First scope advice

Everything relating to microscopy hardware: Objectives, eyepieces, lamps and more.
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Dale
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First scope advice

#1 Post by Dale » Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:20 am

I've narrowed my search to an Amscope 490B. It has 10X and 20X eyepieces, but a reviewer
suggested adding a 16X to achieve good 1200X without oil. The extra $60 is not a deal breaker.
I'm not a beginner, but my experience dates back to the 50's, and is spotty. I can count cells and use
a microtome, but I've never mounted a specimen or stained. My buy list contains the usual basic supplies:
regular and oil slides, slips, and a slide holder box. My subjects will be the usual small stuff around the house and
garden, no bacteria sized stuff, but gallons of pond water! Any suggestions or opinions?

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gekko
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Re: First scope advice

#2 Post by gekko » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:32 am

My 2-cents' worth: It may be useful to review what Oliver wrote in the main Microbe Hunter website about the choice and use of a microscope (much useful information there) in order to remind yourself of the important points (e.g., resolution vs. magnification among other things). I cannot offer suggestions on slide mounting (I've never done any-- I've used only live specimens)-- I hope others will. 10x eyepieces are standard. A 16x or 20x makes sense if your vision (like mine) is not good, otherwise it is, in general, not very useful. If you intend to take pictures, I suggest you get a trinocular microscope-- much more convenient (the Amscope 390B appears to come in both binocular and trinocular versions). Also, if you are going to look at thin sections (you mention microtomes), then consider getting a microscope with "plan" objectives, especially if you intend to take pictures.
Finally, good luck and enjoy this wonderful hobby!

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Dale
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Re: First scope advice

#3 Post by Dale » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:13 pm

390? Will check that out. Still toying with the trinocular option as I have a lot of camera equipment and experience. Not sure as I would ever mount anything either, but you never know. I read about the 'empty magnification' which is why I hesitate to go to a 2000X
scope, but a good 1200X feels ok. Will have to see if I could buy the scope with PLAN lenses instead of the regular. Thanks.
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Re: First scope advice

#4 Post by JimT » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:11 am

Dale, my experiences since I am new to this hobby. I have an Amscope B120 and am very pleased with it. I have since upgraded the 4x, 10x, and 40x obj's. to PLAN and I can recommend you do that.

I also added a 60x obj. (not PLAN because the DOF is so narrow anyway) for when I don't need or want to go to the OI 100x.

Scope came with 10x and 25x eyepieces (25's are useless) and a 1.3MP camera which was also useless. Be mindful of empty magnification.

I also upgraded to the 3 MP camera (which is good for "I should take a picture of that") and wish I had gone for the 5MP. I have a DSLR I use on a tripod with eyepiece projection for when I try to take better images.

Just ordered a 20x PLAN obj. for when 10x is not quite good enough and 40x is too much. Will let this forum know how I like it.

I have found this to be a good site for a learner like me and hope to hear how you fare.

JimT

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75RR
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Re: First scope advice

#5 Post by 75RR » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:33 pm

Hi Dale.
Still toying with the trinocular option as I have a lot of camera equipment and experience.
I was bitten by the microscopy bug in May.
Have therefore been sharing my binocular head with a camera on a tripod for several months now.
I strongly urge you get a trinocular head if it is within your budget.

By the way, I believe it is not the Amscope microscope number as such that links to a trinocular head but the prefix "T" that does.
Similarly, "B" stands for Binocular and "M" stands for monocular.
See the models in Amazon.

Let us know what you get.
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Dale
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Re: First scope advice

#6 Post by Dale » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:03 pm

Argh, trying to watch football and research scope options!!
Seems the biggest regret is not getting the tri head, so I''ll add that.
I quickly looked at the Amscope 390 models, but there were too many. Will now spend some time
to see what the differences are between it and the 490.
I would like to know how you like the 40X PLAN also. I'm thinking that 1600X is a stretch for non-oil.
JimT, do you go direct to Amscope or use Amazon?
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Re: First scope advice

#7 Post by JimT » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:25 pm

I have ordered from both Amazon and Amscope. You won't go wrong with either. Only advantage with Amazon is their "No questions asked" return policy.
I agree 1600x will not give good images. Better 1000x with oil or in my case 60x dry. Lastly, the 40x PLAN obj. gives better color and much flatter field of view; noticeable difference visually and in photographs. JimT

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Dale
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Re: First scope advice

#8 Post by Dale » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:36 am

I hope I understood that. My highest dry power would be 800X from a 20 X 400. I would rather buy the
60X objective for 1200 dry. I decided against the trinocular. I emailed Amscope about selling me a scope
with the 100x oil lens swapped for a 60X. They answered, but I've not read it yet, I don't care as I'm sure the
60X would be a good investment. If not I could come after you, right?
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Re: First scope advice

#9 Post by gekko » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:52 pm

At the risk of being obnoxiously repetitive, may I suggest that you again consider getting a trinocular scope as, if you decide to take pictures at some point, a binocular would be quite unwieldy in my opinion (for what it is worth). The other thing I would consider is to get a scope that you can later equip with phase contrast capability (very useful for examining small virtually transparent critters and unstained sections). If I were buying a microscope, I would not worry (or even think) about magnification as any good general purpose microscope will cover the range of useful optical magnifications. One can always add an objective (60x or 20x or 2x, depending one one's needs) later after finding out what would be most useful in particular circumstances.

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Dale
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Re: First scope advice

#10 Post by Dale » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:33 am

Gekko, your obnoxious and repetitive replies are extremely valuable and highly revered. A local camera store had quoted me a terrible price for the camera adapter, like $350, which is why I shied away from the trinocular and photomocroscopy. The true cost is only $85. So the scope I'm looking at right now is a t360b. I will have to research your lighting recommendation to how I would implement it. Also want to compare a dslr image to a microscope camera adapter connected to a laptop. Tnx
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Re: First scope advice

#11 Post by JimT » Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:42 pm

Dale, if your DSLR has remote shooting capability you can connect it to the laptop, lock the mirror up to avoid vibrations, and have live view to tweak the focus. The DSLR should always take better images than a USB camera.

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Re: First scope advice

#12 Post by gekko » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:17 pm

JimT wrote:Dale, if your DSLR has remote shooting capability you can connect it to the laptop, lock the mirror up to avoid vibrations, and have live view to tweak the focus. The DSLR should always take better images than a USB camera.
I agree with JimT, and would add: If one is buying a DSLR to use with a microscope (rather than use what one has), it would be worth considering one of the Canon DSLR's that have a "silent" mode (electronic shutter) to eliminate vibration from the shutter in addition to that from the mirror.
Dale wrote:I will have to research your lighting recommendation to how I would implement it.
Do you mean phase contrast? If so, although some enterprising people have attempted DIY versions, it is not a simple thing to do, and buying the components (expensive as they are) is the only practical way to go. I checked out Amscope, and they have several kits (objectives and condenser must be designed for phase contrast, but can be used for bright field as well), the least expensive being: http://www.amscope.com/accessories/phas ... copes.html
I would guess that those kits can be used with any of the Amscope microscopes, although this may not be so, and one has to check with Amscope to be sure (mainly that the condenser will fit the microscope in question).

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Re: First scope advice

#13 Post by Crater Eddie » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:06 pm

I have found that the folks at Amscope are very helpful and willing to answer questions. If you can catch them, the online chat feature on their website is very useful.
CE
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Dale
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Re: First scope advice

#14 Post by Dale » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:19 pm

Expensive is an understatement, don't think I'll go that route, but they do have one that ought to be reasonable It has PLAN objectives,
a reversed turret, halogen lighting, tri head, 10X & 20X oculars, My Nikon has all the features mentioned, I'm good to go there. Seems every day or so a new variable pops up, like is a 30 deg or 45 deg tilt best!
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Re: First scope advice

#15 Post by gekko » Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:25 am

The scope with the plan objectives sounds like a plan :roll: There are other good ways to enhance contrast (other that phase) that need cost nothing extra. Rheinberg filters and oblique (and darkfield) illumination, for example. Also "UFG" (sometimes anglicized as "UGF") gives results that are often hard to distinguish from DIC/Nomarski, as well as polarized light (which only requires two inexpensive polarizing filters or pieces cut out of a polarizing sheet). For a superb recent example of the use of the UFG and polarizing filters as well as relevant links:
search.php?keywords=Rheinberg+filters+U ... mit=Search
By the way, I miss the backward facing (reversed) turret: my current microscope has a regular (forward facing) turret and I find it quite awkward to place and remove slides on the stage (I use a lollipop stick to push it under the objectives :( ).

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Dale
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Re: First scope advice

#16 Post by Dale » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:37 am

My mistake, the model I liked has semi-planar,which is ok. What bothers me is that the details
list the objectives as achromatic. I guess I would 7 days to try and determine if I was really getting
the 85% sharpness. I chatted with tech-D today, but could not get a good answer.
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Re: First scope advice

#17 Post by gekko » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:55 pm

Achromats mean that they are corrected for two colors. Better (but, of course, more expensive) objectives are fluor objectives and apochromats. Achromats can be "plain" where focus in the central area and outer edges occur at different objective-object distances, semi-plan, or plan, with successively wider areas that would be simultaneously in focus.
In my view, for what it is worth, for visual observation, having plan or semi-plan objectives may not be very important, because normally one would be using the fine focus to keep what one is looking at in focus. For photography of living critters, it may not be terribly important because usually those are three-dimensional anyway so the choice of the point of focus depends on the situation. It is, however, important for the photography of thin flat sections in order to get most of the field of view in focus in the same image.
Having said that, however, my understanding is that in general, plan (and probably semi-plan) objectives may have better overall correction than non-plan objectives, so may give better results. I hope others will chip in and correct my (mis)understanding.

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Re: First scope advice

#18 Post by 75RR » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:01 pm

Hi Lymia,
The DSLR (Digital Single Lens Reflex) is a modern version of the SLR (Single Lens Reflex), a camera that was used by advanced hobbyists and professionals with changeable lenses that used rolls of film.
It is not made for microscope photography but can be adapted to do so.
The term USB Cameras is used to denote dedicated microscope cameras.

I think you will find this article helpful:
http://www.microbehunter.com/connecting ... icroscope/
Zeiss Standard WL (somewhat fashion challenged) & Wild M8
Olympus E-P2 (Micro Four Thirds Camera)

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Re: First scope advice

#19 Post by 75RR » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:08 pm

So, what I understand is that even if we don't buy a camera that is made for microscopes (USB), we can still use other kinds of cameras that we can fix on the microscope.
Yes
And they are the ones that can be called DSLR.
A DSLR is a type of camera. If you go to amazon and search "DSLR" you will find that the cost ranges from a few hundred dollars to several thousand.
Jim T seemed to think USB cameras were not as good as DSLR, so I was wondering if I should think about buyig DSLR instead of USB? Would that be better?
It depends on your needs. A USB camera is much simpler to attach to a microscope and depending on which one you get can give very good images. I would recommend a 5 MP USB camera, to start with. See how it goes.
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Re: First scope advice

#20 Post by JimT » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:18 am

A good DSLR will be better than a USB camera but will cost about 10-20X's as much!
I agree with 75RR, a 5MP USB camera is a very good choice for the microscope. Easier to set up and use, can probably take videos as well as stills, and will satisfy 90plus% of your needs for a microscope camera. I have a 3MP USB camera that I use for many photos (some of which I post here) and am very pleased with it.
A DSLR is only a better camera if you do other photography as well-which I do :)

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Re: First scope advice

#21 Post by mrsonchus » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:54 pm

Lymia wrote:Ok, thank you both for your answers. This is exactly what I needed to know. My choice now that I understand: USB, 5 MP. :)
Sorry to but-in but I think you're right. I've got a 2mp Toupcam USB 'scope camera attached and whilst it's pretty good
as an affordable general-purpose solution it's not really up to standard as far as I'm concerned. It just leaves me looking
at others' pictures and wishing mine looked like that! My 'scope is crystal-clear with superb resolution, but sadly the 2mp
USB camera leaves me disappointed.
I've more or less decided to go for a reasonably-priced Canon 1200D as it has 18mp and the camera-control software (enabling
it to be controlled from the computer) has a reputation of being pretty good too.
A 5mp USB sounds pretty good too - it should be quite an improvement on my somewhat lackluster 2mp model I think. The USB
cameras really are very convenient in use, very little hassle with them from my experience - I leave mine attached to my photo-port and use the binoculars as usual.

Good luck with your camera - there's nothing like being able to look back over your slides when learning and attempting
new techniques etc.

regards
John B

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Re: First scope advice

#22 Post by JimT » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:41 pm

mrsonchus, I offer the same advice I gave Lymia, a DSLR is only good if you do other photography given the cost Vs. a 5MP USB camera.
I have a Canon (my second one) and think they are great! That said, I am not so sure about the 1200D.
Probably shouldn't use this site but check out the following: http://www.cnet.com/products/canon-eos-rebel-t5/ and do due diligence.
Good luck.

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Re: First scope advice

#23 Post by kkokkolis » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:57 pm

My 'scope is crystal-clear with superb resolution, but sadly the 2mp
USB camera leaves me disappointed.


Which 2MP camera is that and what is the problem with it?
Only Celestron Microscope Imager is available here at 84 euros. I could buy a 5MP from Amscope with the same money but I think I try this first because I'm not into photography, I just want to share some views in web friendly format. But you need sharp focus even for that.

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Re: First scope advice

#24 Post by mrsonchus » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:02 am

JimT wrote:mrsonchus, I offer the same advice I gave Lymia, a DSLR is only good if you do other photography given the cost Vs. a 5MP USB camera.
I have a Canon (my second one) and think they are great! That said, I am not so sure about the 1200D.
Probably shouldn't use this site but check out the following: http://www.cnet.com/products/canon-eos-rebel-t5/ and do due diligence.
Good luck.
Yes I see your point. I use a Nikon P510 bridge camera for photography - I know - but it does everything I want it to. But it doesn't have a removable lens! I'm considering the 1200D because the Canons are said to be very good when controlled via a laptop with the Canon software, and because I really can't afford anything more expensive - I've just had a brand new SP200 'scope bought for me and now I'm really keeping my head down......
I've been looking tonight at buying a Canon 100D body only, I can get a decent one for less than a new 1200D it would seem.
What do you think?
John B

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Re: First scope advice

#25 Post by mrsonchus » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:16 am

kkokkolis wrote:
My 'scope is crystal-clear with superb resolution, but sadly the 2mp
USB camera leaves me disappointed.


Which 2MP camera is that and what is the problem with it?
Only Celestron Microscope Imager is available here at 84 euros. I could buy a 5MP from Amscope with the same money but I think I try this first because I'm not into photography, I just want to share some views in web friendly format. But you need sharp focus even for that.
My 2mp is a Toupcam (sold as a 'digicam' by Brunel). It isn't bad - it just doesn't have the resolution to compare even remotely with what I see down my microscope..... I study pollen a lot and they are very small and therefore need very high magnification (at least 400x) to see any real surface details. The actual pollen grains will only occupy a very small portion of a photomicrograph and therefore are much more resolution-dependent (when viewing on a computer screen for example) than say images of a stem cross-section or a bee's leg.

Unfortunately my recent huge microscope upgrade has shown up my Toupcam a touch and now I'm dissatisfied with it (groan)...
Maybe I'm just too demanding and fussy - I'm extremely lucky to have the equipment I own now!

p.s. if you can get a 5mp USB camera to fit to your 'scope for 89 euro - I'd say grab it without hesitation, as that seems an extremely good price!

best regards

JB
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Re: First scope advice

#26 Post by JimT » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:44 am

mrsonchus, you already have a nice camera for photography unless you want to become a serious photography hobbyist. A 5MP USB camera will be very good for microscope images unless you want to enlarge them to "mega size". Connectable to your lap top, can take TIFF images, and suitable for post processing.

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Re: First scope advice

#27 Post by mrsonchus » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:26 am

JimT wrote:mrsonchus, you already have a nice camera for photography unless you want to become a serious photography hobbyist. A 5MP USB camera will be very good for microscope images unless you want to enlarge them to "mega size". Connectable to your lap top, can take TIFF images, and suitable for post processing.
Do you think the 5mp will give me the clarity I would like? I think it may actually be more expensive than say a Canon
DSLR body of about 18mp.

Any thoughts - I've posted some images to illustrate my Toupcam's lack of prowess but maybe it's the camera or the intemediate optical focusing adapter that sits between it and the phototube of my 'scope?
This is my 2mp USB camera
This is my 2mp USB camera
websize_cam_on_scope.jpg (264.06 KiB) Viewed 13343 times
Not sure if I should spend another £200-£300 on another bit of kit (camera)......
John B

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Re: First scope advice

#28 Post by JimT » Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:19 am

I think I mentioned that in addition to my Canon I have the Amscope 3MP USB camera and am quite happy with it. I think for the price you should try the 5MP and if you are not pleased with it I think there is a money back guarantee. Here is the site of such a camera.
http://www.amscope.com/accessories/came ... a-5mp.html

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