MPLANFL, LMPLANFL vs NEOSPLAN, MSPLAN

[fsittony]

Hi,

How about the UIS, UIS2 objectives say MPLANFL, LMPLANFL comparing to the old ones NEOSPLAN, MSPLAN? NA is about the same.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254814756344?h ... SwFahf4Zk-
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133906026124?h ... SwVI5ha3lk

Are they really much better, are there any pictures for reference? The price is several times higher already...

What about Nikon's LU PLAN FLUOR, TU PLAN FLUOR? Are they even better than Olympus?
Problem is the thread diameter is M27, is it possible to install them on BH2's noise piece?

Thanks.
Tony

[smollerthings]

Hi Tony,

You can't use the UIS (universal infinity system) objectives on the BH2 which is a 160 mm system.

[fsittony]

Hi Tony,

You can't use the UIS (universal infinity system) objectives on the BH2 which is a 160 mm system.

Oh sorry I didn't mention that, I set up the EPI lighting system, which can use infinte objectives now.

[smollerthings]

Oh? Interesting. So you can switch between both? Is there a tube lens you can take out or something?

[fsittony]

Ye, you would need to install the UMA vertical illuminator on the neck which changes the tube length from 160 to infinite, and this is mainly for reflected light and metallurgical use.
Tony

[Gatorengineer64]

I use infinity optics on my old Zeiss 160 all the time with great results both a zeiss infinity Neofluar, and the famous APO Nikon 20x. I use them for two reasons, one because I have them and two because they put up a lot better image than the Vintage Zeiss Neofluars that they the replaced. Also Vintage B&L infinity optics also work, but I prefer the zeiss Neofluars to them.

I am sure a very trained critical observer would find fourth degree spherical chromaticism or some other such defect, but for me they work. YMMV.

[Scarodactyl]

The newer Olympus fluorite objectives probably perform a bit better than the neo splans (I have only tried the neo splans in particular). I would say the neo splans are very capable objectives, more like fluorites than achromats from my recollection, but they are somewhat limited by the system they are in. With my olympus Mplanfl 50x objective I can put the image from the objective directly onto my aps-c camera sensor and use the large well corrected image circle--with a neo splan if you want to take photos you need to use an nfk photo eyepiece to apply final corrections to the image before it reaches the camera, which enlarges and crops the image at the same time. For observation you can use olympus superwide eyepieces and see an enormous well corrected image, they just didn't design a way to put that whole image onto your camera. If taking photos isn't your main concern then you might find the newer objectives a lot less appealing from a cost/benefit angle.

Nikon lu/tu fluors won't fit on a bh2. Their thread (m25, m32 foe the bd version) is too big but more importantly they're too long (60mm vs 45mm system). They perform well but the tu plan fluor I tried was not really better than my olympus mplanfl from what I could tell. Older design Nikon CF Plan infinity objectives do fit and work perfectly--there is a 50x/0.95 CF Plan apo which is particularly nice but I haven't troed others in the series.

One note is the tube lens in the bh2-uma seems to not be neutral like a modern olympus tube lens, at least the one I had wasn't. You might find newer Olympus objectives underperform in the extreme corners on it vs the neo splans designed for it.

[PeteM]

The infinity systems used to adapt the BH2 series to epi objectives are typically marked "f=180" on the objectives and intermediate pieces. They are designed to put a tube lens in the adapter and use a finite head with correcting "K" eyepieces.

The BX series infinity systems used with the BX series and UIS objectives are just marked "infinity." They are designed to use an infinite head and essentially neutral eyepieces.

While you get can usable images interchanging objectives, the corrections are different and you won't get the best image. Better to stay with the right parts than imagine, say, that a couple MPlanFl objectives on the older system will be an upgrade.

To the eye, the "f=180" objectives might look fine on a BX system. For photos, you'd likely see the mismatch.

I don't have any information or experience to quantify the increase in quality in moving from the older epi to the newer epi systems. My impression is that it is small - maybe better coatings, more contrast, and likely a deeper view into the UV and infrared ranges. However, it's pretty easy to quantify the difference in price -- and for most hobbyists that settles the question in favor of NeoSPlan and MSPlan objectives and heads.

[fsittony]

I use infinity optics on my old Zeiss 160 all the time with great results both a zeiss infinity Neofluar, and the famous APO Nikon 20x. I use them for two reasons, one because I have them and two because they put up a lot better image than the Vintage Zeiss Neofluars that they the replaced. Also Vintage B&L infinity optics also work, but I prefer the zeiss Neofluars to them.

I am sure a very trained critical observer would find fourth degree spherical chromaticism or some other such defect, but for me they work. YMMV.

It's nice to have infinite objectives work on 160 system. How do you install them, do you use the infinity noisepiece? How about the tube length, do you change it to 200mm for infinity?
Tony

[fsittony]

The newer Olympus fluorite objectives probably perform a bit better than the neo splans (I have only tried the neo splans in particular). I would say the neo splans are very capable objectives, more like fluorites than achromats from my recollection, but they are somewhat limited by the system they are in. With my olympus Mplanfl 50x objective I can put the image from the objective directly onto my aps-c camera sensor and use the large well corrected image circle--with a neo splan if you want to take photos you need to use an nfk photo eyepiece to apply final corrections to the image before it reaches the camera, which enlarges and crops the image at the same time. For observation you can use olympus superwide eyepieces and see an enormous well corrected image, they just didn't design a way to put that whole image onto your camera. If taking photos isn't your main concern then you might find the newer objectives a lot less appealing from a cost/benefit angle.

Nikon lu/tu fluors won't fit on a bh2. Their thread (m25, m32 foe the bd version) is too big but more importantly they're too long (60mm vs 45mm system). They perform well but the tu plan fluor I tried was not really better than my olympus mplanfl from what I could tell. Older design Nikon CF Plan infinity objectives do fit and work perfectly--there is a 50x/0.95 CF Plan apo which is particularly nice but I haven't troed others in the series.

One note is the tube lens in the bh2-uma seems to not be neutral like a modern olympus tube lens, at least the one I had wasn't. You might find newer Olympus objectives underperform in the extreme corners on it vs the neo splans designed for it.

I'm mainly working on the photo/video from the stand. Seems UIS are UIS2 objectives provide a wider image circle than finite objectives, that's convenient if an photo eyepiece is not need anymore. It's good to know the Olympus mplanfl works well. What is the working distance of Nikon CF Plan Apo? NA 0.95 is quite high. I wonder such objectives would have certain working situation say for flat specimen right? I do hit the specimen some time on trasmitted light with 40x and 100x, too close...

The tube lens seems to be the key issue here. As the BH2 EPI infinity system seems to be quite different from the infinity system nowadays.
Tony

[fsittony]

The infinity systems used to adapt the BH2 series to epi objectives are typically marked "f=180" on the objectives and intermediate pieces. They are designed to put a tube lens in the adapter and use a finite head with correcting "K" eyepieces.

The BX series infinity systems used with the BX series and UIS objectives are just marked "infinity." They are designed to use an infinite head and essentially neutral eyepieces.

While you get can usable images interchanging objectives, the corrections are different and you won't get the best image. Better to stay with the right parts than imagine, say, that a couple MPlanFl objectives on the older system will be an upgrade.

To the eye, the "f=180" objectives might look fine on a BX system. For photos, you'd likely see the mismatch.

I don't have any information or experience to quantify the increase in quality in moving from the older epi to the newer epi systems. My impression is that it is small - maybe better coatings, more contrast, and likely a deeper view into the UV and infrared ranges. However, it's pretty easy to quantify the difference in price -- and for most hobbyists that settles the question in favor of NeoSPlan and MSPlan objectives and heads.

What does f=180 mean, is it the focal length as same as the tube length? The infinity objectives normally have focal length of 200mm which are totally differently from NEOPLAN MSPLAN then.
How about adding the tube length to 200mm, will the tube lens create a lot problem then?
That's right it seems not that simple to just upgrade the objectives. Mismatch will be even worse.

Thanks very much all.
Tony

[Scarodactyl]

It'a not that the newer objectives have a bigger image circle per se. Both are specced for a wide 26.5mm. Thr issue is that thr BH2 system requires essential correcrions from the eyepieces, and while they made viewing eyepieces that correct out to that full image circle they didn't make a photo eyepieces that did that. In theory you could put a lens focused to above a superwide viewing eyepiece but the logistics would be a bit of a pain and the results would probably not be as good.
The 50x/0.95 apo has a working distance of 0.36mm--very hard to light from the side but excellent for coaxial illumination.
180mm is the focal length of the tube lens but that is just the focal length that will give the rated magnification. The nikon cf objectives are rated for a 200mm tube lens but they will perform fine on a 180mm tube lens, just at a 10% lower than rated magnification.

[fsittony]

I used to use a lot Nikon objectives on BH2 with Nikon PL CF eyepiece. Regarding the EPI, if I have to use NEO SPLAN and MSPLAN objectives, it's better move back to use NFK eyepiece instead. Maybe the UIS LMPLANFL will still work fine with Nikon's PL CF eyepiece. I wonder the eyepiece for UIS UIS2 would be the similar type as Nikon's? They don't need any correction for the objectives but only magnification rate.

Sounds like the focal length wouldn't create too much trouble but just the magnificaion rate? Anyway, maybe I will try to see if the new infinity objectives can work on BH2 EPI.

Have you compared Nikon CF to Olympus Neosplan? For transmitted light, I prefer Nikon as they have more contast than Olympus.

[Scarodactyl]

I haven't done a head to head, but my impression of Nikon's finite bd plan objectives was that they were very slightly less well corrected than the neo splans (more axial chromatic aberration), but the infinity CF plans are a newer design.

[fsittony]

I heard the BD PLAN is good for it's image quality on such price. But cannot test them on BH2 as they are for 210mm.
Regarding the intinity CF PLAN, I'm interested in them, but can only install the brightfield version. The BD version is m27, cannot find m27-rms/m26 adapters.
Tony

[Scarodactyl]

I'm not sure how well they'd work in darkfield even if you could get adapters--I'm guessing the exact position of the shell is important so you'd need the matching nosepiece and illuminator. I haven't tried it myself though.

[fsittony]

The light might be blocked to some extent for Darkfield. Will try it if any chance.

[75RR]

I use infinity optics on my old Zeiss 160 all the time with great results both a zeiss infinity Neofluar, and the famous APO Nikon 20x. I use them for two reasons, one because I have them and two because they put up a lot better image than the Vintage Zeiss Neofluars that they the replaced. Also Vintage B&L infinity optics also work, but I prefer the zeiss Neofluars to them.

I am sure a very trained critical observer would find fourth degree spherical chromaticism or some other such defect, but for me they work. YMMV.

It's nice to have infinite objectives work on 160 system. How do you install them, do you use the infinity noisepiece? How about the tube length, do you change it to 200mm for infinity?
Tony

Link to a previous thread on topic

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13916&p