Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

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Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#1 Post by IvaniaAreas » Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:34 am

Hello everyone, let me just say how excited I am to have found this neat website. Anyways I’m 24 and I just recently got my associates degree in natural sciences and mathematics, I’m currently job hunting for a lab tech job. After next fall I plan on going to a 4 year university, I am thinking about majoring in ecology or microbiology. I’m
Interested mainly in conservation and I’m looking to eventually get a job in research related fields. I have ambition to get a masters and maybe even a Ph D. Does anyone have any advice into going forward into the biology job field? What is the hardest part about being a bio major? I’m not the smartest student in the classroom but I am hard working and I think I can come up with creative solutions. If anyone is currently in any research based fields, what does it take to become a researcher? How can I better prepare for getting a job as a researcher? Thank you in advance for any advice and suggestions. Really appreciate any perspectives. :D

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#2 Post by wporter » Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:03 am

Whereabouts are you located? What city do you plan to go to the 4-yr Uni in? This has something to do with what answers you will get.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#3 Post by IvaniaAreas » Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:33 am

Yes of course. I live in California, and I’ll be going to uni in the Bay Area.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#4 Post by wporter » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:35 am

OK, that's good information.

You might at least temporarily hook up with a state agency or the like as a helper-tester/nasal-swabber at a coronavirus testing station, perhaps as an intern or even a volunteer at a local hospital. At least in the near-term; and I know it sounds funny, but it can be an essential task right now.

Longer-term, as you go to the uni, you will have to decide how you want to live your scientific life. Do you want to spend much time outdoors, or be always indoors, mostly at a desk or at 20' of lab bench?

The most jobs are certainly in molecular biology (think biotech), followed distantly by microbiology (think state agencies, etc), followed even more distantly by the very few jobs in conservation/ecology/wildlife (think zoo conservation programs, academia, or state bureaucracies). "Research jobs" are held by PhDs, mostly in academia, but they always need subordinates, and these aren't always post-docs.

You need to find out what interests you; this is crucial. In high school, I thought I wanted to work in chemistry; once I took a few college chem courses, I decided I was uninterested in it. The point being, expose yourself to as much different types of biology courses as possible as an undergrad. You're not expected to over-specialize at that point. Some people seem to know what they want to do from the age of five, but most of us aren't like that!

As you get back into school, try to get a feel for what the professors you admire are doing themselves. If one of them is doing interesting research, take as many of their courses as you can, try to be a lab or field helper, or better yet, their grad student. Try to hook up with a personable prof; one with a lot of busy grad students is a good choice. Biology is a very 'social' science; the ability to get along and ignore the politics and personalities goes a long way.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#5 Post by IvaniaAreas » Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:29 am

Thank you so much for taking your time to reply. The advice you gave is very helpful. So currently, I’m looking into getting any type of entry level lab job I can. I just want to get a start in the science field however I can. In my city there are mostly sample data entry/ sample prep jobs I can get with my associates degree. When I get into 4 year I plan on majoring in ecology. Last semester I took a botany class and I absolutely loved it, much more than my zoology class.

Long term goals for me include getting into this really amazing masters program at this place called Moss Landing Marine Laboratories (check it out if you can it’s AMAZING). Of course I have to figure out what I can do to get in. I know for sure they have some classes that require a scuba diving license, so I’m interested in getting that certification.

May I ask about yourself? Are you in a bio related field? What got you into this forum? Anyways thank you again my good friend.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#6 Post by IvaniaAreas » Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:57 am

wporter wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:35 am
OK, that's good information.

You might at least temporarily hook up with a state agency or the like as a helper-tester/nasal-swabber at a coronavirus testing station, perhaps as an intern or even a volunteer at a local hospital. At least in the near-term; and I know it sounds funny, but it can be an essential task right now.

Longer-term, as you go to the uni, you will have to decide how you want to live your scientific life. Do you want to spend much time outdoors, or be always indoors, mostly at a desk or at 20' of lab bench?

The most jobs are certainly in molecular biology (think biotech), followed distantly by microbiology (think state agencies, etc), followed even more distantly by the very few jobs in conservation/ecology/wildlife (think zoo conservation programs, academia, or state bureaucracies). "Research jobs" are held by PhDs, mostly in academia, but they always need subordinates, and these aren't always post-docs.

You need to find out what interests you; this is crucial. In high school, I thought I wanted to work in chemistry; once I took a few college chem courses, I decided I was uninterested in it. The point being, expose yourself to as much different types of biology courses as possible as an undergrad. You're not expected to over-specialize at that point. Some people seem to know what they want to do from the age of five, but most of us aren't like that!

As you get back into school, try to get a feel for what the professors you admire are doing themselves. If one of them is doing interesting research, take as many of their courses as you can, try to be a lab or field helper, or better yet, their grad student. Try to hook up with a personable prof; one with a lot of busy grad students is a good choice. Biology is a very 'social' science; the ability to get along and ignore the politics and personalities goes a long way.
Thank you so much for taking your time to reply. The advice you gave is very helpful. So currently, I’m looking into getting any type of entry level lab job I can. I just want to get a start in the science field however I can. In my city there are mostly sample data entry/ sample prep jobs I can get with my associates degree. When I get into 4 year I plan on majoring in ecology. Last semester I took a botany class and I absolutely loved it, much more than my zoology class.

Long term goals for me include getting into this really amazing masters program at this place called Moss Landing Marine Laboratories (check it out if you can it’s AMAZING). Of course I have to figure out what I can do to get in. I know for sure they have some classes that require a scuba diving license, so I’m interested in getting that certification.

May I ask about yourself? Are you in a bio related field? What got you into this forum? Anyways thank you again my good friend.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#7 Post by apochronaut » Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:31 am

So, you have some fairly clear goals. If you plan in the future to enter a Master's program at a place like Moss Landing Marine Laboratories, I would be fairly targeted in what I do between now and then. As Bill pointed out, getting hands on work in the biological sciences can only benefit your skill set , whether it be in human biology, botany or whatever. Many of the skills are common or transferable.

Facilities such as Moss Landing would have admissions criteria that are most likely prejudicial towards students who have shown tendencies or have done research papers, or a thesis that directly reflects or supports their areas of research. In whatever you do in the near future I would keep that in view and try to steer my education and interests towards being seen in as favourable a light as possible by my intended institution.

The number of papers that use the word "marine ecology" have exploded since the last 1/3 of the 20th century. A study in 2010 showed somewhere around a 150,000% increase since 1970 in Europe and it is for sure much moreso , now. There will be a lot of competition, so tailoring your studies will be important.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#8 Post by IvaniaAreas » Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:27 pm

apochronaut wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:31 am
So, you have some fairly clear goals. If you plan in the future to enter a Master's program at a place like Moss Landing Marine Laboratories, I would be fairly targeted in what I do between now and then. As Bill pointed out, getting hands on work in the biological sciences can only benefit your skill set , whether it be in human biology, botany or whatever. Many of the skills are common or transferable.

Facilities such as Moss Landing would have admissions criteria that are most likely prejudicial towards students who have shown tendencies or have done research papers, or a thesis that directly reflects or supports their areas of research. In whatever you do in the near future I would keep that in view and try to steer my education and interests towards being seen in as favourable a light as possible by my intended institution.

The number of papers that use the word "marine ecology" have exploded since the last 1/3 of the 20th century. A study in 2010 showed somewhere around a 150,000% increase since 1970 in Europe and it is for sure much moreso , now. There will be a lot of competition, so tailoring your studies will be important.
I’m am happy to hear that many of the skills I will need come with experience regardless where it comes from. It feels like it makes my goals more attainable. I have posted questions about the field in other forums and there seems to be a consensus that I really need to work with my professors in the future. I have free time since it is summer where I am now, one thing I’m planning on getting is a microscope. I am not really sure what I intend on doing with it yet but I’ll say this, I think getting myself a microscope and preparing my own sample slides will be a step in the right direction. Also I appreciate your response, thank you.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#9 Post by DrPhoxinus » Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:46 pm

I am a biologist in evolutionary biology with a minor in computer science. I think it is important for a bio student to have a trade. My computer skills is a bigger share of my income than my bio teaching.

Between ecology and microbiology I would choose micro.
You will have skills useful in a lab and you could always do the ecology of microbes.

Good Luck

As Pasteur said “Chance favors a prepared mind”

Gerard

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#10 Post by wporter » Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:48 pm

May I ask about yourself? Are you in a bio related field? What got you into this forum?
I'm a 70-yr-old retired engineer who likes to fuss with microscopes, and got my bio degree (M.S.) late in life (at 55!), as what might be called a lifelong learner, at the local Cal State campus (and was self-employed, which helped a lot), so am not any sort of role model. When I was there, I maintained the SEM for awhile, but it was all about molecular biology and genetics, running gels, etc. Microscopes were not emphasized like they may have been 40 years before, although they did have a closet full of decrepit student Nikons, I never saw them used when I was a TA (teaching assistant.) I think with today's new microscope technology, at least on the more advanced and well-funded campuses, microscopes per se are now much more useful to researchers. So if you get any kind of a good scope and learn how to use it, it will serve you well as a skill, one among many. Sort of like a physics student taking machine-shop or electronics courses. The more you can learn early, the more valuable you will be in the job market, and the easier it will be to absorb your education; flexing your brain, so to speak.

This forum, and the other one at photomacrography.net, are invaluable. People here have such a wide variety of interests and are willing to share them in a friendly environment (not something to scoff at, in this era of contentiousness.)

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#11 Post by wporter » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:10 pm

What is the hardest part about being a bio major?
The hardest part of any college regimen is possibly just putting up with the courses that you have no interest in, but must complete anyway. Part of the rite-of-passage that is going to college: proving to future employers that you can do the work and stick with it. Most of the details of the stuff you learn in college you will soon forget, but the important thing is that you were once exposed to it.

One thing that is very important for all young scientists is having some courses in statistics (in your case, biostatistics). I can't emphasize this enough. Even though it sounds very dry and boring, a good knowledge of statistics and experimental design and how they are to be correctly applied is sadly lacking among many professional scientists with PhDs. The percentage of professional publications that have serious or notable errors of statistical analysis in many of their journal articles is amazing. The medical field is probably the worst; physics probably the least egregious. Biology is somewhere in between, with ecology a relatively shining star; probably since ecology relies so much on proper analysis, its practioners are more acquainted with it. Anyway, a good appreciation for stats will enable you to read critically, and properly cast a jaundiced eye on, journal articles that you read (and you do a lot of this as a grad student.)

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#12 Post by DrPhoxinus » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:37 pm

I concur with wporter. I got involved with computing after doing a ANOVA on a calculator, and vowed never to do that again.
Sir Ronald Fisher, a genius biologist, invented ANOVA to test fertilizers on corn. Much of statistics has it origin in biology.
The grease in my Zeiss I used in grad school has hardened. Gee its only been 40 years since my PhD. I was told that what a PhD is is a testament that you didn't give up.

You can understand a lot of variation in biostatistics without being a math wiz

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#13 Post by IvaniaAreas » Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:58 pm

DrPhoxinus wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:46 pm
I am a biologist in evolutionary biology with a minor in computer science. I think it is important for a bio student to have a trade. My computer skills is a bigger share of my income than my bio teaching.

Between ecology and microbiology I would choose micro.
You will have skills useful in a lab and you could always do the ecology of microbes.

Good Luck

As Pasteur said “Chance favors a prepared mind”

Gerard
Yes it is a very hard choice between ecology and microbiology. Truth be told I think they are both fascinating, but my heart is definitely in ecology. After reading reply’s on here I started to look into summer internships. Good news is that there are some available in my area! I’m on my way to take my upper division bio classes soon, along the way I’ve learned that my biggest strong point is my ability to work strongly within a team. Perhaps being a team player is a type of trade? Haha not sure but I’ll also say that in terms of trades I’m a jack of many. You should see my employment history! It ranges from working at a pizzeria to working as a tutor at my college campus to going door to door canvassing for a window company (and MANY more odd jobs). I’m currently working at a hardware store but I’ve just graduated with my associates degree and I’m job hunting. Anyways I’m rambling. Thank you for the reply and advice! Cheers.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#14 Post by IvaniaAreas » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:05 pm

wporter wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:48 pm
May I ask about yourself? Are you in a bio related field? What got you into this forum?
I'm a 70-yr-old retired engineer who likes to fuss with microscopes, and got my bio degree (M.S.) late in life (at 55!), as what might be called a lifelong learner, at the local Cal State campus (and was self-employed, which helped a lot), so am not any sort of role model. When I was there, I maintained the SEM for awhile, but it was all about molecular biology and genetics, running gels, etc. Microscopes were not emphasized like they may have been 40 years before, although they did have a closet full of decrepit student Nikons, I never saw them used when I was a TA (teaching assistant.) I think with today's new microscope technology, at least on the more advanced and well-funded campuses, microscopes per se are now much more useful to researchers. So if you get any kind of a good scope and learn how to use it, it will serve you well as a skill, one among many. Sort of like a physics student taking machine-shop or electronics courses. The more you can learn early, the more valuable you will be in the job market, and the easier it will be to absorb your education; flexing your brain, so to speak.

This forum, and the other one at photomacrography.net, are invaluable. People here have such a wide variety of interests and are willing to share them in a friendly environment (not something to scoff at, in this era of contentiousness.)
I absolutely love using the microscope during my bio labs. The majority of my botany class was using the microscope and learning how to differentiate parts of the plants. I hope there are many more microscope labs to come!

Also congratulations on being a life long learner! I think I’ll be in school for a very long time myself. I don’t mind it and I have plenty of time left in my life to do other things (like travel!).

I agree with you as well about this forum, everyone is giving me amazing advice and information. Seems to be a great community of people just talking about science, it’s refreshing. Makes me feel fortunate to live in a time where we can have communication like this. This forum definitely confirmed that I want to buy myself a microscope!

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#15 Post by IvaniaAreas » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:11 pm

wporter wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:10 pm
What is the hardest part about being a bio major?
The hardest part of any college regimen is possibly just putting up with the courses that you have no interest in, but must complete anyway. Part of the rite-of-passage that is going to college: proving to future employers that you can do the work and stick with it. Most of the details of the stuff you learn in college you will soon forget, but the important thing is that you were once exposed to it.

One thing that is very important for all young scientists is having some courses in statistics (in your case, biostatistics). I can't emphasize this enough. Even though it sounds very dry and boring, a good knowledge of statistics and experimental design and how they are to be correctly applied is sadly lacking among many professional scientists with PhDs. The percentage of professional publications that have serious or notable errors of statistical analysis in many of their journal articles is amazing. The medical field is probably the worst; physics probably the least egregious. Biology is somewhere in between, with ecology a relatively shining star; probably since ecology relies so much on proper analysis, its practioners are more acquainted with it. Anyway, a good appreciation for stats will enable you to read critically, and properly cast a jaundiced eye on, journal articles that you read (and you do a lot of this as a grad student.)
Well that’s good news to me! Biostatistics doesn’t seem that bad of a course. So far the hardest class I’ve had was my physics! My goodness, that class was so difficult to grasp. I finally understood how to approach my physics class and after 2 times of retaking that class I finally passed (with a B!). My mathematics courses are really not that bad, highest math course I’ve taken is early transcendentals (calc 1). Biostatistics seems pretty interesting frankly, I’m not the worst at math and what I’ve learned is that with math courses you really must work HARD. Math is not easy but very rewarding when you understand it.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#16 Post by IvaniaAreas » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:18 pm

DrPhoxinus wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:37 pm
I concur with wporter. I got involved with computing after doing a ANOVA on a calculator, and vowed never to do that again.
Sir Ronald Fisher, a genius biologist, invented ANOVA to test fertilizers on corn. Much of statistics has it origin in biology.
The grease in my Zeiss I used in grad school has hardened. Gee its only been 40 years since my PhD. I was told that what a PhD is is a testament that you didn't give up.

You can understand a lot of variation in biostatistics without being a math wiz
That’s so funny that you mention doing ANOVA on a calculator! My Bio prof was telling us a story on how he had to do those very same calculations manually. Math is not a bad subject like people make it out to be, it just takes time and effort. Luckily I have many resources online told help if I ever get stuck on a certain problem.

I definitely agree that a PhD is a statement of tenacity. I can see myself getting there one day. Every day is a step closer. Two years ago I had no clear idea on what I wanted to do with myself in the future. Now that I’ve graduated with my associates it just feels like I’ve gotten at least one step closer to getting my bachelors. I have a long journey ahead but the future seems bright so far.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#17 Post by PeteM » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:37 pm

Not sure where in the Bay Area you are, but I heard just yesterday that UCSC (Santa Cruz) was looking to staff it's new SARS-2 virus testing facility -- rather than the PhD students now volunteering. Plus of this is that the program is being run by a bunch of microbiology researchers - could well make some good contacts over the next few months, while learning a bit about genetic sequencing. It would be high tech grunt work (though most of it robotic/automated) but in an environment full of opportunities for learning.

FWIW, UCSC now has pretty amazing programs (for a small univ.) in bioinformatics, environmental science, and microbiology.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#18 Post by IvaniaAreas » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:12 am

PeteM wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:37 pm
Not sure where in the Bay Area you are, but I heard just yesterday that UCSC (Santa Cruz) was looking to staff it's new SARS-2 virus testing facility -- rather than the PhD students now volunteering. Plus of this is that the program is being run by a bunch of microbiology researchers - could well make some good contacts over the next few months, while learning a bit about genetic sequencing. It would be high tech grunt work (though most of it robotic/automated) but in an environment full of opportunities for learning.

FWIW, UCSC now has pretty amazing programs (for a small univ.) in bioinformatics, environmental science, and microbiology.
UCSC is a nice campus! Unfortunately I live like 4+ hours away haha so I’m not sure I can do a long commute at the moment. Thank you for the suggestion though, really appreciate it!

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#19 Post by PeteM » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:46 am

Where are you located? A couple of other UC campuses have opened up or expanded virus testing labs -- especially the ones with a med school attached -- and might have lab assistant openings. UCSF, Berkeley and Davis come to mind.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#20 Post by IvaniaAreas » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:20 am

PeteM wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:46 am
Where are you located? A couple of other UC campuses have opened up or expanded virus testing labs -- especially the ones with a med school attached -- and might have lab assistant openings. UCSF, Berkeley and Davis come to mind.
Im located closer to Davis, and I'll have to look into what they have going on. I have seen Davis post some lab assistant jobs but I was not sure if it was open to everyone or just Davis students. Ill take any job really as long as I can get experience. Ill have to post an update on my job hunt! :)

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#21 Post by Leitzcycler » Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:32 am

Interesting questions and I am very happy to hear you have passion for science and research. I have always had the feeling I am not very smart. Despite of that I have background in biochemistry and molecular biology and have more than 25 years of experience in lab work. In my career there has been good times and bad times and I finally dropped out of University world some years ago because of limited resources and shrunken research funding. So I am a bit more critical for planning academic research career. The competition for research vacancies and funding is very high and only the most “talented” and productive researchers survive in that game. What especially bothers me is that nowadays researchers are more article-producing machines than human beings with way of life of getting experiences of the amazing world around us. Also the massive output of information and research publications is so stunning that it is very difficult to find a new research topic which offer you something new with easy access. I often get some new idea what to do in research. Then I go to PubMed to search what is already known about that subject. Then I realize that someone just published that a couple of years ago. This is extremely frustrating.

For academic research career the PhD is a must. However, according to my experience, making PhD is not so difficult after you have completed your masters studies. Although it may take much more time depending on your subject. However, you are doing real research then, and it is much more rewarding.

The most difficult things as a researcher are to get funding and tolerate the frustration. According to my experience, everything in research is much more difficult and takes much more time as you might think at the beginning. Many experiments just fail and even a whole research project may fail after a couple of years of hard work. It that happens, at that point you have nothing to publish and will easily drop out of the funding system. This has happened to me too many times with bad economic (and mental) consequences. So choosing a challenging research project is always a risk. Although extremely rewarding if everything goes well. Many of my friends and former colleagues have left university and academic world and had to change their career because there are simply no vacancies nor funding for research. All this is from my limited perspective of course. Maybe you are in much more better situation in US as colleagues visited there have told you have a huge amount of money to put into research projects.

So I would say that despite of difficulties ahead it is important that you listen to your hearth and aim at what is important for you. As you are in the beginning, you have plenty of time to find your place. If you want to become a researcher, I would advise you to carefully select the research project which you take part in. The research you will be involved in should be on one hand something you are really interested in and on the other hand something for which you will get funding in the future.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#22 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:30 am

Here is a slightly different opinion.
Experience with laboratory work, acquaintance with friendly professors, successful teamwork are just fine for a job/career as lab assistant, coworker, or half- or fully administrative job in any field (ecology, microbiology, zoology, botany, biotech...). They can lead to an enjoyable career and overall satisfaction, for example, a good balance between professional and private tasks along the day. Nothing wrong with that.
However, the key ingredients for becoming a successful researcher are totally different. They are curiosity, infinite wish to learn and invest in learning even "boring" and difficult science branches (as mentioned by others above), huge investment of time at the expense of almost everything else (at least for some years), individual thinking, and endeavor towards NEW findings. Funding should not be a major factor in planning a scientific career. Human needs and interests come and go, change all the time, and funding follows suit.

Ecology has one advantage, (again, just my personal opinion) over other science disciplines : most of the world so far has focused on completely ineffective solutions (say, to climate crisis) - for example, recycling of plastic. There is room for fresh, non-conformist thinking.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#23 Post by Leitzcycler » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:29 pm

I completely agree the first part.
huge investment of time at the expense of almost everything else
This is requirement is a result of the competition I described. Personally I feel it is a bad life strategy - even some kind of sickness. There are many other nice and interesting things in life in addition to science or career. And I certainly know researches that both have had success in their career and work eight hours a day.
Funding should not be a major factor in planning a scientific career
Of course it should not be. But in reality you have to go to a research group which have enough money to hire you. To get yourself into a position in which you have enought money to do what you want to do is a long and challencing way. It is impossible for most of us.

Best way to secure your independence in science is to marry a wife who has good and stable income and who is willing to finance your experiments :) This worked for me. However, that strategy doesn't work by investing time to science at the expense of everything else :D

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#24 Post by PeteM » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:20 pm

Perhaps just another perspective. Several friends have had careers in biology, medicine, research, and environmental sciences. One even wandered from being a law prof to environmental law. They all seem to say that a mixture of their own curiosity and determination -- and luck in terms of the opportunities that presented themselves -- shaped their careers.

Now "luck" is a bit like the golfer Arnold Palmer on the topic -- the more he worked at his game, the luckier he seemed to get.

My take is that the best thing for a young person is to put themselves among the best people and most promising situations they can find -- keep their eyes open -- and do excellent work along the way. That way, whatever luck they have, it's likely to have just a bit more reward in terms of finding projects and work they love. This is why (in my mind) a summer lab tech position at a university or a research lab might prove a better stepping stone than, say, a job at Quest Diagnostics.

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Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#25 Post by DrPhoxinus » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:45 pm

I have to agree with the wisdom of Leitzcycler.

As a postdoc I wrote some NSF grants that scored higher than my advisor's, but I didn't have a tenure track job so I didn't get the money.

I took a job in a University computer center for double the money and only a 40 hour week.

I did my research on the side, because I wanted to.

I am dismayed that biology has become obsessed with molecules, and people are forgetting what an intact organism and ecosystem is.

Attached is what I did half a lifetime ago.
I published in a journal called Copeia. I didn't know why it was called that.
Two of the three karyotypes were from fish described by Cope 1869, the last one a federally threatened species described in 1976.
This forum is not for metaphysics but stripped from any religious detritus or cosmic mumbo jumbo there is an informational storage and retrieval beyond our current physics. I was Ed Cope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Drinker_Cope

Be careful what you want out of life because you just might get it
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IvaniaAreas
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:10 am

Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#26 Post by IvaniaAreas » Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:50 pm

Leitzcycler wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:32 am
Interesting questions and I am very happy to hear you have passion for science and research. I have always had the feeling I am not very smart. Despite of that I have background in biochemistry and molecular biology and have more than 25 years of experience in lab work. In my career there has been good times and bad times and I finally dropped out of University world some years ago because of limited resources and shrunken research funding. So I am a bit more critical for planning academic research career. The competition for research vacancies and funding is very high and only the most “talented” and productive researchers survive in that game. What especially bothers me is that nowadays researchers are more article-producing machines than human beings with way of life of getting experiences of the amazing world around us. Also the massive output of information and research publications is so stunning that it is very difficult to find a new research topic which offer you something new with easy access. I often get some new idea what to do in research. Then I go to PubMed to search what is already known about that subject. Then I realize that someone just published that a couple of years ago. This is extremely frustrating.

For academic research career the PhD is a must. However, according to my experience, making PhD is not so difficult after you have completed your masters studies. Although it may take much more time depending on your subject. However, you are doing real research then, and it is much more rewarding.

The most difficult things as a researcher are to get funding and tolerate the frustration. According to my experience, everything in research is much more difficult and takes much more time as you might think at the beginning. Many experiments just fail and even a whole research project may fail after a couple of years of hard work. It that happens, at that point you have nothing to publish and will easily drop out of the funding system. This has happened to me too many times with bad economic (and mental) consequences. So choosing a challenging research project is always a risk. Although extremely rewarding if everything goes well. Many of my friends and former colleagues have left university and academic world and had to change their career because there are simply no vacancies nor funding for research. All this is from my limited perspective of course. Maybe you are in much more better situation in US as colleagues visited there have told you have a huge amount of money to put into research projects.

So I would say that despite of difficulties ahead it is important that you listen to your hearth and aim at what is important for you. As you are in the beginning, you have plenty of time to find your place. If you want to become a researcher, I would advise you to carefully select the research project which you take part in. The research you will be involved in should be on one hand something you are really interested in and on the other hand something for which you will get funding in the future.
I think ultimately the reason I’d want to be involved in research is so I can learn and apply it to personal projects. Ideally I would want to work on environmental restoration, especially in my own community. Working towards sustainability is one of the main reasons I wanted to major in Bio.

IvaniaAreas
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:10 am

Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#27 Post by IvaniaAreas » Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:57 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:30 am
However, the key ingredients for becoming a successful researcher are totally different. They are curiosity, infinite wish to learn and invest in learning even "boring" and difficult science branches (as mentioned by others above), huge investment of time at the expense of almost everything else (at least for some years), individual thinking, and endeavor towards NEW findings.
So far, I’ve taken a wide range of science classes in school. What I’ve realized is how integrated the concepts between sciences are. That’s my favorite part about being a STEM major. I also think that curiosity is overall important in many things in life. I’d like to think of myself as a life long learner and dreamer.

IvaniaAreas
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:10 am

Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#28 Post by IvaniaAreas » Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:08 pm

PeteM wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:20 pm

a mixture of their own curiosity and determination -- and luck in terms of the opportunities that presented themselves -- shaped their careers.

Now "luck" is a bit like the golfer Arnold Palmer on the topic -- the more he worked at his game, the luckier he seemed to get.
I’ve always considered myself lucky. I’m only 24 but all my life I’ve had my health, family, and a roof over my head.

IvaniaAreas
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:10 am

Re: Bio Major (advice on future career and academic goals)

#29 Post by IvaniaAreas » Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:10 pm

DrPhoxinus wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:45 pm
I have to agree with the wisdom of Leitzcycler.

As a postdoc I wrote some NSF grants that scored higher than my advisor's, but I didn't have a tenure track job so I didn't get the money.

I took a job in a University computer center for double the money and only a 40 hour week.

I did my research on the side, because I wanted to.

I am dismayed that biology has become obsessed with molecules, and people are forgetting what an intact organism and ecosystem is.

Attached is what I did half a lifetime ago.
I published in a journal called Copeia. I didn't know why it was called that.
Two of the three karyotypes were from fish described by Cope 1869, the last one a federally threatened species described in 1976.
This forum is not for metaphysics but stripped from any religious detritus or cosmic mumbo jumbo there is an informational storage and retrieval beyond our current physics. I was Ed Cope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Drinker_Cope

Be careful what you want out of life because you just might get it
That’s a great image you attached. Yes I’ve never expected to become rich off being a researcher. Thank you for the wisdom.

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