Hi
I didn't find Olympus BH2 DIC components. Thus I decided Leica DM 2000.
I think to set up DIC system on Leica DM 2000 new. It includes U-CA condenser and microscope base components. It doesn't include DIC prisms and objectives. I will buy them as second hand or used later. I am curiosity that are Leitz objectives compatible with Leica DM 2000. If it is possible, could you explain compatibility or alternatif objectives?
How is Leica DM 2000 microscope for DIC?
best regards
leica dm 2000 with DIC objective compatiblity
Re: leica dm 2000 with DIC objective compatiblity
Leica's DM series provides superb DIC - strong contrast and a very nice pseudo-3D effect.
The type N objectives have wider fields than the less expensive C Plan and Hi Plan versions. The Plan Fluotar fluorite objectives are the sweet spot IMO for DIC in terms of $$$ versus image quality. The one exception in my mind is the 63x Plan Apo oil 1.3na objective - which is spectacular and priced accordingly.
Leica, like Zeiss, is also somewhat unique at offering DIC below 10x objective spec.
You may, however, find as much difficulty sourcing Leica prisms as with BH2. The better Leica objectives also tend to be pricey. The prisms do show up, though, so you'll eventually be able to sort this out.
Most Leica objectives will be marked with a letter (A, B, C, D, E are most common for upright stands) in addition to the usual information. That designates the upper sliding prism you'll need for the best DIC with that objective. There are also B1, D1, etc. versions that trade resolution and DIC effect, like some other makers.
A "D" prism and matching objectives are probably the best upper prism to begin with since there are objectives ranging from 20x on up that will work with it.
You'll also need a set of compatible prisms in your condenser. Those are marked K1, K2, K3, K4, etc. You'll want to inventory what you have and find a chart of which upper and lower prisms support which objectives if you need to search for others.
Most Leitz-branded objectives won't work well. The most common will be finite - which you don't want. There are some infinite Leitz objectives, typically with a "*" that apparently have a predictable backplane and were compatible with early DIC systems - likely "Delta" era optics rather than the more recent "HC" and "HCX".
Many Leica scopes, such as the DMLB and DMR came in both versions - first Delta optics, then an HC version that is somewhat optically incompatible. You generally want Delta-era objectives on a Delta-era head and Delta-era eyepieces, and the same for HC-era optics. Your scope is from the HC era and (I believe) recent ones made in China. Be sure it has the opening for a DIC slider - I don't recall which of the DM series made in China is the first to offer that. The older 2000 series did, not sure about the China-made ones.
The most common Leitz infinite objectives I've seen have been designed for no cover slip viewing. If you stumble on one, you might try it up to about 20x objective magnification. If not spec'd for cover slip use (".17") then the image quality will degrade noticeably if used with a cover slip with, say, a 40x or higher objective.
Leica still does some corrections in the tube lens and eyepieces. Even so, you might find some generic infinite objectives that happen to work with Leica DIC prisms and you find acceptable in terms of aberrations. Meiji is the only option I know with the same 200mm reference tube length and DIN (45mm) parfocality. You'd need m25 to RMS adapters and still have some slight issues with corrections.
Nikon Eclipse objectives are the same 25mm thread as Leica, but 15mm longer.
You could try (I'd borrow rather than buy) Olympus or generic 180mm reference tube length objectives and decide if you were happy with the corrections. The magnifications would be off but you might find one of these (on an RMS to M25 adapter) acceptable while waiting for a Leica version to show up.
Getting a camera hooked up to Leica while preserving corrections is also a bit of a hassle. Not only do you need to watch the "Delta" versus "HC" optics versions (later microscopes, like yours, are HC) - you'll also need a hard-to-find Leica-corrected relay lens and a camera with a suitable image circle.
Make your way through this optical gauntlet, and you'll likely be delighted. BH2 DIC is wonderful. IMO Leica even better in a properly matched system.
The type N objectives have wider fields than the less expensive C Plan and Hi Plan versions. The Plan Fluotar fluorite objectives are the sweet spot IMO for DIC in terms of $$$ versus image quality. The one exception in my mind is the 63x Plan Apo oil 1.3na objective - which is spectacular and priced accordingly.
Leica, like Zeiss, is also somewhat unique at offering DIC below 10x objective spec.
You may, however, find as much difficulty sourcing Leica prisms as with BH2. The better Leica objectives also tend to be pricey. The prisms do show up, though, so you'll eventually be able to sort this out.
Most Leica objectives will be marked with a letter (A, B, C, D, E are most common for upright stands) in addition to the usual information. That designates the upper sliding prism you'll need for the best DIC with that objective. There are also B1, D1, etc. versions that trade resolution and DIC effect, like some other makers.
A "D" prism and matching objectives are probably the best upper prism to begin with since there are objectives ranging from 20x on up that will work with it.
You'll also need a set of compatible prisms in your condenser. Those are marked K1, K2, K3, K4, etc. You'll want to inventory what you have and find a chart of which upper and lower prisms support which objectives if you need to search for others.
Most Leitz-branded objectives won't work well. The most common will be finite - which you don't want. There are some infinite Leitz objectives, typically with a "*" that apparently have a predictable backplane and were compatible with early DIC systems - likely "Delta" era optics rather than the more recent "HC" and "HCX".
Many Leica scopes, such as the DMLB and DMR came in both versions - first Delta optics, then an HC version that is somewhat optically incompatible. You generally want Delta-era objectives on a Delta-era head and Delta-era eyepieces, and the same for HC-era optics. Your scope is from the HC era and (I believe) recent ones made in China. Be sure it has the opening for a DIC slider - I don't recall which of the DM series made in China is the first to offer that. The older 2000 series did, not sure about the China-made ones.
The most common Leitz infinite objectives I've seen have been designed for no cover slip viewing. If you stumble on one, you might try it up to about 20x objective magnification. If not spec'd for cover slip use (".17") then the image quality will degrade noticeably if used with a cover slip with, say, a 40x or higher objective.
Leica still does some corrections in the tube lens and eyepieces. Even so, you might find some generic infinite objectives that happen to work with Leica DIC prisms and you find acceptable in terms of aberrations. Meiji is the only option I know with the same 200mm reference tube length and DIN (45mm) parfocality. You'd need m25 to RMS adapters and still have some slight issues with corrections.
Nikon Eclipse objectives are the same 25mm thread as Leica, but 15mm longer.
You could try (I'd borrow rather than buy) Olympus or generic 180mm reference tube length objectives and decide if you were happy with the corrections. The magnifications would be off but you might find one of these (on an RMS to M25 adapter) acceptable while waiting for a Leica version to show up.
Getting a camera hooked up to Leica while preserving corrections is also a bit of a hassle. Not only do you need to watch the "Delta" versus "HC" optics versions (later microscopes, like yours, are HC) - you'll also need a hard-to-find Leica-corrected relay lens and a camera with a suitable image circle.
Make your way through this optical gauntlet, and you'll likely be delighted. BH2 DIC is wonderful. IMO Leica even better in a properly matched system.
Re: leica dm 2000 with DIC objective compatiblity
PeteM, thanks for the detailed Leica DIC information. I'll see if I can find that document that Leica produced with a detailed matrix of the Condenser prisms and objective prisms that were used for the Delta the HC vintage objectives.
Point of reference, if the objective is Leitz branded and infinity corrected, it is most likely a 250mm reference focal length and and as you pointed out, not corrected for cover glass as on Incident light application.
Also you made a valuable point, it stating in order to get the best results, it is important to match the optical components as they were designed. Yes you can get results from a mix and match component setup, but not nearly as good as a match system would provide.
Point of reference, if the objective is Leitz branded and infinity corrected, it is most likely a 250mm reference focal length and and as you pointed out, not corrected for cover glass as on Incident light application.
Also you made a valuable point, it stating in order to get the best results, it is important to match the optical components as they were designed. Yes you can get results from a mix and match component setup, but not nearly as good as a match system would provide.
Re: leica dm 2000 with DIC objective compatiblity
I am not sure how to put an attachment to the forum. I have an excel spreadsheet that offers details on the objective prism and condenser prism for the HC and HCX optics that were available in 2015 Can anyone suggest the best way to share this?
Re: leica dm 2000 with DIC objective compatiblity
Wayne, perhaps take a screenshot and post it as a picture? Might need a couple to have parts of the spreadsheet show up large enough to read.
Re: leica dm 2000 with DIC objective compatiblity
Let's see if this works as I found an attachment function. Below is a file that details the Leica HC and HCX objective spec with reference to the ICT condenser and objective prisms. all the best
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apochronaut
- Posts: 6327
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Re: leica dm 2000 with DIC objective compatiblity
That works fine. The detail is excellent.
Re. Leitz infinity. I have never seen any Leitz cover slip corrected infinity objectives. I don't think it possible, due to the Leica branding and thus adoption of an infinity system being applied after a merger and therefore a applied to a different entity than Wild-Leitz.
Re. Leitz infinity. I have never seen any Leitz cover slip corrected infinity objectives. I don't think it possible, due to the Leica branding and thus adoption of an infinity system being applied after a merger and therefore a applied to a different entity than Wild-Leitz.
Re: leica dm 2000 with DIC objective compatiblity
Leica retained the Leitz brand name and considered using it with the HM Lux as recently as 2010-12. However, I think it was only offered in markets outside of Europe and the US. The US felt that the branding would create confusion in the the market where the DM500 and DM750 educational platforms carried the Leica brand with premium performance/price positioning. If I remember correctly, it would have been a finite optics path rather than infinity.
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Scarodactyl
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Re: leica dm 2000 with DIC objective compatiblity
It's still alive!
Kind of!
I imagine this is mostly to keep the trademark alive.
Kind of!
I imagine this is mostly to keep the trademark alive.
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viktor j nilsson
- Posts: 761
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- Location: Lund, Sweden
Re: leica dm 2000 with DIC objective compatiblity
Seeing the venerable Leitz brand on a scope like that is kind of painful.
Re: leica dm 2000 with DIC objective compatiblity
I've been away too long and couldn't remember the model name. I do recall that it never hit the US market.
Re: leica dm 2000 with DIC objective compatiblity
Thank you very much for detailed explanations. all of you are excellent. they are useful for me.