Zerene Synthetic Stereo

Here you can discuss topics such as focus stacking, stitching and other techniques that relate to the processing of micrographs.
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rnabholz
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Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#1 Post by rnabholz » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:47 pm

I recently came across some remarkable images done with Zerene Stacker's synthetic stereo routines, I was convinced to give it try.

I went back in my archives for a large stack made of Magenesium Sulfide (Epsom Salts) that I shot through a van Egmond mask. The stack was 53 images.

After a quick review of the Zerene help page for Stereo pairs, I turned it loose. Pretty happy with my first attempt, and thinking more will be coming.
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#2 Post by Crater Eddie » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:26 pm

That worked very well. We seem to be looking down at a steep cliff from above.
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#3 Post by rnabholz » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:23 pm

Thanks CE.

Funny how we interpret the same scene. I see a view across a plain to the entrance of a V-shaped canyon.

The great thing is it can be whatever the viewer chooses for it to be.

Thanks

Rod

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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#4 Post by hkv » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:30 pm

Very cool! I will have to try this myself.
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#5 Post by rnabholz » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:11 am

hkv wrote:Very cool! I will have to try this myself.
Please do, I would love to see your stuff in 3D.

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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#6 Post by billbillt » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:59 pm

I see a pile of petrified wood....

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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#7 Post by rnabholz » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:54 am

billbillt wrote:I see a pile of petrified wood....

BillT
Ha! Yes, I can see that too now that you mention it.

It's like a Microscopy Rohrschach......

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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#8 Post by McConkey » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:21 am

I'm a little bit late to the party on this one but i have no problem bringing this topic back to life with a question!

Actually, first of...really great image Rod! 53 stack looking that clean is very impressive!! Great image and i'd love to view it in 3D!

To test the theory of "theres no such thing as stupid questions"...How do you view this in 3D? I am right in thinking you print it off and view through a stereoscope? Is there a device that you can strap to your head and view these in 3D right off the computer screen?? I feel like i should know these answers but i dont! Do you make your own stereoscopes?...I've tried crossing my eyes to see if it came to life but i just got dizzy :(

aha I appreciate anyone who can point me in the right direction!
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#9 Post by apochronaut » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:34 am

you kind of have to cross your eyes, and then it looks like the end of the broken wine cork, that came from the bottle you have just consumed.

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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#10 Post by KurtM » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:52 am

Karl, and whoever else may not be familiar with these, they're commonly referred to as cross-eye stereo pairs. They require nothing more than a bit of eyeball acrobatics to "see", and if you can manage it, such pairs, when well done, actually add quite a lot of information to photomicrographs and macro photos by revealing shapes that simply aren't apparent in single images. But don't take my word for it - explore them yourself! Some stereo pairs are easier to "get" than others; some pop out with tons of 3-D effect while others only sort of confuse the eye, so it's best to begin eye training with images that are guaranteed to work very well, and I can think of no better than the work of the great Charles Krebs! Check these out:

http://krebsmicro.com/3Dstacks/index.html

Cross your eyes more or less until you get three images, then concentrate on the middle one. But it's kinda tricky, you can't stare at the center image, you just gotta sorta hang loose with the three images kinda floating in front of you and keep relaxed and sooner or later the center one will begin to gel, and then pop into view - and knock you off your chair, so be careful.
Last edited by KurtM on Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#11 Post by Crater Eddie » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:24 am

It might help to back away from the screen farther than normal, at least until you get the hang of it. Its well worth the effort. Good luck!
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#12 Post by McConkey » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:54 pm

Thanks for the explanation Kurt! I had a feeling it used the cross-eye method! Unfortunately that's something i've never been able to do, even Mr. Krebs images didn't work for me...same with those "magic eye" images! My brain has just never been able to process them i guess? Maybe i'll make a steroscope!

Thanks anyway though! The info was super helpful!
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#13 Post by einman » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:49 pm

A Six-pack makes it much easier...wait now I have 4 images!!

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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#14 Post by KurtM » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:04 am

I was going to mention that some people seem incapable of seeing cross-eye stereo images as intended, but thought I'd just keep quiet at first so as not to plant doubt needlessly.

At this point, I think Mr. einman may be on to something here - perhaps a pint or two of stout might help...
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#15 Post by McConkey » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:12 am

Oooh now you mention some people can't do it! After i spent half the night trying! :lol: at this point I'll just have to live vicariously through everyone else!
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#16 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:15 am

I find it very convenient to view these pairs in the iPad ... 'pinch-zooming' makes it simple to adjust the spacing of the two images to match my inter-ocular distance.

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P.S. I believe this pair is for parallel viewing, not cross-eyed.
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#17 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:22 pm

rnabholz:

At first I thought - that is some colorful Indian canvas wrapped in a clear plastic bag.

Then I read the ideas about a six-pack, pint of stout, eyeball rolling, brain training etc.

From the depth of the closet came the 70yr old folding stereoscope (Raumbild Verlag). Rusty, but usable, originally it came with a huge set of pairs of still pictures in black and white (flowers, butterflies etc). Each pair is printed on a card that fits inside the frame of the stereoscope. Each photo is 5cmx5cm. The distance between the centers in each pair is 5.7 cm.

So I copied your stack into an Irfanview image, cut each side (left and right) and pasted into a drawing software sheet (the cuts were exactly the same dimensions!!!) and tweaked the photos to locate the centers 5.7cm apart. The photos were somewhat too wide, so I moved the right one so it partially overlaps the left one.

Printing and viewing - and a beautiful 3D result! I see the ends of the crystals in the pack. It resembles a cut bunch of carpet coarse textile strings or strips. Or maybe burnt wood. It is certainly neither a canyon nor plastic-wrapped cloth.

There are probably much more modern ways to do this, I did it in the old-fashioned way...but true 3D.
Perhaps the disposable plastic eyeglasses for 3D movies could be used.

This 3D stack can be useful indeed!
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#18 Post by McConkey » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:00 pm

Hobbyst46 - Exactly what I had in mind!!! Thankyou for posting and sharing your dimensions! As old as this technology is they really can’t be beaten! I remember making them in high school and creating our own 3D images. It’s a really neat project for anyone with kids!! I’m still searching the depths of the closets for mine but I’m absolutely thrilled someone else has a device that is able to make this work!!

Thanks for sharing!!!
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#19 Post by KurtM » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:33 pm

Having grown up with one, I made sure to obtain a nice antique stereo viewer and small collection of picture-pair cards for it, like this (not my web page):
https://tinyurl.com/y9zgxoh3

Since this business of cross-eye stereo pairs came along (or parallel or whatever, it's all the same to me at this point in my development), I have found it easy and amusing to view my old stereo cards "free-eyed", without the viewer. Interestingly, they occasionally "pop out" in reverse, where foreground objects weirdly appear further away and vice-versa, yet the picture comes up correctly in the viewer. I can even view the cards correctly on the web page I linked to above with little hesitation. Strange, I wonder why it's easy for some and impossible for others?

EDIT: I started poking around the www and discovered this fascinating site, which offers pocket 3-D viewers for sale among a host of other cool stuff:
http://www.berezin.com/3d/cardvwr.htm
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#20 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:53 pm

Karl
A little off subject but nevertheless. Since you are using an M3 camera which is of the same series as my M10. Do you use it focally or afocally and if the latter - which camera lens?
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#21 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:29 pm

KurtM wrote: Since this business of cross-eye stereo pairs came along (or parallel or whatever, it's all the same to me at this point in my development) ...
You may find this of interest, Kurt

http://www.lockhaven.edu/~dsimanek/3d/view3d.htm

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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#22 Post by McConkey » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:42 pm

...still looking for my steroscope Kurt! Now that i see more people with one it's making me really wonder where the heck mine disappeared too! I used to have a nice collection of the cards you speak! Alot of very sturn looking Victorians and early 1900 gardens!

I find it fascinating that sometimes the foreground and background would switch for you! Can you control that? I wish i knew why some people can do it and some people cannot!
Thanks for the link to the pocket glasses! Those are super neat!

For those interested here are a few "magic eye" images...I assume they work!! I wouldn't know!!
http://www.vision3d.com/sghidden.html

Micheal - Still no luck even with your link! However that is a very resourceful link you posted! Thanks!
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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#23 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:19 pm

McConkey wrote:Micheal - Still no luck even with your link!
You might try looking at the images through a pair of parallel tubes [toilet-roll inners are suitable] and wearing close-vision spectacles if you need them. The main difficulty with 'parallel viewing' is keeping your eyes distance-adjusted & not converged, whilst at the same time focussing on something close.

As I mentioned earlier; this image pair works best when spaced at your inter-ocular distance.

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Re: Zerene Synthetic Stereo

#24 Post by KurtM » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:51 am

I love weird eye tricks, what can possibly be more fun? Thanks for the link MichaelG., I'll be studying it...

Karl, I hope you'll stick with it, as it could be extremely interesting (and just plain great in general) if you suddenly get it. I'm thinking along the lines of helping others who can't see these images, wouldn't that be neat?
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