What to buy? 'Realux' or Indian eBay mic?

[SteveSteve]

Hi,

Here is a quick question (not necessarily with quick answers!);

Has anyone any experience with 'Realux' mics? I am after a trinocular scope and have one possibility in mind.

The other option is to go for one of the Indian trinocular kits from eBay. There are some with 10x and 20x eyepieces and 10x - 100x (oil) objectives. Has anyone bought one of these binoc/trinoc Indian eBay microscopes before who can give an opinion. With limited funds they look well specified but are they up to the job?

Cheers
Steve

[billbillt]

Hi Steve,
I have never owned an Indian microscope, but what I have read they are on par with the ones from China.. I do have a Chinese made one here.. It performs well... You might look at the ever popular Amscope... They seem to have a good reputation.. I hope this tad of info helps...

[billbillt]

Also I might add, I looked at some of the Realux stands.. They are selling for more that 1500 euros... They are probably made in China anyway.. I think all microscopes now days are made in China.. I know the highly touted "Big Four" have all moved production to China... If it was me, I would buy an Amscope for far less money...

[apochronaut]

One of the problems within the fray of cheap scopes, is that in order to attract buyers, the makers and or distributors often make unreasonable claims about their capability. They know better but the lure of hooking a naive customer is just too great. For centuries, optical science slowly discovered laws governing what lens and illumination systems could and couldn't do. Mostly, improvements in microscope imaging for about the past 50 years or so have been by virtue of improvements in illumination systems; getting the light where it needs to be ,at the right time, in the right quantity and of the right type; with some small gains in the actual optics, because the optics have been close to perfection for many decades.
The established microscope makers, with many years of development and experience have paved the way in developments( Leica alone has over 500 years of company experience to draw on), whereas the Indian or Chinese companies at this point are just copying what has already been done. Their designs, are physically contemporary looking( for what that is worth, because it is irrelevant) but the optics and illumination systems are pretty much the same as has been in place for 50 to 30 years. That said, the optics can be good, within reason. The exception is their adoption of led but they use that because it is cheaper but it is largely unproven. The colour is excessively blue,there is flicker, Chinese leds give no where near the life they claim; often eclipsing in less than a 1000 hours and the image quality for some applications can be bleached and have a skewed colour balance.You won't find too many microscopists who rely on the performance of their instrument, that are using led. They are, at this point, largely a consumer trinket.
The worst thing they do, and this is something the marketers of toy microscopes , such as Tasco and many Japanese companies did in the 60's and 70's is ; they make ludicrous claims of magnification capability. You can see 40-2500x claimed. The funny thing is; I can only get 1350X out of a Spencer Apochromatic system, with a 1.4 N.A. objective and a 1.4 N.A. achromatic condenser!
Of course you can stack lenses to the moon and increase magnification to infinity but the optical laws, with the type of quite ordinary lenses and condensers fitted on those things are real and the most you could get in terms of magnification is 1000x and even then, everything must be just so to get resolution from that. Any further increase in magnification by virtue of 20X eyepieces or whatever introduces what is called empty magnification.
It goes similar to this. You walk into a movie theater and from the back you see a man on the screen wearing a shirt with buttons but you cannot see the holes in the buttons. Easy, solution; walk closer to the screen and then you can see the holes in the buttons, right? Well, that is your 2500X microscope.
The other thing is the build quality. These microscopes are cheap for a reason. There are always going to be weaknesses in any mechanical device and service and backup parts for these things will be trouble. There is a thread started just recently, on this forum: someone with a broken plastic illuminator part on a Chinese inverted microscope and no replacement available. The term old world craftsmanship wasn't coined for no reason. Buy used.

[billbillt]

True... But that was then and this is now... The "Big Four" are now on the same quality as Amscope... There are very few folks on this forum that require a super quality, super resolution, super expensive microscope.. They don't do this for a living.. It is a hobby... An Amscope works very well enough to satisfy a hobby... As far as the LED concerns, replacement ones cost a dollar or less.. They are so inexpensive they are not even considered... Anyway the life span of an LED is still many times the life of an incandescent bulb even in the worse case scenario... Amscope offers great value for the money..

[apochronaut]

The big four only have their entry level microscopes made in China and they tend to charge more for them compared to unknown brands because of the name. So, yes I agree that the entry level scopes are probably on a par, with the cheaper big four microscopes but that is as far as it goes.
Even though many people are amateur microscopists, it often becomes a bug and the desire for better imaging and contrast capability and versatility very often creeps in. Most of the off brand microscopes and even some of the name brand units have limited capability in this regard. A tried and true used instrument, often closer to state of the art than a new Chinese instrument can often be had for pennies on the dollar, have the capability to be upgraded with superb contrast systems and still be perfectly functional decades down the line. Buying into something that can grow with you is always best, even if you don't end up growing or even lose interest. The microscope will have resale value , if in good shape; moreso than an aging Chinese microscope will have , especially if it is of uncertain heritage.
Research and laboratory circumstances, demand that the tools being used be as close to perfect as is possible. They are constantly being replaced in order to take advantage of technological advances, whether they be real or illusionary. The instruments they replace were the best there was , just a few short years ago, not a cheap copy of a 30 year old design, with a fresh coat of paint.

[billbillt]

No.. It is their entire production that is in China..Not just entry level .. Email them and ask.... I know people don't want to hear it, but it is true...

[gekko]

SteveSteve. welcome to the forum. I have my biases, and having bought some measuring tools made in India that were very poorly made and some excellent ones made in China, I would go with what billbillt advised: get an Amscope. I quite agree with apochronaut's views but from a practical point of view, if you want a good microscope at a reasonable price, I would consider buying a new Amscope or similar microscope with a good warranty. Choosing the model among the many offered is enough of a challenge. Looking at the excellent pictures posted on this forum by people who use modern Chinese microscopes (for example, JimT, Vasselle are two that quickly come to mind) convinces me that those microscopes are capable of giving excellent results. My 2 cents' worth.

[billbillt]

Very true.... Amscope has worked at developing a great reputation.... Amscope stands are used worldwide in all settings.. From hobby to clinical research... I live next door to a large city that has a sales office for all of the big 4... All of this talk about China microscopes has been covered in depth on other forums... A few months ago I called each of the big 4 sales office and asked about the China connection... I was told by ALL FOUR that their ENTIRE production is in China... I know no one wants to hear that their favorite German or Japanese scope is now made there, but it is so... The times, they are a changing... This has been common knowledge for a while now, even though there a some people who refuse to believe it... This is why the older big 4 stands are selling for huge prices now... No more pennies on the dollar... Everyone wants an older microscope made in their favorite country not China...

[SteveSteve]

Thanks guys that is something to think about.

I was looking for a trinocular mic and the Amscope range on eBay seems to start at about £340 for the T340B but are these available in the UK or just as imports?

Cheers
Steve

[gekko]

I said above, "I have my biases, and having bought some measuring tools made in India that were very poorly made and some excellent ones made in China". I want to emphasize that Indian microscope may be superb, but I've not heard feedback or seen images from anyone who uses them, but there are excellent images on this forum and elsewhere from people using Chinese micrscopes. Of course, not all Chinese microscopes are of the same quality.
Regarding Chinese made Zeiss, Olympus, Nikon microscopes: those companies set their own standards (machanical and optical), so I don't think where they are made makes much difference, as they have to comply with those standards. On the other hand, the superb mechanical design and machining of old has to give way to more molded, plastics, cheaper manufacturing method in order to compete. My 2 cents' worth.

[The QCC]

SteveSteve

I do not recommend buying from India if your shipping address is outside the Indian sub-continent.
The quality of Indian microscopes is quite good, but the shipping containers are totally inadequate.
I purchased a polarizing microscope from India via eBay. When the microscope arrived it was in multiple loose pieces. The vendor had bolted the microscope in its wooden case. When the shipper, somewhere along the route, dropped it the heavy weight went right through the wooden case.

If you want a good buy on a trinocular microscope made by Nikon, in China, contact any of the many on-line sellers of microscope from China.
Nikon CPD 43 E100T microscope
I purchased a Labomed LB-592 from China for less than half the price in North America.

[apochronaut]

Very true.... Amscope has worked at developing a great reputation.... Amscope stands are used worldwide in all settings.. From hobby to clinical research... I live next door to a large city that has a sales office for all of the big 4... All of this talk about China microscopes has been covered in depth on other forums... A few months ago I called each of the big 4 sales office and asked about the China connection... I was told by ALL FOUR that their ENTIRE production is in China... I know no one wants to hear that their favorite German or Japanese scope is now made there, but it is so... The times, they are a changing... This has been common knowledge for a while now, even though there a some people who refuse to believe it... This is why the older big 4 stands are selling for huge prices now... No more pennies on the dollar... Everyone wants an older microscope made in their favorite country not China...

Of course, every company is looking to produce the best they can as cheap as they can. In some cases , there may be some product development in Asia( there are plants in Singapore,Taiwan and Korea too) but some of the systems (the Chinese Zeiss in particular) are stencil microscopes. An almost identical system can be had from Motic for much less. No doubt , more and more production will shift there but most of the Chinese made microscopes are out of the sphere of influence of the big four engineering elite and are not necessarily going to show any family resemblance to them. I look at the objectives and microscopes for sale and I see a great deal of copying.
The idea that Zeiss or Leica or Nikon or Olympus are doing all there production in China is pretty far fetched. Just because someone who works for them says that, then how does one explain this quote from the Leica website:
Leica Microsystems has seven major plants and product development sites located in Wetzlar and Mannheim (Germany), Vienna (Austria), Heerbrugg (Switzerland), Cambridge (UK), Shanghai (China), and Singapore. The company is represented in over 100 countries, has sales and service organizations in 20 countries, and an international network of distribution partners. Its headquarters are located in Wetzlar, Germany. Leica Microsystems is part of Danaher.
Note that these are not in alphabetical order. They are in order of the relative importance to the company and where the most employees are and development and manufacturing is taking place. Wetzlar , Mannheim,Vienna( Reichert),Heerbrugg(Wild),Cambridge( Cooke,Baker,Smith,Vickers), Shanghai and Singapore.
There are a lot of people working for a lot of companies who are poorly informed and or just plain lousy at their jobs.

[gekko]

Thanks guys that is something to think about.
I was looking for a trinocular mic and the Amscope range on eBay seems to start at about £340 for the T340B but are these available in the UK or just as imports?
Cheers
Steve

Are you located in Britain? If so, I would seriously consider getting a microscope from Brunel (http://www.brunelmicroscopessecure.co.u ... cular.html ). As far as I know they have an excellent reputation and are helpful. At least one member of this forum has bought microscopes and other items from them and the images that he posted are excellent.

[SteveSteve]

I definitely need to sell more 'stuff' on eBay. Having a clear out and trying to raise enough for a decent instrument!

Cheers
Steve

[billbillt]

Believe what you wish.... As I said some people refuse to hear it...

[The QCC]

Are these Nikon Eclipse microscopes?

Made in China.

Nikon.jpg (29.53 KiB) Viewed 8605 times

[billbillt]

They certainly look like it to me..

[apochronaut]

I did a quick scan of likely candidates in the U.K. and there is a Baker Interference microscope on ebay.U.K. for L 345.00. Has an original mahogany case, 6 objectives, manuals. If I lived in the U.K. , I would buy it in an instant
Those are a version of D.I.C. but perfectly convertible for bright field too. Baker optics are first rate.
It has 8X eyepieces. Although Baker made terrific lenses( still do because it became Vickers and Cooke), the field is a little tight. The corrections , in my experience are the same as American Optical, so a pair of very cheap AO 176, 180 or even 181 eyepieces should bring the field out to modern standards. There also may be others. Baker made a very nice set of W.F. 10X compens too and those would be great.
If I can help at all, just p.m. me.