MicrobeHunter.com Microscopy Forum

As many on this forum are aware I purchased a Leica M80 Stereoscope several years ago. It came with a 1x achromatic objective. The resolution of the M80 with a plan achromat objective is listed as 0.103. I am not certain of the resolution with the achromat objective but based on comparisons with other stereoscopes I have with plan objectives, the resolution is less than 0.1. The M50 and M60 with the 1x achromat have an na of 0.072. So based on this I assume the resolution of the M80 to be greater/equal to 0.072 but less than 0.1. Nevertheless, the view is incredible with great color/contrast and a large FOV. But the resolution was just not there, especially at the higher magnifications 40X or greater, when compared to say a Nikon SMZ-U ( 0.09 na) or a Bausch & Lomb SZ7 (0.10 na).

So I have been watching e-bay for a Leica 1x plan achromat #10450167. There has been a #10450167 objective listed on E-bay for about 2 years at $800. I just could not justify that cost. This objective has the same M60 thread interface as the M80 and does not require an adapter. Alternatives like a Leica 1x plan Apo objective, for example, requires an Adapter as the plan Apos have an M65 thread designation. Leica adapters pop up on occasion but often list for as much as $300 just for the adapter. The Plan Apo objectives list on E-bay for between $700 - $2400. So again that means investing at least $1000 to upgrade the 1x achromat I have.

There are, however, quite a few Wild M8 1x plan achromats listed on E-bay for less than $300. I managed to obtain one for less than $150. Holding it up to my M80 it appeared to function perfectly with noticeably better resolution. The problem was the interface. Although the Wild M8 objective has an M60 thread it would not mount to my M80 due to the threads being positioned further down the objective. Take a look at the photos below.



As you can see the position of the threads on the Wild objective would not allow the objective to screw in to the body of the M80. So I contacted our friend Rafael Pankratau. He owns RAF Camera located in Belarus. He has made custom adapters for me in the past. So I described what I wanted and we agreed on the following design:



Here is the finished Adapter mounted to the Wild M8 1x plan achromat:




The results were fantastic. The resolution and chromatic blur of the Wild M8 Objective is significantly superior to the 1x achromat at all magnifications. The cost less than $200 including the objective and adapter.

Raf also provided me with adapters so I could try M65 Leica Plan Apos and even Olympus Plan Apo objectives in the future.

I highly recommend RAF Camera. The workmanship is incredible and he can make just about any adapter you can conceive. Total time from conception to delivery was about 6 weeks.

Now..where did I see that Plan Apo listed?

Very nice! Those achromats are OK and all but the atep up in going to a good plan objective is pretty big.

Scarodactyl wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:34 pm

Very nice! Those achromats are OK and all but the atep up in going to a good plan objective is pretty big.

The size differences between the achromat objectives and the plan achromat objectives is dramatic. As is the price differential! I am happy with the performance of the Wild objective. I want to see how much difference a plan apo gives in terms of resolution. Interestingly enough on some model stereoscopes there is no difference in na between the plan and the plan apo. Other brands, like Nikon for example, there is a noticeable difference per the brochures.

Within a system it may not vary as much, but typically when you move up to the higher tier of objectives (nikon HR, Leica 65mm series etc) working distances drop and resolutions increase since they need to handle higher max magnifications. The resolution on the 1x plan apo on my M10 knocks my socks off even with 15x eyepieces.

Scarodactyl wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:11 pm

Within a system it may not vary as much, but typically when you move up to the higher tier of objectives (nikon HR, Leica 65mm series etc) working distances drop and resolutions increase since they need to handle higher max magnifications. The resolution on the 1x plan apo on my M10 knocks my socks off even with 15x eyepieces.

As does DOF, especially for the higher mags, such as the 2x. In fact, in one article by Nikon they actually recommended going to higher mag eyepieces, before purchasing a higher mag objective, in order to retain DOF.

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A great success story … and a mystery solved for me !

I had often wondered what connection there was with the Royal Air Force

MichaelG.

Do you know what is going on with Raf? He removed all his items from Ebay. I worked with Raf earlier on adapter to mount Olympus SZH/SZX lenses on Leica MS/MZ/M microscopes with M50xPh3 thread, like Mz6 that I use: https://www.ebay.com/itm/256248894585?h ... R8agpM3pYg I would like to order another adapter from Raf, but he is gone from Ebay...

Being located in Russia probably makes ecommerce difficult right now.

Scarodactyl wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 19, 2024 1:15 am

Being located in Russia probably makes ecommerce difficult right now.

Actually he lists his location as Belarus. Given the proximity to Russia etc it could impact delivery. Although that did not seem to be the case with me.

ZodiacPhoto wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 19, 2024 12:40 am

Do you know what is going on with Raf? He removed all his items from Ebay. I worked with Raf earlier on adapter to mount Olympus SZH/SZX lenses on Leica MS/MZ/M microscopes with M50xPh3 thread, like Mz6 that I use: https://www.ebay.com/itm/256248894585?h ... R8agpM3pYg I would like to order another adapter from Raf, but he is gone from Ebay...

I just received 3 adapters from him as well as a few emails. Perhaps he simply has no more adapters available for sale on Ebay. I purchased one of the adapters direct off of E-bay and the other two via direct communication with him.

The adapters I purchased will be made available for purchase on E-bay shortly from my understanding.

einman wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 20, 2024 3:25 am

Scarodactyl wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 19, 2024 1:15 am

Being located in Russia probably makes ecommerce difficult right now.

Actually he lists his location as Belarus. Given the proximity to Russia etc it could impact delivery. Although that did not seem to be the case with me.

From what I have heard they are made in Belarus but he is in Russia, which might make receiving money from eBay very difficult.

Hmmm...I guess we could just ask him.

ok- I received an e-mail from Raf. I will post it separately so everyone can read it without having to access this specific thread.

I post this comment on the topic not on the basis of analytical evidence, but only on my experience with Wild and Leica stereo microscopes now for about 40 years. My work is as a systematic botanist, and in all these years the microscope has been my work partner to accurately observe, understand, dissect and document the fine structures of the plants I study.

My impression, both in simple observation and in photographic documentation, is that when Wild took over the majority shareholding of Leica, and eventually absorbed it completely, the essential elements of the stereo microscopes produced in Heerbrugg did not substantially change. Plastic replaced metal and the design of the instruments was somewhat "modernized", but a Leica MZ8 is, in essence, a Wild M8 with a plastic cover.

However, I wouldn't say the same thing about the optics. Although I have no proof of this, it would seem logical to me to assume that the new owners of Leica made use of the much broader and historically grounded expertise of Leica's optical engineers to refine the objectives and eyepieces intended for Wild's "microscope division", now marketed under the Leica name.

I have used for years a Plan 1x objective branded "Wild Heerbrugg", as well as, for the same microscope, the same objective, now in "Leica finish", with the new code 367800 (which was, in fact, mounted on my first personal stereo ). The two lenses were certainly superior to the 1x achromatic lens from Wild and Leica, and much less tiring especially for long work sessions, but in my opinion they were identical to each other.

I can't say the same for the 1x Plan lens that Leica introduced for its M series, with 60mm thread (with the code 10450167, as the OP indicated). In my opinion, this lens has greater contrast (perhaps even greater sharpness, but it could depend on the improved contrast) and greater uniformity in optical performance throughout the entire field of vision.

Einman is right that 800 US$ is quite a lot of money for a lens, but is it worth it? For me yes. I really prefer the new Leica 1x Plan, and for this reason I asked Rafael Pankratu to make me an adapter ring to use this lens (10450167 has 60 mmm thread) also on my MZ6 (with 50mm thread), when I have to work on it for a long time.

I cannot attest to the performance of the Leica Plan 1x objective #10450167 vs the Wild Plan 1x objective I am currently using. However, I can attest to the superior performance of the Plan 1x Wild objective over the Leica 1x achromat.

Given I purchased the Wild objective for less than $200 vs the $800 for the Leica objective it was money well spent. The Wild objective is commonly sold on E-bay. I have only seen one Leica plan 1x 10450167 for more than a year.

I never "compared" the performance of the Wild plan objective to the Leica plan objective, as I did not own a Leica plan objective. The posting offered a MUCH less expensive alternative to stepping up from the Leica Achromat.

To be clear I agree the Leica Plan 1x objective is probably well worth the $800 especially given the original suggested pricing. I myself tend to try and get the maximum performance for the minimum dollar ( cheapskate--LOL).

I have been looking at Leica Plan Apo objectives wondering if the performance is significant enough to justify that as my next upgrade.

Any comments on the Leica plan 1x vs the Plan Apo?

I have not done that direct comparison.

However, I have several Wild and Leica stereo Planapo -objectives and have never paid more than maybe 600 euros (I think it was around that sum for the Leica 2x Planapo in extremely good condition). For 1x Planapos the cost was 300-400 a piece on average. In short: I would never pay anywhere close to 800 USD/EUR for a Plan.

einman wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:39 am

To be clear I agree the Leica Plan 1x objective is probably well worth the $800 especially given the original suggested pricing. I myself tend to try and get the maximum performance for the minimum dollar ( cheapskate--LOL).

I have been looking at Leica Plan Apo objectives wondering if the performance is significant enough to justify that as my next upgrade.

Any comments on the Leica plan 1x vs the Plan Apo?

einman, here I took three images of an orchid pollinarium, at about 10x, as much as possible in the same lighting conditions (I had to more or less adapt my ring light 66mm to the 60mm diameter of the Plan). I used a Leica Plan 1x for the images on the top, and a Leica Planapo 1x for those on the bottom, both on a M80 stereo. Images have not been sharpened.


A little fringe is still visible in the images taken with the Planapo, I guess because the optics of the M80 are not apochromatically corrected (as those of the research grade stereos M125, M165 and M205).

Thanks. Just saw this. Im currently in Costa Rica and only now checked my messages. I appreciate the response! I can clearly see an improvement. Pictures are generally not as discerning as the human eye. I am still looking for a planapo at a reasonable price, reasonable to me that is. I have my eye on 2.

fufluns wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:29 am

A little fringe is still visible in the images taken with the Planapo, I guess because the optics of the M80 are not apochromatically corrected (as those of the research grade stereos M125, M165 and M205).

You get some fringe even with the nominally appchromatic bodies, just the nature of the beast.