Hello from Bloomington, IN, USA - home brewer -

[jgreen]

Hello from Bloomington, IN, USA.

I'm a home brewer and will dive into microscopes as part of my yeast management, looking for bacteria and general fun. I'm an avid photographer having used every format, and was also deep into telescopes but have since given that up. For my first foray, I grabbed an inexpensive Chinese thing from Ebay which was probably a mistake. It was less than 100 shipped, halogen and trinocular - so I popped. It's not here yet, so we'll see what it is next week. Edmund Scientific XSB-411 if anyone knows anything about those.

[apochronaut]

welcome . yeast is yeast and west is west and beware of too much brewhahah!

[billbillt]

Hi jgreen,

The Chinese microscope will probably do just fine for a hobby... If you were into research, you might would want something with maybe more features... Just my amateur opinion...

BillT

[gekko]

Welcome to the forum. Your microscope should be fine assuming it is in good working condition. Some knowledgeable people on this forum usually recommend getting an inexpensive scope to begin with, and then, as you gain experience and figure out its limitations as well as your goals, you may decide to get a better one. Yeast cells and bacteria are pretty small, so I guess that you will be using your 40x dry and 100x oil-immersion objectives quite a bit.

[jgreen]

Thanks all,

I'm wondering what immersion oils I can use? I know they should be low refraction, surely there is something I can use that I already have without spending more money? Looks like mineral oil is 1.47, and Nyoil is a light clear 10-weight mineral oil.

Look at this: http://gr5.org/index_of_refraction/

[billbillt]

Sure!... Baby oil, castor oil... Probably most any oil that you have... I wouldn't maybe use a petroleum based product... I could possibly have an effect on the lens cement, but maybe not... Hope this helps...

BillT

[apochronaut]

The refraction needs to be as close to that of the glass used in the slide/coverslip/front lens combination, which is about 1.51 or higher. Almost all oils, including vegetable oils, castor oil, mineral oil are around 1.47. Some mineral oils get as high as 1.48+ If you use one of these oils, you will get good but not great results. You won't notice a difference until you actually compare the 1.47 oils to correct immersion oil. They work in a pinch. I have used a very clear grade of tung oil, which is close to the refractive index required. Remove the oil after use with a mild solvent...alcohol, or N-heptane. Some people use others.
Igf you are using the microscope regularly, you can just remove the oil with about 3 cotton swabs and 99% of it will be gone. Any that is residual, will get absorbed by the new oil.

[lorez]

Hello and welcome, home-brew.

Discussing which immersion oil to use on your microscope is like discussing which Pirelli to put on your wheelbarrow.

I'll come over for a brew and bring a microscope.

lorez

Sorry about being a smart #$$.

[jgreen]

Sorry about being a smart #$$.

Ha! If you only knew. If there is one thing that might go on my tombstone, it would be "wow, what a smart@$$!"

You and anyone else is welcome anytime for home brew and microscope talk, if you are in Bloomington, IN let me know.

I'm pleased to report that the scope showed up, and it's exactly perfect for my needs. I'd love to see a top end scope to compare, but what I have now exceeds my expectations. The mechanical stage is way more robust than it looked in the auction pics, and the trinocular capability is excellent. It came with photo adapters, extra slides, three sets of eyepieces, etc. Now my boys and I are trying to figure out what slides to prepare before I delve into yeast and bacteria.

[KurtM]

On the other hand, a small bottle of Cargill Type A immersion oil cost $3.85, plus S&H (which probably makes it the better part of a 15 dollar bill), and looks pretty cool sitting there on the shelf, almost as if you know what you're doing, lol.

http://www.cargille.com/immeroil.shtml

I had a friend persuade me to have a go at home brewing some years ago. I made a grand total of 5 five gallon batches, which I bottled instead of kegged because I wanted the bottling experience, but ended up deciding it wasn't for me after all. I will always be super happy I did it, however, because the education I got out of it was (is) so invaluable. Anyone who loves beer and/or wine owes it to self to try home brewing/wine making, especially if you're into microscopy. It's a trip!

[jgreen]

Thanks Kurt

I'm not opposed to ordering more stuff, I guess mostly I was wanting to get off the ground quick without waiting and was looking for home brew alternatives. (see what I did there)

I'm now also wondering what I could use for doing gram stains, as I have a batch right now just begging me to put it under the scope to see what bugs are in it. It's either wild yeast, lacto or ? I need to do some reading on staining today.

Agree about home brewing totally. Biology, chemistry, metallurgy, thermodynamics, etc etc. In the last month or so I've finished bottling 15g of a pale, 11g of a robust porter, and 11g of a Belgian tripel. Time for a rest.

[KurtM]

Yeah, I saw what ya did there...

I understand, and have great respect for "homebrew" strategies that get one up and running right this minute. Been there, done that. Although I've been using microscopes on and off since I was a kid (soon to turn 56 now), I never had any training, or really learned how to use them beyond the basics. Then a few years back, when it finally occurred to me to probe the internet wealth of knowledge, my interest took off in earnest, and definitely in my typical OCD fashion. I'm only now settling into the groove of a reasonably skilled amateur microscopist (still far from expert, mind you).

I'm sad to say the epochal turn hadn't yet occurred when I was home brewing, and although I was vaguely aware that others used microscopes in the doing of it, I never quite got around to it (dang it). I did attempt to study bacteria colonies in biological filtration systems back when I kept a freshwater aquarium, but that was also before I learned the techniques necessary to make such effort worthwhile, so those results were unspectacular at best.

I still don't know a lot about observing bacteria and yeast, and hope you keep asking questions and getting answers so I can learn along with you. Wish I were closer, would love to swing by for a visit. How deep are you into brewing, are you doing extracts, full grain, roasting your own malts and farming your own hops, or what?

[jgreen]

How deep are you into brewing, are you doing extracts, full grain, roasting your own malts and farming your own hops, or what?

To give you a rough idea, my wife says I "conquer hobbies".

I started brewing 20 some years ago, stopped in there for a long while, then renewed a few years ago with renewed vigor. When I started it was complicated, with lots of kettles, pump transfers, huge brewing stand etc. Now, I have a far more simplified approach, not unlike monastic brewing with minimal hardware and doing Belgian beers mostly. I brew all grain (extract is arguably not brewing), grow hops in the backyard, have not roasted malts. Before I started doing Belgians, I wanted to do an ice bock where you freeze and then decant several times which is basically a freeze distillation. Also I wanted to do a rauchbier which uses fire heated rocks in a basket immersed into the kettle to boil. The rocks are saved with the caramelized wort on them, to be placed in the fermenters which dissolves the coating back into the beer.

With Belgians, it's a much more purist approach with the yeast and process being the main thing. There are a few home brewers using microscopes for yeast counting etc, but it is likely of little overall benefit since it doesn't really change what you are doing. I'm doing it for fun, get rough yeast counts, and maybe ID whether yeast or bacteria, etc.

[KurtM]

...it is likely of little overall benefit since it doesn't really change what you are doing. I'm doing it for fun, get rough yeast counts, and maybe ID whether yeast or bacteria, etc.

Well there ya go! I'm a pretty decent chef (no really, even have some training), and used my scope to have a closer look at the rouxs, sauces, and other things I made. It was definitely enlightening, although I can't say it made any difference in how I concocted them. As far as I'm concerned, microscopes add a great deal of fun to a lot of things we do, and you never know when it really will help. Nothing like a stereo scope to help you learn how to sharpen knives, for instance - you can see exactly what's happening at a glance.