PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

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MicroBob
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PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#1 Post by MicroBob » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:17 am

Hi together,

I place this in a separate thread: From PZO there are upper DIC units named MPI-2, MPI-3 (the one I have) and MPI-5 (looks different than the two before). The revolver condenser seems to be always KPI-2. In the internet I found a description of the newest system for the Biolar, with MPI-5, KPI-2 and additional slit condenser.
The MPI-3 head seems to be the least common and I haven't found anything about it in the internet
.
Does someone have information what the difference between these three upper DIC units is? Does someone have a manual for the system with my MPI-3 head?

Bob

apochronaut
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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#2 Post by apochronaut » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:04 pm

I have an English language manual sent directly to me from the factory in 1989, not very long before they shut down. It is however dated 1976. Presumably, it was still the most up to date manual they had at the time; in English.

The model # MPI 3 Zs 3 is listed as the slit condenser, MPI 3 Zs 4 is listed as the polarizer that fits below it and also below the KP1 2 Zs 1, polarizing interference condenser, when fitted with the polarizer. From this, I would garner that MPI 3 is the slit condenser and KPI 2 the rotating prism condenser, yet you say you have an interference head that has MPI-3 stamped on it?

The interference head is listed as UPI Zs 1. The interference head that I have has no model # on it but looks identical to the one pictured in the manual and as well, resembles most that I see listed for sale. There is what appears to be an older design, with a slightly different dovetail and a shorter silver coloured prism selection lever, with the selection markings on the top center, rather than on the top edge. Those appear to be the only differences.

I believe that the Zs 1 designation relates to the instrument that the parts are adapted to fit on, in this case the BIOLAR Zs .
Last edited by apochronaut on Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

apochronaut
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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#3 Post by apochronaut » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:11 pm

My interference head has a serial # of 01384. Here is # 01385 for sale.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PZO-Microscope ... Swug5c~nWW

Note that there is in fact no model # on the unit. The seller is calling it MPI-5 but has no real info. to back that up. The manual says it is a UPI, with no qualifying series, other than it's application to a specific stand , such as Zs 1.

MicroBob
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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#4 Post by MicroBob » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:00 pm

Hi Phil,
from what I know the head from the ebay link is the MPI-5 with a different type of lever and some other differences to the MPI-3 and MPI-2 heads.

My DIC head is really named MPI-3.

I have seen complete kits with box that include one head and two condensers, slit and revolver. This would probably mean that there is no special head needed for the slit condenser.

Bob

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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#5 Post by apochronaut » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:07 pm

Does your head actually say MPI 3 on it?


The standard kit contains the following; from rear left to front right as the box is opened away from you with literal codes and numerical part numbers.
Multiple nosepiece RO4 Zs 1, 27500701 : Soft Brushes ZN-57/MPC/15-01090, 0.9.07.0100 : Flannel Cloth IA-No.1 ZN-57/MPC/15-01124, 0.9.08.0100 : Condenser with slit MPI 3 Zs 3, 25510703 : Polarizer Enclosed MPI 3 Zs 4, 25510704 :
Standard Plate PPI/100 Zs 1-01, 28310001 : Interference Filter 546nm Fi 546 Zs 1, 28580701 : 10X SK eyepiece OK10SK Zs 1, 41200701 : Interference Head UPI Zs 1, 25520701 : 10X SK eyepiece OK10SK Zs 1, 41200701 : Interference Filter 590nm Fi 590 Zs 1 : Polarizing Interference Condenser KPI 2 Zs 1, 26400701 : Micrometric Eyepiece Plate 10/100 MOL 10/100 cz 1-01 : Auxillary Microscope MPh Zs 1, 26320701 : Polarizing interference X10 Objective Ob 103 PI Zs, 3720 : Polarizing interference X20 objective Ob 203 PI Zs, 3721 : Polarizing interference X40 objective Ob 403 PI Zs, 3722 : Polarizing interference X100 objective Ob 1003 PI Zs, 3723 : Key KPI 2 Zs 1-7, 26400807 : Condenser key KF 15 Zs 2, 25860702 : Technical Description, 23922980 : Guarantee Card, 25522998.

MicroBob
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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#6 Post by MicroBob » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:03 pm

apochronaut wrote:Does your head actually say MPI 3 on it?
Yes it does.
Apart from the name it looks like the MPI-2.

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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#7 Post by apochronaut » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:42 pm

Any chance of seeing a picture of where the model # is located? I can't find any on my example.. Where is it located?

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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#8 Post by MicroBob » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:27 pm

Here 3 pictures of my MB 30.
The microscope and the two DIC components were bought separately. I just got the original trino tube too. :D
Generally I'm somewhat allergic against non-black microscopes, but I really like this one.
In the background is the bay window I'm working right now - last project to finish my lab/office room.
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apochronaut
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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#9 Post by apochronaut » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:43 pm

Nice microscope. Are those the Microplans?

So, on the body of mine and the one pictured in the Biolar DIC manual , instead of one wide grooved ring, there are 7 very narrow grooved rings. Mine seems like it might be a bit taller too. The physical height of it's black body is 81mm and I can't see the knurled wheel for rotating the polarizer in and out on yours, which on mine is under the dovetail clamping screw.

Just the PZO Warzawa logo, Made in Poland and 01384 on the top. No other marks, other than the 1 2 3 0 for the prism lever. I have looked everywhere, even took off the top.
Perhaps they discontinued your model and transferred the model code to the slit condenser.

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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#10 Post by apochronaut » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:54 pm

In looking through the bibliography of the PZO Biolar Polarizing Interference Microscope manual Pg. 91-95, I see that a certain number of the entries refer to an MPI5 microscope. Not an MPI5 interference head but a Microscope Polarizing Interference 5. I'm going to guess that your MPI3 is just a different model of microscope; a Microscope Polarizing Interference 3.
The MPI5 may have been the Biolar but they also made the slightly lesser Studar L and a Studar M . I'm pretty sure the Studar was also offered as a DIC fitted unit. I have a technical sheet tucked away somewhere. My thinking now goes that the MPI3 marking may just be for a different system used on the Studar M or maybe even a less elaborate system used on the Biolar too.

Does your MPI3 have a built in polarizer?

Also, Bob, check page 6 of the Biolar manual. They specifically mention the UPI polarizing interference attachment.

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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#11 Post by MicroBob » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:51 am

Hi Phil,
thank you for looking into this. My MPI-3 has an analyser too that is operated from the open side of the stand.
When I shortly tried the setup I followed the description in the (newer?) Biolar manual and set the polarizer and analyzer accordingly. With a bit of fiddling on the controls I got a promising looking DIC image with adjustable background colour and little gradient. But this was just a quick try.
My microscope is named MB 30 - this could also be the source of the "MPI-3" name.
I can't relly imagine that they made different DIC sets for lesser microscope stands. The cost of the DIC set will have been a lot higher than that of a Biolar so saving on the stand wouldn't have saved much. With the polarizers DIC also needs quite a bit of light so the simplest course microscopes wouldn't have had enough power.
It is possible that my MPI-3 head has less height than your MPI-5 head. I read in one forum that the MPI-5 might be better suited for a wide range different objectives, but I don't know how dependable this bit of information is.

I try to make some more pictures and measure the height this evening.

Bob

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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#12 Post by zzffnn » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:53 am

An eBay seller from Poland told me the same thing: MPI-5 is supposed to be better. I did not ask why and did not buy it though.

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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#13 Post by apochronaut » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:28 am

MicroBob wrote:Hi Phil,
thank you for looking into this. My MPI-3 has an analyser too that is operated from the open side of the stand.
When I shortly tried the setup I followed the description in the (newer?) Biolar manual and set the polarizer and analyzer accordingly. With a bit of fiddling on the controls I got a promising looking DIC image with adjustable background colour and little gradient. But this was just a quick try.
My microscope is named MB 30 - this could also be the source of the "MPI-3" name.
I can't relly imagine that they made different DIC sets for lesser microscope stands. The cost of the DIC set will have been a lot higher than that of a Biolar so saving on the stand wouldn't have saved much. With the polarizers DIC also needs quite a bit of light so the simplest course microscopes wouldn't have had enough power.
It is possible that my MPI-3 head has less height than your MPI-5 head. I read in one forum that the MPI-5 might be better suited for a wide range different objectives, but I don't know how dependable this bit of information is.

I try to make some more pictures and measure the height this evening.

Bob
The price of a 100 watt Biolar in 1989 was right around $2,000 CDN., with hardwood case a DF condenser , a 5 position nosepiece with 5 planachros and 3 sets of plan compensating eyepieces. With the polarizing interference contrast system, it was about another 1000.00. Here is a 2 page product brochure for the microscope. The standard base is only 15 watts, and is the base upon which quite a few of the polarizing interference systems were fitted. I think the Studar L and M also had the same illumination set up. I have those brochures too. I'll see if I can find them. Perhaps the polarizing interference system listed is a different one.

Note that in the brochure above, the interference polarizer is listed as UPI but the simple polarizing device, which I take to be a more simple polarizer/analyzer , is listed as a UPO1.
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MicroBob
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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#14 Post by MicroBob » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:21 pm

Hi Phil,
the I was wrong, I would have expected a different relation between the prices of the microscope and DIC kit.

Bob

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Re: PZO DIC with MPI-3 and KPI-2

#15 Post by MicroBob » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:34 am

Hi together,
as promised a couple of pictures of the MPI-3 and two measurements.
The height of the head is 66,25mm flange to flange. The black part alone is ca. 61,25mm.
There is no scale on the screw at the slide as it would be with a micrometer.

Bob
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pdic3.jpg
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