AO 110 opportunity!

[cpsTN]

I have the opportunity to buy an older American Optical 110 with five Plan Infinity objectives: 10x, 10x long WD, 45x, 50x with iris, 100x oil for $300. Also has both bright field and dark field condensers. I will be able to use it for some time before I purchase it, if I do. Just thought I would run it by you guys and see what you think because it's always nice to have another opinion.

[75RR]

Hard to think of a better "look before you buy" arrangement. Say yes!

[cpsTN]

I have already said yes to the deal. I am going to pay for it to be shipped to me and then after awhile pay for it and it should be mine if it's all he says it is.

[zzffnn]

That is a good deal. Who is your seller? You can PM me, if you prefer that way. Thanks.

[cpsTN]

A person I "met" on Facebook in one of the microscopy forums. He lives in the Flint.

[rnabholz]

That is a great stand, and with a darkfield condenser, even better.

Price is good too.

Congratulations

Rod

[apochronaut]

It is a good deal Charles, especially, since you can use it in advance, just as long as everything is so-so. I am very familiar with these, so I will go over a few ; watch for's.

Firstly. is it trinocular? If you plan on doing any picture taking, you will need either that, or a teaching attachment. A trinoc head or teaching attachment will likely run you an extra 75.00 at least, seldom less, plus all the adapters and a tube lens, to get to the photography stage.

Does it have the correct eyepieces? They should be cat.# 180. Sometimes eyepieces get swapped around and, simply because they fit, others get put in.

You mention that there are 5 plan objectives. You mention a 10X W.D. objective? Is that to mean a 10X L.W.D.? AO didn't make a 10X L.W.D. plan objective and I know of none marked W.D.
They also did not make a 45X plan objective. If you could get all of the cat.#'s, that are stamped right on the objective barrels, from the owner and post them, it will be easy to tell, just what those objectives are and what you can expect of them. The three 45X .66 N.A. achromat objectives they made, were good workhorse objectives for routine work but to meet modern standards, and especially if you want to do photomicrography, you will need the cat.# 1023 planachro, at least, better the # 1309 planachro.

Over time, the stages develop enough wear to cause a little slop in y travel, mainly. While this is a fairly simple lube and adjust situation, it is something to watch out for. It's a 2 hour job to do it , so it will last another 20 years.

The field iris is cable driven and these can suffer from drying out over time, making the function of the iris stiff or even non-functional.

There were several BF condenser options and one DF condenser option. Given that one of the objectives, may be a L.W.D. objective, the appropriate condenser for that objective, is necessary. Posting the cat.# of both of the condensers would help determine the overall system compatability, too.

[cpsTN]

It is a good deal Charles, especially, since you can use it in advance, just as long as everything is so-so. I am very familiar with these, so I will go over a few ; watch for's.

Firstly. is it trinocular? If you plan on doing any picture taking, you will need either that, or a teaching attachment. A trinoc head or teaching attachment will likely run you an extra 75.00 at least, seldom less, plus all the adapters and a tube lens, to get to the photography stage.

Does it have the correct eyepieces? They should be cat.# 180. Sometimes eyepieces get swapped around and, simply because they fit, others get put in.

You mention that there are 5 plan objectives. You mention a 10X W.D. objective? Is that to mean a 10X L.W.D.? AO didn't make a 10X L.W.D. plan objective and I know of none marked W.D.
They also did not make a 45X plan objective. If you could get all of the cat.#'s, that are stamped right on the objective barrels, from the owner and post them, it will be easy to tell, just what those objectives are and what you can expect of them. The three 45X .66 N.A. achromat objectives they made, were good workhorse objectives for routine work but to meet modern standards, and especially if you want to do photomicrography, you will need the cat.# 1023 planachro, at least, better the # 1309 planachro.

Over time, the stages develop enough wear to cause a little slop in y travel, mainly. While this is a fairly simple lube and adjust situation, it is something to watch out for. It's a 2 hour job to do it , so it will last another 20 years.

The field iris is cable driven and these can suffer from drying out over time, making the function of the iris stiff or even non-functional.

There were several BF condenser options and one DF condenser option. Given that one of the objectives, may be a L.W.D. objective, the appropriate condenser for that objective, is necessary. Posting the cat.# of both of the condensers would help determine the overall system compatability, too.

First of all, it is marked "Microstar" and "AO One-Ten". It is NOT Trinocular. The eyepieces, as seen in one of the pix he sent to my phone, ARE clearly marked "AO180". He sent me two links, one is a complete list of objectives with cat#s. The other is of AOs page telling all about the scope. One pic shows both of the 10x objectives. Both 10x Objectives are marked "10/.25" followed by the cat#s. The numbers on them are #1019 and #1021, with the #1019 having a noticably larger aperture. I checked the specs on the list and the WDs are 9.1mm (#1019) and 4.3mm (#1021). Aside from the Pic of the 10x objectives, no other close up objectives pix have been sent yet. He just listed the objectives it has. He could have mistyped something. He did suggest and advise for other EPs, with cat#s. He suggested: 2.5x (#1028), 4x (#1017) and 20x (#1022). Also, he said the EP diameter is "0.7626 of an inch and 36 tpi". If stated correctly, that would make the EP diameter less them 20mm. At only 19.4mm, this means my 5MP camera won't fit. As far as the Condensers, I have a pic of one, but no numbers. He just texted and said he will check on the statement of the 45x objective being Plan and on the Condenser numbers. Let you know tonight. I should have the scope by this time next week.

[apochronaut]

# 1019 10x was the older planachro that AO produced, going back to the series 10. The # 1021 was a technical improvement over the 1019 and is considered an advanced planachro. To have both in the same microscope, is a bit strange but I suppose if you needed the extra W.D. that the 1019 offers, then that's a personal choice. Filling the 1019 hole with a # 1017 or a # 1022 would make some sense. The cat.# 1028 2.5x, requires a condenser with a wider field, in order to fill it's field : cat.# 1094, which has a flip top lens. The # 1028 is not fully plan in my opinion and has value principally as a scanning lens. The # 1017 4x is a more useful objective, has a fully plan field and works well with the better condensers.
I have no idea what he is talking about , saying the eyepiece diameter is .7626 and 36 tpi? The eyepieces don't have any threads per inch. He is talking about the standard R.M.S. thread for the objectives.
The eyepiece tubes on that microscope are the 23.2mm standard , found on other microscopes.

[cpsTN]

Thank you for the advice. I'm going to get it and then monkey with it and then I'll have a better idea of what I want to do if anything. Surely I won't need both of 45x and 50x. I would like something in the 20x range because that would fill a gap between 10 and 45. As far as he is getting confused between the the eyepieces and the objectives, he hasn't used this scope in several years he said and he has others so over the course of his feelings he might be getting the scopes confused.

He texted me as I was writing this so here are the objectives he actually hands. He says I am correct the 45 is not a plan:

10x #1019
10x #1021
45x #1116
50x #1016
100x #1024
Abbe Condenser # 1087
DF Condenser just says "AO USA".

[einman]

Good deal if as APO says all is well, especially with a darkfield condenser.

[apochronaut]

Thank you for the advice. I'm going to get it and then monkey with it and then I'll have a better idea of what I want to do if anything. Surely I won't need both of 45x and 50x. I would like something in the 20x range because that would fill a gap between 10 and 45. As far as he is getting confused between the the eyepieces and the objectives, he hasn't used this scope in several years he said and he has others so over the course of his feelings he might be getting the scopes confused.

He texted me as I was writing this so here are the objectives he actually hands. He says I am correct the 45 is not a plan:

10x #1019
10x #1021
45x #1116
50x #1016
100x #1024
Abbe Condenser # 1087
DF Condenser just says "AO USA".

The microscope seems pretty good, overall. I certainly would look into getting a # 1022 , 20X advanced planachro . There was also a # 1077, 20x achromat but those are the only 20x objectives useful on that microscope for normal work, with a coverglass.
Having both the 45X and the 50x , although at first doesn't seem to make sense, does in fact, because the 50X is oil immersion, and unlike it's predecessor # 1026 does not form a very good image without oil. Having a dry, mid-magnification objective as well, means the microscope has more latitude and you don't always have to fuss with oil. You could also acquire the cat.# 184 15X eyepieces. They are the correct W.F. design for the 100 series microscopes and could be used effectively with the # 1021 10X, the # 1022 20X and the # 1016 50X oil to obtain intermediate magnifications of 150X, 300X, and 750X, without entering into empty magnification territory.You would not be able to use it with the # 1116 45X or the # 1024 100X oil.
The # 1087 condenser, is an abbe aspheric type and will work well as a dry type condenser for most of any work you will use that microscope for. Full resolution with the 100X oil immersion objective, will require the condenser to be oiled but it can also be used dry, accepting that there will be a slight drop in resolution. You will not be able to use that microscope for 100X dark field, because the 20 watt illumination is too low. For that also, you would need a different 100X objective; either the # 1027 achromat or the 1014 planachro, iris equipped or a cat.# 1079 100x achromat equipped with a funnel stop.

[cpsTN]

Thank you for the advice. I'm going to get it and then monkey with it and then I'll have a better idea of what I want to do if anything. Surely I won't need both of 45x and 50x. I would like something in the 20x range because that would fill a gap between 10 and 45. As far as he is getting confused between the the eyepieces and the objectives, he hasn't used this scope in several years he said and he has others so over the course of his feelings he might be getting the scopes confused.

He texted me as I was writing this so here are the objectives he actually hands. He says I am correct the 45 is not a plan:

10x #1019
10x #1021
45x #1116
50x #1016
100x #1024
Abbe Condenser # 1087
DF Condenser just says "AO USA".

The microscope seems pretty good, overall. I certainly would look into getting a # 1022 , 20X advanced planachro . There was also a # 1077, 20x achromat but those are the only 20x objectives useful on that microscope for normal work, with a coverglass.
Having both the 45X and the 50x , although at first doesn't seem to make sense, does in fact, because the 50X is oil immersion, and unlike it's predecessor # 1026 does not form a very good image without oil. Having a dry, mid-magnification objective as well, means the microscope has more latitude and you don't always have to fuss with oil. You could also acquire the cat.# 184 15X eyepieces. They are the correct W.F. design for the 100 series microscopes and could be used effectively with the # 1021 10X, the # 1022 20X and the # 1016 50X oil to obtain intermediate magnifications of 150X, 300X, and 750X, without entering into empty magnification territory.You would not be able to use it with the # 1116 45X or the # 1024 100X oil.
The # 1087 condenser, is an abbe aspheric type and will work well as a dry type condenser for most of any work you will use that microscope for. Full resolution with the 100X oil immersion objective, will require the condenser to be oiled but it can also be used dry, accepting that there will be a slight drop in resolution. You will not be able to use that microscope for 100X dark field, because the 20 watt illumination is too low. For that also, you would need a different 100X objective; either the # 1027 achromat or the 1014 planachro, iris equipped or a cat.# 1079 100x achromat equipped with a funnel stop.

This AO scope is, from what everyone says, far beyond what I am used to using as far as quality. With other Compounds I have had, I never used anything beyond the 40x objective because I saw no logical reason to look at something at more than 400x. So, I'm somewhat in a fog about the powers and objectives this scope has. Don't get me wrong, I am taking the scope!

When Apochronaut says that the close objectives of 45x and 50x make sense because the 50x is oil (and Plan WITH IRIS in this case), will I see a difference between the dry 450x and the oil 500x? From what I understand, the reason for the oil using certain objectives is that the angles of light cannot be seen clearly without the oil due to, I believe the scattering of the light, as the light goes from one media to the other (air to glass), when using very high power. Is this correct?

Also, what I have confusing me about this scope is that it is supposed to be high end, but when I search for the objectives, I find one that are more inexpensive that I expect. Is this because it is an out-dated system or there are many of these older objectives available, dring the price down? I feel as though I am going from a chevy to an exotic car. Everything looks and sounds familier and unfamiler at the same time.

From what the seller says, the only availible brands of objectives for this system are Amercian Optical themselves and Spencer, but NOT Reichart? I thought Spencer was AO? This "limitation" doesn't bother me, and I have a full list of what objectives are abvailable WITH part numbers. Not only all this, Apochronaut mentioned that I could use specific 15x EPs with this system to get intermediate powers, which indicates higher quality too. Nearly every other time, I am told it is best to stay with 10x EPs and change objectives! I have a feeling I am in for a very fun ride!

[75RR]

When Apochronaut says that the close objectives of 45x and 50x make sense because the 50x is oil (and Plan WITH IRIS in this case), will I see a difference between the dry 450x and the oil 500x? From what I understand, the reason for the oil using certain objectives is that the angles of light cannot be seen clearly without the oil due to, I believe the scattering of the light, as the light goes from one media to the other (air to glass), when using very high power. Is this correct?

Yes, but remember you are not comparing magnification but NA (Numerical Aperture).
The 40x is 0.66 and the 50x is 0.85 so you will get much more resolution.

[cpsTN]

When Apochronaut says that the close objectives of 45x and 50x make sense because the 50x is oil (and Plan WITH IRIS in this case), will I see a difference between the dry 450x and the oil 500x? From what I understand, the reason for the oil using certain objectives is that the angles of light cannot be seen clearly without the oil due to, I believe the scattering of the light, as the light goes from one media to the other (air to glass), when using very high power. Is this correct?

Yes, but remember you are not comparing magnification but NA (Numerical Aperture).
The 40x is 0.66 and the 50x is 0.85 so you will get much more resolution.

The smaller the NA, the better the system can separate fine detail. Is this correct? Does the Iris act like a an f stop for a camera of the focal ratio for a telescope? Since the 50x is a Plan oil with Iris, and the 45x is just a standard Achromat, should't I even keep the 45x? Also, the system uses "Infinity 34". Is the 34mm the distance between the top (mounting) of the objective and the coverslip? Other than choosing objectives in the future for the system, is this number helpful?

[75RR]

The smaller the NA, the better the system can separate fine detail.

No, the higher the better.

Does the Iris act like a an f stop for a camera of the focal ratio for a telescope?

It is used to help achieve darkfield with low NA condensers by allowing you to reduce the NA of the objective.

Since the 50x is a Plan oil with Iris, and the 45x is just a standard Achromat, should I even keep the 45x?

It will be useful for when you do not want to use oil. There are plenty of times when one does not.

Also, the system uses "Infinity 34". Is the 34mm the distance between the top (mounting) of the objective and the coverslip?

Yes

Other than choosing objectives in the future for the system, is this number helpful?

Not really.

[cpsTN]

Sorry. I meant the higher NA the more detail. Is that also true with two objectives of the same power but different NAs?

[75RR]

Is that also true with two objectives of the same power but different NAs?

Yes

[cpsTN]

Does NA also relate to field of view and, if it does, is the relationship directly or inversely proportional? The scope has been shipped. Scheduled to be here Thursday the 26th.

[75RR]

Does NA also relate to field of view ...

I don't believe so. Field of view is a function of the eyepieces.

For example if an eyepiece is marked 10x/20 it indicates a 10x magnification and a 20 mm field of view.
To see how that translates to the field of view available with each objective you divide 20 mm by the magnification of the objective and multiply by 1000

i.e. The field of view visible through the eyepiece for the following objectives would be:
100 magnification objective: 20/100 = 0.2 x 1000 = 200 µm
40 magnification objective: 20/40 = 0.5 x 1000 = 500 µm
20 magnification objective: 20/20 = 1 x 1000 = 1000 µm
10 magnification objective: 20/10 = 2 x 1000 = 2000 µm

This is irrespective of the NA of the objectives.

The scope has been shipped. Scheduled to be here Thursday the 26th.

Good news. Do post photos of it when you can.

[cpsTN]

Cool. That's a great formula to know, Thank You. I will post pix when I get them, probably Friday.

[apochronaut]

With regards to your objective choices, Charles. You are correct in that Spencer and AO were the same company but at the time the company adopted infinity correction, the use of the name Spencer ceased. AO, also owned the Austrian maker, Reichert. When AO became owned themselves by Cambridge Instruments of England, there was a corporate decision to develop a closer working relationship between AO and Reichert, under the more marketable name of Reichert. Later, Cambridge Instruments merged with Wild-Leitz and there was a corporate decision to choose the name Leica for all of the 7 merged companies.
What this means for you, is that the same objectives exist with 3 possible names on them and they all will work on your microscope: AO, Reichert and Leica. Most say made in U.S.A. but a few say Austria on them and with the exception of a few very late production ones, they will have a cat.# on them.
Here is what to keep in mind, when it comes to choosing an objective for that microscope, if you ever need or want to.


The cat.#'s that work all begin with a 10,11,12,13 or 18. If there is no cat.#,it is under 34mm and has an infinity symbol, then it is good.
The cat.#'s that don't work, begin with a 17 and those are all marked Reichert or Leica and are D.I.N. 45mm but they too have the infinity symbol.
Any other Reichert Austria objective or objective with Spencer, AO , Leica, or Cambridge on it, will not work.

[cpsTN]

Thanks Apochronaut. On my last compound, I had objectives of 5, 10, 20, 40. I sold the 100x because I didn't see a reason to magnify anything a thousand times, and since the quality wasn't top notch I figured it wouldn't look all that great anyway. I didn't see a 5x available of the 110, but I did see a 4x. I would like to get a 20x. Here's my confusion. With this being much more high-end than what I'm used to using, I expected the objectives to be very expensive. But these are these objectives are no longer made and not in talk to me anymore I'm finding that they're not very expensive. So how do I know what is a good price for what I buy? I'm not going to be buying a whole lot, maybe a couple more objectives to replace some of the ones I have but not right away. I might sell a couple but I'm not going to do a lot of switching I just need to know what to expect - pricewise.

Also, since I'm getting this on a trial basis, what should I look at with what objectives as a test to see that the quality is there and that things are working well overall? I'm sure I won't be keeping a both 10x objective. How do I get terminal which one I keep or is it just whichever one I think looks a better image-wise?

[rnabholz]

Hi Charles,

APO has done a great job identifying the compatible objectives and some of the nuances between them.

I have found that the Plan Achro series from AO are very good and with great sharpness and flat fields. If I were looking to outfit another One Ten, that would be my choice.

Having watched eBay for a while for these, the range of prices generally are $20 to $75 depending on size and condition. They are pretty plentiful, and patience will usually allow you to find some bargains.

In order to use a 4x, I believe you will need a condenser with a swing in auxiliary lens or the Flip-top" condenser. Make sure you have that before spending any money on a 4x.

Forgive me if you know this, but if you are not acquainted with the set up procedure for Kohler Illumination, you will want to study up. Beautiful views await.

The One Ten is a great scope, I bet you will be pleased.

He is a shot of the objectives I assembled for my One Ten

Good luck

[apochronaut]

Thanks Apochronaut. On my last compound, I had objectives of 5, 10, 20, 40. I sold the 100x because I didn't see a reason to magnify anything a thousand times, and since the quality wasn't top notch I figured it wouldn't look all that great anyway. I didn't see a 5x available of the 110, but I did see a 4x. I would like to get a 20x. Here's my confusion. With this being much more high-end than what I'm used to using, I expected the objectives to be very expensive. But these are these objectives are no longer made and not in talk to me anymore I'm finding that they're not very expensive. So how do I know what is a good price for what I buy? I'm not going to be buying a whole lot, maybe a couple more objectives to replace some of the ones I have but not right away. I might sell a couple but I'm not going to do a lot of switching I just need to know what to expect - pricewise.

Also, since I'm getting this on a trial basis, what should I look at with what objectives as a test to see that the quality is there and that things are working well overall? I'm sure I won't be keeping a both 10x objective. How do I get terminal which one I keep or is it just whichever one I think looks a better image-wise?

Rod, pretty much says the most of it. AO did not make an infinity corrected 5X , just a 4X. They were by far the best mid-grade transmitted light microscope for the money, for a big part of the latter half of the 20th century. For that reason, they sold well and there are a lot of them and parts around, so the stands and their components are underpriced. That's just another thing that makes them so good. I would think that 50.00 or less, should bag a #1022 20x or a #1017 4x. good luck with all that and send on some pics and info. about it all.

[rnabholz]

I meant to mention that the 20x seems to be the hardest to find among the group - not impossible, just more rare than the others.

Good Hunting.

Rod

[cpsTN]

Three things:

1) Can either of you advise as to the specifics of the condenser mentioned to use for the 4x objective? This will allow me to do research on what type this is so I can learn more about what I'm doing if I ever get a 4x.

2) Also, I HAVE noticed that the 20x is more difficult to find and the others. This is not great news because with the other compound I had, the 20x objective was the one I us I'lle the most.

3) Where can I read more about the Kohler illumination?

[rnabholz]

Three things:

1) Can either of you advise as to the specifics of the condenser mentioned to use for the 4x objective? This will allow me to do research on what type this is so I can learn more about what I'm doing if I ever get a 4x.

2) Also, I HAVE noticed that the 20x is more difficult to find and the others. This is not great news because with the other compound I had, the 20x objective was the one I us I'lle the most.

3) Where can I read more about the Kohler illumination?

This is the Flip Top type:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Optica ... SwA3dYOfCY

The Swing In type is a more conventional looking one with a optical element that swings in line - looks like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Optica ... SwnHZYdoBf

The scope will obviously have some kind of condenser. so you may have one or the other already.

There are some folks that hang around here that should be able to put you in touch with a source for a 20x. When you are ready just ask.

The Kohler procedure is outlined in the manual which can be downloaded from this fantastic resource page - it is listed in the grid in the bottom third of the page:

http://user.xmission.com/~psneeley/Pers ... oscope.htm

There are other references there you may want to refer to in the future - I recommend bookmarking the page. The One Ten Series Catalog, and Objective catalog is also found on that page.

[75RR]

This interactive tutorial will let you practice Köhler while you wait for your microscope to arrive.

http://zeiss-campus.magnet.fsu.edu/tuto ... flash.html

Note: Align the filament first.

[apochronaut]

Three things:

1) Can either of you advise as to the specifics of the condenser mentioned to use for the 4x objective? This will allow me to do research on what type this is so I can learn more about what I'm doing if I ever get a 4x.

2) Also, I HAVE noticed that the 20x is more difficult to find and the others. This is not great news because with the other compound I had, the 20x objective was the one I us I'lle the most.

3) Where can I read more about the Kohler illumination?

This is the Flip Top type:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Optica ... SwA3dYOfCY

The Swing In type is a more conventional looking one with a optical element that swings in line - looks like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Optica ... SwnHZYdoBf

The scope will obviously have some kind of condenser. so you may have one or the other already.

There are some folks that hang around here that should be able to put you in touch with a source for a 20x. When you are ready just ask.

The Kohler procedure is outlined in the manual which can be downloaded from this fantastic resource page - it is listed in the grid in the bottom third of the page:

http://user.xmission.com/~psneeley/Pers ... oscope.htm

There are other references there you may want to refer to in the future - I recommend bookmarking the page. The One Ten Series Catalog, and Objective catalog is also found on that page.

The first condenser referenced above; # 1094 is an abbe type and only has value , if you are putting a 2.5x cat.# 1028 objective in the microscope. The two together are going to cost 150.00, likely, so it is hard to see the overall value. Otherwise, the # 1087 , which your microscope already has is an abbe aspheric type, which is a better condenser for the other objectives. I would stick with it. If it does not already have one attached, it will need the aux. lens in order to fill the field for the 4X objective.
The second one referenced above , is for illustration purposes only. That one pictured, is for a series 4 and will not work on your microscope. The aux. lens pictured, is similar to the one needed for the 4X # 1017 objective but the lens is too small. The one needed for the # 1087 condenser, is cat. # 1091 but that is seldom marked on that part. The telling point is the diameter of the lens. It must be 29mm, across. There are other similar looking aux. lenses made for different condensers by AO but they all have smaller lenses.