Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

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henryr
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Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#1 Post by henryr » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:27 pm

This question is related to the trinoc head 512/738, with 42mm dovetail, that I used to convert my 170mm TL dialux to 160mm TL. I first posted about that conversion in Aug.. 2015. Now I want to clean the internal optics and an exploded view would be helpful. I've spent many hours, reading many of the Leitz documents on eatrht2geologists.net and microscopy-uk.org and never even found the 512/738 listed anywhere. Is there a parts list, diagram or exploded view that would help in disassembly?

Thanks,
henryr

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#2 Post by henryr » Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:47 pm

Where did Leitz hide its service manuals? There seems loads of info on AO, olympus and Nikon with schematics ect.. Did Leitz produce similar documents?

MichaelG.
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#3 Post by MichaelG. » Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:59 pm

.

I think this page probably explains the situation: http://www.frankshospitalworkshop.com/e ... nuals.html

“ Download prohibited by Leica. Support is not desired. ”

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#4 Post by henryr » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:34 pm

I found Frankshospitalworkshop page today and only the Leica stuff was listed as Download prohibited by Leica. Support is not desired. The Leitz stuff had no such caveat yet seems unaccessible. So how do we get Leitz service info?

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#5 Post by henryr » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:48 pm

I spent some time on Frankshospitalworkshop.com and it seems a very noble, humanitarian effort to bring much needed information to underdeveloped countries in dire need of health information.

MichaelG.
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#6 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:16 am

henryr wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:34 pm
The Leitz stuff had no such caveat yet seems unaccessible. So how do we get Leitz service info?
.

I think Leica has made him pull everything :(

MichaelG.

Edit: Trawling through this lot is probably your best chance of finding anything:
http://microscope.database.free.fr/Welcome.html
Last edited by MichaelG. on Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Too many 'projects'

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#7 Post by henryr » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:25 am

What happened to " once its on the web its there forever? It must be somewhere.

MichaelG.
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#8 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:27 am

henryr wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:25 am
What happened to " once its on the web its there forever? It must be somewhere.
You tell me ...

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#9 Post by henryr » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:11 am

I have no answer beside "I'm dumbfounded".

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#10 Post by henryr » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:22 am

But I'm surprised that there are no guides or instructions on disassembly of a Leitz trinocular head. I'd like to believe that this has been done and hope someone would share the steps.

einman
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#11 Post by einman » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:10 am

Leica, previously Leitz among others, issued a cease and desist, insisting the material was copyrighted. Which no doubt it was. However, by removing these old documents they hope to hasten the older scopes' demise and thus increase current sales. I made my opinion quite clear to them when they made this move.

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#12 Post by henryr » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:30 am

So, considering the docs are truly not accessible, can someone tell me how to get access to the dovetails on my Leitz 512/738 trinoc head. The movement is very stiff like that of my AO series 10 trinoc head. The AO head now works great after using hoppes #9 gun oil, but I don't want to just inject the oil into the Leitz head.

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#13 Post by henryr » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:27 am

Am I the only person to have had a problem with a leitz trinoc head?

microb
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#14 Post by microb » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:02 pm

henryr wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:27 am
Am I the only person to have had a problem with a leitz trinoc head?
Do you have the one with the knob on top or the pull on the side? I have the former with my Leica DMIL and a binocular.

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#15 Post by henryr » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:19 pm

Mine has the knob on top with three arrow headed symbols representing the direction and distribution of the image. And I've spent hours looking at pdfs on the microscope.database.free. It a great source of info but nothing specific on trinoc heads.

D0c
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#16 Post by D0c » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:59 pm

Hi Henry

Unfortunately I cannot help you but you might be able to help me.

I have a Leitz SM-Lux like the one in the link and I want a trinocualr head for it. With all the searching you have done do you know which trinocular heads fit this type of microscope, so I know which ones to look for on e-bay.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/154534235 ... datetaken/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/154534235 ... datetaken/

Thanks for your help.
Leitz SM-Lux

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#17 Post by henryr » Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:02 pm

One thing I learned in 2015 was that heads for 170mm tube length scopes have a 43mm diameter dovetail. The following info was provided to me in 2015. So you just need to verify that your SM-lux is a 170mm tube length scope.

There were 4 different dovetails for the microscope head, cited after http://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index.php?topic=4406.0:

41 mm or old Labolux/Laborlux/Dialux/SM Tube 170 mm, eyepiece parfocal length 18 mm
43 mm for Ortholux2/Dialux/HM-Lux/SM-Lux/Diavert 170 mm, eyepiece parfocal length 18 mm
42 mm for new Laborlux/Dialux/Diaplan/Ergoplan/Aristoplan 160 mm, eyepiece parfocal length 10 mm
50 mm for Orthoplan, 170 mm, eyepiece parfocal length 18 mm, eyepiece diameter 30 mm

The trinocular heads with 42 mm and 43 mm look quite similar, both exists in black and gray versions. Differences are
a) dovetail diameter 42 vs 43 mm
b) length of the two eyepiece-holding tubes; the heads with 43 mm dovetail have eyepiece tubes that are 8 mm longer to accomodate the longer eyepieces of the 170 mm tube length optics.
http://www.mikroskopie-forum.de/index.p ... 1#msg28931

The beamsplitter in the trinocular heads that I know have two settings 100:0 (visual:photo) and 20:80 (visual:photo). So there is always a prism in the photo optical path. There are also some tubes with 3 settings but again a prism remains. You would have to look through the Leitz manuals to see if 0:100 heads were ever made.

There are special tubes (phototubes) that fit into the 38 mm photoport and hold the Leitz eyepieces. They are available for 170 mm or 160 mm tube length and with 23.2 or 30 mm eyepiece diameters.
!60mm tube length scopes have a 42mm diameter dovetail. There are a number of user manuals, on the web, for the SM-lux 170mm tube length model.

PeteM
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#18 Post by PeteM » Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:21 pm

One of the useful things about the older heads (from almost all the better makers) is that they were assembled with screws, rather than snap fits or adhesives as with some newer heads. Which means that if you start from the outside, with some notion of how it might have gone together, start removing screws and carefully make notes or photos on your way in (so you can get it back together) -- you can almost surely find your way inside to clean off and replace hardened grease.

Worth it? If the microscope is dedicated to a single user, and the interpupillary adjustment is merely stiff, it could make sense to apply just a bit of solvent, modest heat, maybe later a tiny drop of oil to wick in at obvious joints to get it free enough to set it where it needs to be.

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#19 Post by henryr » Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:00 pm

So I'm still looking for a diagram of my trinoc head. Has anyone disassembled a head similar to mine?
Attachments
Leitz Dialux head5.JPG
Leitz Dialux head5.JPG (78.56 KiB) Viewed 1495 times
Leitz Dialux head4.JPG
Leitz Dialux head4.JPG (67.22 KiB) Viewed 1495 times
Leitz Dialux head2.JPG
Leitz Dialux head2.JPG (59.1 KiB) Viewed 1495 times
Leitz Dialux head1.JPG
Leitz Dialux head1.JPG (59.3 KiB) Viewed 1495 times

microb
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#20 Post by microb » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:16 pm

[Edit here: I thought this was a thread where someone had said the prism slider was rough and that they didn't know how to open the out case. So I guess I'm not answering the question, but I'll leave the pictures up incase that other person finds it.]

Here’s access to see the prism slider. Maybe you can see what’s binding on your setup:
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5.JPG
5.JPG (92.38 KiB) Viewed 1442 times

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#21 Post by henryr » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:19 pm

Thanks so much for the photos. The knob, on top near the back that rotates the belt, works great on my head. What I would really like to see are the steps required to remove the interpupillary slides. I want to remove them so I can clean and relube them and the surfaces they slide against.

microb
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#22 Post by microb » Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:00 am

There are some dovetails in the plane that mounts the eyepieces, the expander yoke hinged in the center piece, and the rollers on the side of the yoke's hinge. Interesting design for the expander "yoke" movement:
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5.JPG
5.JPG (93.67 KiB) Viewed 1409 times

microb
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#23 Post by microb » Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:00 am

More pictures:
Attachments
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6.JPG (109.23 KiB) Viewed 1409 times
7.JPG
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8.JPG
8.JPG (91 KiB) Viewed 1409 times

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#24 Post by henryr » Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:22 am

Thanks so much. If you can tell me how you were able to remove the front section, with eyepiece tubes, interpupillary slides and front frame, shown in the 1st photo, I believe you have provided the info I need to disassemble the head.

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#25 Post by henryr » Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:57 am

Thanks so much. Your replies and photos have provided the much needed info to allow me to disassemble my head with confidence.
There is only one difference i see between the heads. Mine has a metal cover plate between the right and left slides, that is attached to and moves with the right side slide. It is attached with three small screws. Yours has just the two slides. Would that difference change the disassembly steps?
Attachments
Leitz Dialux head3.JPG
Leitz Dialux head3.JPG (77.44 KiB) Viewed 1398 times

microb
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#26 Post by microb » Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:30 am

henryr wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:57 am
Thanks so much. Your replies and photos have provided the much needed info to allow me to disassemble my head with confidence.
There is only one difference i see between the heads. Mine has a metal cover plate between the right and left slides, that is attached to and moves with the right side slide. It is attached with three small screws. Yours has just the two slides. Would that difference change the disassembly steps?
I don't have enough info, but i hope you got it opened.

henryr
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#27 Post by henryr » Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:39 pm

Thanks again but I would still like to know what screws were removed to remove the front section, with eyepiece tubes, interpupillary slides and front frame, shown in the 1st photo.

henryr
Posts: 182
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Re: Leitz trinoc head 42mm 512/738 question

#28 Post by henryr » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:03 pm

My head only has two screws, on top, near the front, four screws on the bottom cover and four screws inside and at the bottom of the photo tube.

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