in.

Thanks for your interest and great contributions to the discussion.

Rod

Re: Please Teach Me Sharpening

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:05 am
by billbillt
gekko wrote:BillT, thank you for your attempt, but as you know, downsizing an image throws away information, but enlarging it does not add back the information that was lost in downsizing it. So, in effect, we get the equivalent of empty magnification. At least that is what I think.
Hi Gekko,
Yes, you are absolutely correct.. I only posted it for possibly eye appeal..

BillT

Re: Please Teach Me Sharpening

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:10 am
by gekko
billbillt wrote:
gekko wrote:BillT, thank you for your attempt, but as you know, downsizing an image throws away information, but enlarging it does not add back the information that was lost in downsizing it. So, in effect, we get the equivalent of empty magnification. At least that is what I think.
Hi Gekko,
Yes, you are absolutely correct.. I only posted it for possibly eye appeal..

BillT
I apologize, BillT. Initially I had missed your reason you posted it, but afterward I think I got it. Thanks for posting the enlarged image.

Re: Please Teach Me Sharpening

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:35 pm
by vasselle
Bonjour.
Voici votre photo avec une accentuation faite avec Lightroom 5.
SharpeningTrialFull_filtered (Copier).jpg
SharpeningTrialFull_filtered (Copier).jpg (289.62 KiB) Viewed 10643 times
Par contre avec accentuation il ne faut surtout pas trop le pousser car sinon on rajoute du bruit à image,il faut mieux des le début faire une mise au point bien nette est rajouter un peu accentuation au poste traitement mes léger
Cordialement seb.

Re: Please Teach Me Sharpening

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:39 pm
by vasselle
Et pour image il ne faut pas trop agrandir sinon on à un grossissement à vide qui ne donne pas plus de détails à image.
Ces pour ça que je les redimensionner en 768x1024.
Cordialement seb

Re: Please Teach Me Sharpening

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:04 pm
by KurtM
^^^ And there we have it from the master of startling clarity and razor sharp imagery.

Light Zone is, I believe, the open source equivalent to Light Room 5, which today is the photo editing software used pretty much ubiquitously by professional and advanced amateur photographers the world over.

But I still don't understand precisely how Seb produced what I consider to be the best version yet, Google translate is making a hash out of his French today.

Re: Please Teach Me Sharpening

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:32 pm
by billbillt
Hi Kurt,

"And to picture it should not be too much larger if not one magnification to a vacuum that does not give more details on image.
This why I resize them 768x1024."
Sincerely seb

I think all hr is saying is resizes his photos to 768x X 1024..

BillT

Re: Please Teach Me Sharpening

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:15 pm
by rnabholz
Thank you Seb.

Your version is indeed excellent. I have come to realize that a significant part of my frustration is being over aggressive with sizing. You reinforce that point nicely. Thank you for taking the time to edit and post.

Rod

Re: Please Teach Me Sharpening

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:43 pm
by mrsonchus
I don't know if it helps but I've read that every time an edit-and-save is made to a jpeg image quality lessens - I don't really know what this means, I'm just starting to try to improve my images as this excellent thread has inspired me to have a mess with some of them...
:)

Re: Please Teach Me Sharpening

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:55 pm
by rnabholz
mrsonchus wrote:I don't know if it helps but I've read that every time an edit-and-save is made to a jpeg image :) quality lessens - I don't really know what this means, I'm just starting to try to improve my images as this excellent thread has inspired me to have a mess with some of them...
:)
Hi John.

JPEG is what is known as a "lossy" compression format. It basically trades some quality to reduce file size. So when you save that Raw file to jpeg, it turns out much smaller, because the software takes a look at the file and decides that it can do without some of the pixels and tosses them overboard.

If you open a JPEG and edit it and save it again as a JPEG, you subject a file that has already passed through the JPEG machine to a second round of the same thing, some data goes overboard again, and the file size shrinks again. Keep doing that and you will have a mess when you are done.

Rod

Re: Please Teach Me Sharpening

Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:36 pm
by mrsonchus
rnabholz wrote:
mrsonchus wrote:I don't know if it helps but I've read that every time an edit-and-save is made to a jpeg image :) quality lessens - I don't really know what this means, I'm just starting to try to improve my images as this excellent thread has inspired me to have a mess with some of them...
:)
Hi John.

JPEG is what is known as a "lossy" compression format. It basically trades some quality to reduce file size. So when you save that Raw file to jpeg, it turns out much smaller, because the software takes a look at the file and decides that it can do without some of the pixels and tosses them overboard.

If you open a JPEG and edit it and save it again as a JPEG, you subject a file that has already passed through the JPEG machine to a second round of the same thing, some data goes overboard again, and the file size shrinks again. Keep doing that and you will have a mess when you are done.

Rod
Makes sense to me Rod - this is definitely going to be a consideration in the future I think, for me anyway. Thanks for the tip Rod. :)

Re: Please Teach Me Sharpening

Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:16 am
by rnabholz
So I thought I would take a run at it again applying some of the tips that you all have been so kind to pass on.

Here is my result. I do think it is better, but realize more than ever that this is tough image.

Thanks Everyone!
SharpeningTrialAttempt.JPG
SharpeningTrialAttempt.JPG (108.44 KiB) Viewed 10604 times