Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

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LouiseScot
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Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#1 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:44 pm

Have seen some of these on sale at a ridiculously low price - are they likely to be dodgy in some way? Cover slip is specified on the barrel at 0.17.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

BramHuntingNematodes
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#2 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:55 pm

Well get one and try it out. If it is good then you can buy the others to give as Christmas presents to your family this year.
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

LouiseScot
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#3 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:00 pm

BramHuntingNematodes wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:55 pm
Well get one and try it out. If it is good then you can buy the others to give as Christmas presents to your family this year.
It's cheap compared to the normal price but still a lot of money for me! Seller has confirmed it's an MRD00205.
I know occasionally there are some offered which are part of a run that is surplus to requirements. Or maybe there's something amiss with it....
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#4 Post by viktor j nilsson » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:11 pm

Note that it is infinity corrected, so you will not be able to use it on your finite microscope.

LouiseScot
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#5 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:17 pm

viktor j nilsson wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:11 pm
Note that it is infinity corrected, so you will not be able to use it on your finite microscope.
It's ok, I have an infinity system I can use it on. I just don't want to waste my money! It's also being sold as 'DIC N2'. The dic bit is fine - not sure what the 'N2' means?? It isn't marked with anything special on the barrel, according to seller's photo.
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

BramHuntingNematodes
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#6 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:19 pm

The lambda makes me think it's a DIC objective, which is of course fine, but suggests that it commands a premium to a relatively thin market. In times of liquidity constraints becoming binding, perhaps due to an unprecedented global recession in the wake of the farthest-reaching public health crisis in a century, it is not unexpected to see large discounts on this type of item. On the other hand, flim-flams are ever-present, so it would be wise to examine the particular buyer protections afforded in whatever venue you are looking at.
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

LouiseScot
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#7 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:25 pm

BramHuntingNematodes wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:19 pm
The lambda makes me think it's a DIC objective, which is of course fine, but suggests that it commands a premium to a relatively thin market. In times of liquidity constraints becoming binding, perhaps due to an unprecedented global recession in the wake of the farthest-reaching public health crisis in a century, it is not unexpected to see large discounts on this type of item. On the other hand, flim-flams are ever-present, so it would be wise to examine the particular buyer protections afforded in whatever venue you are looking at.
As I understand it, the 'Lambda' is just a special coating - apparently as used on professional dslr lenses.
The 'N2' part - I've no idea!
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

apochronaut
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#8 Post by apochronaut » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:06 pm

LouiseScot wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:17 pm
viktor j nilsson wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:11 pm
Note that it is infinity corrected, so you will not be able to use it on your finite microscope.
It's ok, I have an infinity system I can use it on. I just don't want to waste my money! It's also being sold as 'DIC N2'. The dic bit is fine - not sure what the 'N2' means?? It isn't marked with anything special on the barrel, according to seller's photo.
Louise
Do you have a Nikon infinity corrected microscope? This is an M25 objective to be used in a 200mm reference length microscope.

LouiseScot
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#9 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:09 pm

apochronaut wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:06 pm
LouiseScot wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:17 pm
viktor j nilsson wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:11 pm
Note that it is infinity corrected, so you will not be able to use it on your finite microscope.
It's ok, I have an infinity system I can use it on. I just don't want to waste my money! It's also being sold as 'DIC N2'. The dic bit is fine - not sure what the 'N2' means?? It isn't marked with anything special on the barrel, according to seller's photo.
Louise
Do you have a Nikon infinity corrected microscope? This is an M25 objective to be used in a 200mm reference length microscope.
Yes, I know that. Anyway, I've bought one now. It's either a bargain else I'll be feeling very sorry for myself!
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

charlie g
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#10 Post by charlie g » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:21 pm

I came to this thread very late...hi all. I sense that when you 'drop duckets' for costly optics...it's good to keep to one brand of stand...to 'mix and match' hinders later selling of a cobbled together stand.

One takes many paths with microscopy..if a goal is better resolution and enhanced image capture...well for me a 20X plan-apo makes a wonderful step up in observation sessions. I relish observations of freshly collected specimens when on holiday far from my home bench, far from my work horse stands. So I guess a cobbled stand to lug to a river cottage might make sense..but achromat, or plan-achromat stands at a tent or rural cottage are a treat of vacation..like reading by oil-lamp after dusk.

So for me I suggest picking a brand of stand..and tricking it out with it's brand of costly optics..rather than spending on high performance optics to 'mix and match'... I hope your new optic is of stellar performance, thanks for this thread! charlie guevara, finger lakes/US

PeteM
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#11 Post by PeteM » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:19 pm

It's a stellar objective; likely around $3000 new. Too bad the gene sequencers these came surplus from didn't also have a 40x version . . . Note that the parfocal length is 60mm and (as noted above) the thread 25mm.

There are several ways to make use of this:
- On a proper Nikon infinity stand such as an Eclipse E400 or E600; where it will perform to its full potential. It provides excellent DIC, even with a slightly mismatched PF40 prism.

- On a Leica DM series stand with the same 25mm thread and the same 200mm reference tube length. The stage will need to come down 15mm. They fit DMLS and DMLB. Likely most of the better DM scopes will have room to fit it. The objective looks great on the DM scopes I've tried. I've converted an entire Leica DMLS scope to Nikon 60mm parfocal objectives (using spacers for the odd Leica included) -- just to have this objective on the turret and all objectives parfocal.

- On a 25mm to RMS adapter on other infinity microscopes. With, say, an Olympus BX the magnification will be off (BX has a 180mm reference tube). Depending upon what tube lens and eyepiece corrrections the infinity scope might have, the lens may still perform very well. It won't be parfocal and is probably best used on a scope with a removable nosepiece so it can be used just when one wants a great 20x for digital photos.

LouiseScot
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#12 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:30 pm

PeteM wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:19 pm
It's a stellar objective; likely around $3000 new. Too bad the gene sequencers these came surplus from didn't also have a 40x version . . . Note that the parfocal length is 60mm and (as noted above) the thread 25mm.

There are several ways to make use of this:
- On a proper Nikon infinity stand such as an Eclipse E400 or E600; where it will perform to its full potential. It provides excellent DIC, even with a slightly mismatched PF40 prism.

- On a Leica DM series stand with the same 25mm thread and the same 200mm reference tube length. The stage will need to come down 15mm. They fit DMLS and DMLB. Likely most of the better DM scopes will have room to fit it. The objective looks great on the DM scopes I've tried. I've converted an entire Leica DMLS scope to Nikon 60mm parfocal objectives (using spacers for the odd Leica included) -- just to have this objective on the turret and all objectives parfocal.

- On a 25mm to RMS adapter on other infinity microscopes. With, say, an Olympus BX the magnification will be off (BX has a 180mm reference tube). Depending upon what tube lens and eyepiece corrrections the infinity scope might have, the lens may still perform very well. It won't be parfocal and is probably best used on a scope with a removable nosepiece so it can be used just when one wants a great 20x for digital photos.
Hi
You have one?? They come from a gene sequencer? Tell me more! I don't have DIC, sadly. I do have a 200mm direct projection tube, though :)
Thanks
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#13 Post by viktor j nilsson » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:35 pm

Yes,
Here is a good starting point, and make sure you read the other threads that Pau is linking to in post #6:
https://www.photomacrography.net/forum/ ... 6d9b94653b

The short story is that some of the unlabelled 20x objectives are designed to be used with unusually thick cover slips, but those labeled like a regular Nikon objectives are the real deal - and a real steal.

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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#14 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:45 pm

Well, I'll find out for myself at the end of the week-ish though I'm having a cataract operation next week so my findings might be delayed a bit!
I will post about it when I can!

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

PeteM
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#15 Post by PeteM » Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:57 pm

Louise, sounds like that objective and your cataract operation will arrive just in time for a beautifully clear view of the micro world. Serendipity.

FWIW, I have three of these objectives on various scopes - all with the .17 cover slip markings. One of the scopes will leave, but the most satisfying 200x images I have are all from this objective - and 200x is one of the most useful of all magnifications and usually pretty good in most scopes.

LouiseScot
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#16 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:20 pm

PeteM wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:57 pm
Louise, sounds like that objective and your cataract operation will arrive just in time for a beautifully clear view of the micro world. Serendipity.

FWIW, I have three of these objectives on various scopes - all with the .17 cover slip markings. One of the scopes will leave, but the most satisfying 200x images I have are all from this objective - and 200x is one of the most useful of all magnifications and usually pretty good in most scopes.
Thanks - I hope so! Yes, this appears to have the normal, usual markings including 0.17 for coverslip - plus the extra 'lambda' symbol. I'm guessing they are probably something like £2k (in the UK), normally - I don't know anyone who actually retails them but I imagine they wouldn't be cheap.

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

Scarodactyl
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#17 Post by Scarodactyl » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:32 pm

Can confirm these are world class and one of the beat deals in optics. Only cheap because of a major glut in supply.

LouiseScot
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#18 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:38 pm

Scarodactyl wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:32 pm
Can confirm these are world class and one of the beat deals in optics. Only cheap because of a major glut in supply.
I've probably paid too much then ha ha, but I won't grumble if it's good! A 40x, 60x and 100x version would be nice...

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#19 Post by viktor j nilsson » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:48 pm

How much did you pay? Prices have been dropping, there are a couple on eBay right now for $100. That seller posted 20 or so at the same time a while ago at that price. Before that the going rate was ~$130.

LouiseScot
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#20 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:58 pm

viktor j nilsson wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:48 pm
How much did you pay? Prices have been dropping, there are a couple on eBay right now for $100. That seller posted 20 or so at the same time a while ago at that price. Before that the going rate was ~$130.
I'm in the UK and everything is more expensive here :( I've paid £350 for mine. Other UK sellers are selling them for £400 so I'm not feeling too bad about it. I only came across it by chance and wasn't actively looking for it.
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#21 Post by viktor j nilsson » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:07 pm

eBay global shipping program works pretty well. I just checked, it would cost me $161 (£122) to have one shipped to Sweden, including shipping and taxes.

I don't want to make you feel bad, though. In any other circumstance, £350 would be a steal for such an amazing objective.

LouiseScot
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#22 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:14 pm

viktor j nilsson wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:07 pm
eBay global shipping program works pretty well. I just checked, it would cost me $161 (£122) to have one shipped to Sweden, including shipping and taxes.

I don't want to make you feel bad, though. In any other circumstance, £350 would be a steal for such an amazing objective.
Yeah, if I'd known I could have got it quite a bit cheaper though have to add shipping charges etc. Probably get away without import duty but might have to pay vat. I won't lose sleep :)
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#23 Post by viktor j nilsson » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:24 pm

You won't get any extra charges when a seller ships with eBay's global shipping program - that $161 price includes $30 shipping and $31 import charges. eBay surely keep these pretty high to make a profit on shipping and import charges, but microscope items are often so much cheaper in the US that it can make financial sense to order items from there anyway.

LouiseScot
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#24 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:35 pm

viktor j nilsson wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:24 pm
You won't get any extra charges when a seller ships with eBay's global shipping program - that $161 price includes $30 shipping and $31 import charges. eBay surely keep these pretty high to make a profit on shipping and import charges, but microscope items are often so much cheaper in the US that it can make financial sense to order items from there anyway.
As I say, if I'd known earlier today.... Maybe next time if there are any x40 or higher ones going though it looks like these ex-sequencer objectives are only ever 20x
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

abednego1995
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#25 Post by abednego1995 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:04 pm

Good catch, but I'll add in some more info.
The CFI60 Plan Apo Lambda 20x wasn't used in gene sequencers as far as I know. The latest machines use discrete optics tailored to each machines specific need (i.e. WD, compensation, wavelength characteristics). The brownish barrelled variants of the CFI60 Plan Apo 20x was used by Illumina for some time, but they've gone discrete on their latest. I think the other people have it mixed up with this lens and the Lambda 20x you've fished. The Lambda 20x is a current Nikon item, and is a generation ahead of the brown Plan Apo 20x.

About the markings on the barrel...
Lambda denotes the use of Nikon's subwavelength size crystal coatings on the inner elements, same tech as their N-Crystal coating offered on their photo lenses. DIC indicates it is so-so acceptably strain free for use in differential interference contrast. N2 indicates the use of the N2 condenser side prism when using DIC.

Hope it adds some.

Cheers,
John

LouiseScot
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#26 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:30 pm

abednego1995 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:04 pm
Good catch, but I'll add in some more info.
The CFI60 Plan Apo Lambda 20x wasn't used in gene sequencers as far as I know. The latest machines use discrete optics tailored to each machines specific need (i.e. WD, compensation, wavelength characteristics). The brownish barrelled variants of the CFI60 Plan Apo 20x was used by Illumina for some time, but they've gone discrete on their latest. I think the other people have it mixed up with this lens and the Lambda 20x you've fished. The Lambda 20x is a current Nikon item, and is a generation ahead of the brown Plan Apo 20x.

About the markings on the barrel...
Lambda denotes the use of Nikon's subwavelength size crystal coatings on the inner elements, same tech as their N-Crystal coating offered on their photo lenses. DIC indicates it is so-so acceptably strain free for use in differential interference contrast. N2 indicates the use of the N2 condenser side prism when using DIC.

Hope it adds some.

Cheers,
John
Thanks for the info. I knew about the Lambda but not the N2. DiC and N2 are in the description but not on the barrel. It's a normal, silver barrel according to the photo. If not sequencers, I wonder where these ones have come from? I couldn't actually see any of the $100 ones on ebay uk or ebay.com though they might be there, somewhere.

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

abednego1995
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#27 Post by abednego1995 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:38 pm

Well, I've seen the Lambda 20x in pathology slide scanners but that's a recent application, and I'd doubt it would come with a case. If there are multiple examples, I would suspect a (large) lab closure, or some kind of government surplus. In that case, the intent for procurement would likely be for normal microscope usage.

LouiseScot
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#28 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:43 pm

abednego1995 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:38 pm
Well, I've seen the Lambda 20x in pathology slide scanners but that's a recent application, and I'd doubt it would come with a case. If there are multiple examples, I would suspect a (large) lab closure, or some kind of government surplus. In that case, the intent for procurement would likely be for normal microscope usage.
Oh well, doesn't really matter - just so long as it works properly!
ps the seller has 3 or 4 for sale and is UK based

Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

abednego1995
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#29 Post by abednego1995 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:48 pm

BTW, do you have the URL?
Your description of the listing having Lambda etc.. only in the listing and not on the barrel...is somewhat "concerning"

LouiseScot
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Re: Nikon Plan Apo Lambda 20x - ok??

#30 Post by LouiseScot » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:53 pm

abednego1995 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:48 pm
BTW, do you have the URL?
Your description of the listing having Lambda etc.. only in the listing and not on the barrel...is somewhat "concerning"
No, I didn't say that - it has all the info on the barrel except DIC and N2
Louise
A Nikon CF plan 20x; A Swift 380T; A DIY infinity corrected focus rail system with a 40x/0.65 Olympus Plan, a 10x/0.30 Amscope Plan Fluor, and a 20x/0.75 Nikon Plan Apo

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