Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

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SODiatoms
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Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#1 Post by SODiatoms » Fri May 18, 2018 9:55 am

Hi guys

I am new to the forum, a diatomist using an old Nikon Eclipse E400. I have a strange problem. When I touch the stage motion control knob there is about a 10 um movement (at x100 at least) in the y axis, almost like something is lose or not fitting properly/not tight. I did a bit of gentle touching and investigating and the stage also has this wiggle, when not touching the knob. I am not pressing down (toward the desk) just toward me, and I am being gentle, you really only have to touch it. When I take my finger away it moves back to the starting position. It is only in the y axis (i.e. toward and away from me) not in the x axis (side to side). Having never really stripped the stage apart, I was wondering if anyone on here has ever come across a similar problem (on a Nikon or otherwise) and would have any advice on how to rectify the problem? It is not terrible, I generally work around it, but it would be nice to get it fixed given that the x axis is solid and does not move around in the same way.

Many thanks in advance

Charles
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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#2 Post by Charles » Fri May 18, 2018 11:18 am

I know nothing about the Nikon E400 but there some who do. Sounds like something needs to be tightened. I just wanted to welcome you. There are a few of us which dabble into the wonderful world of diatoms. Where are you located?

SODiatoms
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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#3 Post by SODiatoms » Fri May 18, 2018 12:20 pm

Hi Charles

Nice to meet you. I am based in Wales, UK. I did wonder if the teeth on the mechanism that moves the the stage were too far apart, such that the whole upper stage would move back and forth in the grooves. I took it apart and the motion knob grooves seem to fit the teeth nicely, but I can't think of anything else. hmm...
Anyway, it will be nice if someone has come across this exact thing and knows how to solve it.

Hobbyst46
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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#4 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri May 18, 2018 3:59 pm

Hi SODiatoms and welcome! Hope you will share your knowledge of diatoms with us.
SODiatoms wrote:...When I take my finger away it moves back to the starting position.
I know nothing about Nikons, but this moving back of the stage - like a spring action - sounds strange indeed. Could it be that some loose end of a thin metal strip inside the mechanism is being bent like a spring?

Stew
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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#5 Post by Stew » Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:52 am

Hi folks, I have the same problem but in both x and y axes. Any suggestions?
Stew

PeteM
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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#6 Post by PeteM » Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:46 am

The spacing between the rack and pinion gears for both x and y are adjustable. This gets out most of the slop - but you do want a bit of clearance. By using a suitable grease and adjusting the gibs you can damp any further "wiggle."

abednego1995
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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#7 Post by abednego1995 » Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:40 am

These stages use cross-roller bearings, and the rails that hold them are pre-tensioned and fastened with screws. A sharp knock can break this tension and give you the slight but annoying wiggle.

Just loosen the screws on the guide rail, clamp it firmly, and refasten them. This only will help if the rails themselves aren't damaged.

Cheers,
John

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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#8 Post by PeteM » Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:21 pm

John - curious on the bearings used in various Nikon infinite scopes.

My limited experience (an E600 and two ME600 series scopes) is it's cross rollers for the Z direction stage and condenser mounts (up and down) and captive balls running along wires backed on one side with an adjustable gib for the stages' X-Y (traversing the microscope slide) movements?

Two of my three stages came to me with a loose feeling. In one case the gear rack had apparently slipped (two screws), then put back and compressed so it both bound at the ends and had uneven wear.

In another case the gib pressing against the captive balls and rails had lost adjustment - as well as some misadjustment on the friction feel of the knobs. Using a "Quick Grip" clamp lightly holding the rail/gib while loosening/tightening the screws seem to work pretty well.

So far haven't had to mess with the cross rollers for either the stage platform (up-down), but assume it would be a pretty similar design to Olympus BHS/BX?

Are there also better quality Nikon stages that use cross rollers rather than balls for x and y movements?

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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#9 Post by Stew » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:24 pm

Thanks Pete

Thant did the trick!

:D
Stew

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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#10 Post by blekenbleu » Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:08 am

PeteM wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:21 pm
Are there also better quality Nikon stages that use cross rollers rather than balls for x and y movements?
Nikon Labophot and Optiphot stages use crossed-roller bearings.
I had no idea what they were called until Google found this topic
and what that meant before this: https://www.nbcorporation.com/basics-cr ... -bearings/
Image
Metaphot, Optiphot 1, 66; AO 10, 120, EPIStar, Cycloptic

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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#11 Post by PeteM » Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:30 am

blekenbleu wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:08 am
PeteM wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:21 pm
Are there also better quality Nikon stages that use cross rollers rather than balls for x and y movements?
Nikon Labophot and Optiphot stages use crossed-roller bearings.
I had no idea what they were called until Google found this topic
and what that meant before this: https://www.nbcorporation.com/basics-cr ... -bearings/
Image
FWIW, the dozen or so Nikon Labophot/Optiphot stages I've seen use ball bearings in guideways for the x and y movements. The vertical travel, as noted above, uses crossed rollers (as illustrated in the link and also used in Olympus BH2 and BX vertical travel for the stage).

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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#12 Post by blekenbleu » Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:34 am

PeteM wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:30 am
FWIW, the dozen or so Nikon Labophot/Optiphot stages I've seen use ball bearings in guideways for the x and y movements. The vertical travel, as noted above, uses crossed rollers (as illustrated in the link and also used in Olympus BH2 and BX vertical travel for the stage).
Color me puzzled.
By "vertical", I suppose is meant focus direction, controlled by coaxial focus knobs.
I have yet to fully disassemble a Nikon focus rack, but see only dovetails slides.

A used replacement "Nikon Microscope Mechanical Stage X-rack for Labophot and Optiphot Series"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/281567730299 received yesterday,
which was advertised "an easy fix. Even a novice can replace this unit without much trouble",
turned out to have these (new to me) crossed roller bearings.
FWIW, it was NOT (IMO) "an easy fix", with tiny and fiddly rollers, crossed-rollers being a mystery
and requiring the stage to be held on edge for reassembly.
Here is my replaced X-rack (with a stripped screw hole) showing bearing rails without crossed rollers,
for which replacements were not included:
crossed-bearing_rails.jpg
crossed-bearing_rails.jpg (29.44 KiB) Viewed 2958 times
Metaphot, Optiphot 1, 66; AO 10, 120, EPIStar, Cycloptic

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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#13 Post by PeteM » Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:26 pm

You're right! I poked into another one of these stages and it had the crossed rollers. Seems it's only others that used similar tracks but with ball bearings and a retainer running in them.

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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#14 Post by blekenbleu » Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:01 pm

The large (ITP?) stage for my Metaphot was shipped missing a crossed roller rail for its Y direction.
Wierdly, an Optiphot X direction rail has matching length, but is thinner.
It works OK, though
Image
Metaphot, Optiphot 1, 66; AO 10, 120, EPIStar, Cycloptic

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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#15 Post by JGardner » Mon Aug 29, 2022 5:24 pm

For the non-mechanically inclined among us, can someone explain what a “gib” is?

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Re: Nikon E400 stage has some wiggle in the y direction, anyone know how to fix?

#16 Post by blekenbleu » Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:37 pm

Gib.jpg
Gib.jpg (20.93 KiB) Viewed 2856 times
I have not seen dedicated adjustable gibs on microscope stages.
More often, a rail is clamped to the main stage casting by a few screws
through holes in that rail large enough to allow adjustment by
loosening the screws, nudging the rail, then retightening.
Metaphot, Optiphot 1, 66; AO 10, 120, EPIStar, Cycloptic

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