Review / suitability of a new microscope - total beginner

[chas1745]

I am an amateur photographer who recently branched out into stacking images up to 10x magnification using a homebrew platform, microprocessor controlled stepper motor driven, linear rail, bellows and a Nikon objective. I've written the controller software myself and I've been pleased with the results.

Now I want to take things further and get in to microscopy - the emphasis on the image eventually achieved.

I'm totally bewildered - didn't realise microscopes came in so many variations - I soon realised I wanted to photograph opaque subjects as well as slides !!! 2 microscopes??

I believe I have identified a few must haves e.g.:

Mechanical stage
Trinocular with support for attaching DSLR
Coarse and Fine adjustments
Individual dioptre adjustments for the eyepieces
Transmitted lighting (preferably LED)
Condenser with filter holder

I'm reluctant to buy 2nd user as I have no means of checking any device meets its specifications - but I am also sceptical of the quality claims from Chinese manufacturers.

I've been advised that the Brunel SP400 is something I should seriously consider - apparently it is a 'universal' microscope and a hybrid between a stereo microscope and a compound microscope.
http://www.brunelmicroscopes.co.uk/universal.html

Can anyone provide a review of this microscope or at least comment on the specifications / suitability?

Any and all advice much appreciated.

chas1745

[mrsonchus]

Hi, I can't give you help with this particular configuration but can comment re Brunel microscopes and another model of 'scope from them.
This 'scope (SP400xx) is clearly based upon the same chassis etc as the SP200 - a fine infinity (brightfield configuration) 'scope that I bought new from them a few years back now - I sold it on to buy a Leitz Orthoplan (also bought used from Brunel Microscopes) for it's greater versatility.

The SP200 was a very nice 'scope indeed - very robustly and really rather finely built 'scope with smoothly operating racks and excellent Kohler illumination, and a very nice set of plan-infinity objectives... Oh - the double-slide stage was nice too - wish my Orthoplan had one..

My point,
Brunel are a very good, honest company from whom I've been buying supplies and microscopes for about 4 years now, ever since I first started with Botanical microscopy - my interest area. The SP200 is a beautiful 'scope - and I suspect that their SP400 series will be of a similar quality - they really are not cheap & nasty in any way - be assured of that.

Hope this helps a little although regretfully not with details of your application.

[chas1745]

John,
many thanks for that. I admit I got a good feeling when speaking with them - no sales pressure and an invite to 'try before you buy' - all very well but I haven't a clue as yet so totally dependent on the expertise / experiences of others.

Charles

[Hobbyst46]

I am an amateur photographer who recently branched out into stacking images up to 10x magnification using a homebrew platform, microprocessor controlled stepper motor driven, linear rail, bellows and a Nikon objective. I've written the controller software myself and I've been pleased with the results.

Now I want to take things further and get in to microscopy - the emphasis on the image eventually achieved.

I'm totally bewildered - didn't realise microscopes came in so many variations - I soon realised I wanted to photograph opaque subjects as well as slides !!! 2 microscopes??

I believe I have identified a few must haves e.g.:

Mechanical stage
Trinocular with support for attaching DSLR
Coarse and Fine adjustments
Individual dioptre adjustments for the eyepieces
Transmitted lighting (preferably LED)
Condenser with filter holder

I'm reluctant to buy 2nd user as I have no means of checking any device meets its specifications - but I am also sceptical of the quality claims from Chinese manufacturers.

I've been advised that the Brunel SP400 is something I should seriously consider - apparently it is a 'universal' microscope and a hybrid between a stereo microscope and a compound microscope.
http://www.brunelmicroscopes.co.uk/universal.html

Can anyone provide a review of this microscope or at least comment on the specifications / suitability?

Any and all advice much appreciated.

chas1745

Hi and welcome,

Opaque objects require epi-illumination.
Slides require trans-illumination.
It is possible to have them both on the same microscope, whether stereo or "biological" (both are in principle "compound microscopes"). And there are several ways to approach the goal.
Trans-illumination is fairly straightforward, the major decision will be between LED lamp, and halogen lamp, yet either can be used.

Epi-illumination is more tricky. For example, if you want this type of illumination on a biological microscope, you should buy a microscope that offers it, in addition to the trans-illumination. This is not a standard feature of inexpensive, basic grade microscopes.
Metallurgical microscopes are based on coaxial epi-illumination, yet sometimes the ideal illumination for opaque objects is not co-axial with the optical axis of the microscope but sideways, "oblique".

[apochronaut]

I have just a couple of general comments regarding what I am seeing as your requirements vs. what I am seeing as the capabilities of that microscope, that might not match those.

1) the scope will do both transmitted and incident illumination, and therefore can image both transparent subjects as well as opaque subjects. However if you want the type of 3 dimensional visual imaging that a stereo type microscope provides, that scope won't do that. You can get a slight 3-D relief by varying the interpupilary distance a bit from your physiological requirement but it won't be as dramatic as a stereo microscope will give. You cannot capture a 3-D image in photography anyway, without applying one of the 3-D systems being used for 3-D presentation.
2) It has non-coverslip objectives. In order to do biological work with thin specimens, most often you need to use covered specimens. In order to do that, you will have to purchase at least 40 and 100X coverslip corrected objectives, additionally. A 20x would be nice too. So; add 2-3 extra objectives to the cost. These would need to be planachros at a minimum.
3) You will need a mechanical stage in order to set up biological and most opague subjects. I don't see one referenced but I am sure one is available. Add that to the cost.
4) If you want to be able to split the image between the visual head and the camera, it appears that the trinocular head on that scope has only an either or option. You might want to check and see if there is another split image head available for it, if you want that feature.
5) Many modern stereo microscopes have a zoom feature. While, in order to be fully useful for high contrast photography, one has to pay more for a decent stereo microscope ; if the zoom feature is of importance to you, that isn't possible with this scope.

[MicroBob]

Hi Charles,
just some thoughts:

Incident light can be used with different contrast techniques:
brightfield - low contrast, not too usable
Brightfield pol - simple techique for quite good images
Darkfield - very good contrasty images, most versatile, I like it best
DIC - expensive and especially good to detect small surface errors, not for general use

Incident darkfield needs lots of light. 10 W LED or more.

Changeing from incident to transmitted lighting takes up time, two separate stands are better

For stacking a fine adjustment over a long travel will be an advantage.

For successful micro photography you need some experience in microscopy, to get the settings right and make good preparations.

You might consider to start with a normal transmitted light lab microscope and learn to use it. Then later decide what to use for incident light.

I think Brunel sells checked used microscopes too.

Bob

[PeteM]

It looks that if you buy both transmitted and reflected options with that microscope, you'll be up above 2000 pounds price - up to 4000 with DIC. It looks to be a decent microscope, but you could do better and save money if willing to venture in the used market.

Here in the US - perhaps where you are located - there are a wide variety of used Olympus BH2 models available. You should be able to equip one with all the features of the Brunel model (reflected, transmitted, darkfield, and perhaps even reflected DIC) for around $1000-1500 USD. Were you local, you could get a DIC unit with two complete sets of objectives on removable turrets for around $1500.

The Olympus models are quite robust and one forum member (Carl Hunsinger) has published very complete guides on maintenance and repair. I'd rate the Olympus mechanical build quality as superior to most Chinese scopes in the $2000 range. The optics of something like SPlans (available in both transmitted and reflected versions) as slightly superior to typical Chinese plan achromats and perhaps even the pricey fluorite objectives. The less expensive Olympus DPlans are also very good for transmitted work, but with a somewhat smaller "flat" field of view. This comparison is based on my own experience actually owning and similar scopes to the Brunel (Chinese-made AccuScope and Motic with new prices in the $2000-3000 range, both with plan fluor and plan achromat optics).

You'd also be more likely to find affordable "Apo" objectives should you wish to take that ultimate step towards greater image quality and still greater price. I've bought Nikon and Olympus finite Apos in the $200-300 range each.

The Nikon Labophot/Optiphot models as well as Leitz offer similar capabilities. I'd rate the ease of affordably putting together a superior multi-use system as #1 Olympus, slightly behind #2 Nikon (a bit harder to mix and match reflected/transmitted), and #3 Leitz (though in Europe it might have greater availability.)

To summarize - with the Brunel you'd get a nice microscope configured as you want in the $2000-3000 range. This might be the way to go if you have the money, want to get started taking pictures ASAP, and not the interest in learning much about the tool itself. For less money you could get a slightly better scope, with more options for future imaging options in something like an Olympus or Nikon.

While things like cars get worn out from driving them, the mechanisms of well-made scopes are very durable (many still fine after a century of use) and optics simply don't wear out from looking through them. If you can actually see (or return if not satisfied) a used microscope, it's pretty easy to see in a short "test drive" if it has been damaged (as many have, from careless use, or cannibalizing components). Perhaps a colleague could help with an evaluation??

Might also add that if you have the room, you could likely find both a reflected light microscope (Olympus BHM?) and a transmitted light light microscope (Olympus BHT, Nikon Labophot etc.?) for under $1000. This would allow you to keep lights and camera mounts at the ready, with no hassle of change over. The two scopes probably won't even cost more than a single multi-method scope.

[75RR]

For excellent pdfs on setting up a camera on a microscope, details on his setup (an Olympus BH2) and beautiful images see the link to Charles' Website:

http://www.krebsmicro.com/

The Olympus models are quite robust and one forum member (Carl Hunsinger) has published very complete guides on maintenance and repair.

There is nothing quite like those guides for other microscopes - In my opinion they make the Olympus BH2 the clear front runner.

http://www.alanwood.net/photography/oly ... loads.html

[microb]

One thing to consider for photography is the working distance. Things are so much nicer if you can get LWD objectives or ULWD objectives. I got tired of worrying about hitting the metallurgical sample at higher magnifications. Also APO is a designation for an objective that does a better job with color. They cost more though.

So one thing you might want to research is LWD, ULWD and maybe even Mitutoyo objectives. There are others, like Achrovid but I haven't tried any of those.

[chas1745]

Gentlemen,
Thanks to all of you for your responses and information.

I'm rapidly realising that there is far more complexity to the subject than I had ever anticipated - it appears that whatever I do it is going to be a huge learning curve and the chances of buying the right microscope nigh on impossible. I'm now thinking I might have to stick with macro / extreme macro or perhaps buy something relatively cheap until my confidence grows or I abandon hope! Of course buy cheap equipment and the chances of good images even less.

A conundrum!

[apochronaut]

You mentioned using a Nikon objective but you didn't say which one. One thing you can do to improve your homebuilt macro setup is to improve your objective, since you already have a platform that you are pleased with. Getting out of the achromat class of objectives and getting in to fluorite or apochromat types will improve your photography much better than putting the money into a microscope, unless you are wanting to engage in microscopy. It sounds like photography is what you are after though. The only thing a microscope will do for you, is allow for increases in magnification but in order to combine those increases with a suitable level of image quality, you have to have the optics to go with it and then you will be in to some money. A single new,fine objective lens capable of the level of fine photographed image quality that most photographers would be looking for will cost as much as the entire microscope system you posted above.

I would recommend staying with your macro rig right now and look toward buying a set of used low power objectives with better corrections to use it with. A 4-5X, a 10X and a 20-25X. They need to be planapo and it doesn't matter which brand you choose. There are some good deals out there, especially if you stay away from the big names but the big names will get you there; just at more cost usually. A lot of people are using Mitutoyo objectives and there are cheaper knockoffs; Correct( Seiwa) is one.
There is better guidance at the photomacrography.net and amateurmicrography.net forums.

[microb]

Have you done the reverse a 50mm lens for macro photography. I bought lenses on ebay for $30. Many have threading for filters dented at that price, so check on that.

https://digital-photography-school.com/ ... -lesson-3/

[microb]

Please note that the complexity you mention just means it's a cool subject with a lot of space to expand.

Get a simple set up and find out what you like to use it for. No matter what you start with, you are still going to narrow down to something of interest and you'll want to adjust/upgrade this or that piece of equipment. So I'd suggest survey the subject matter for something you like: slides or surface samples, polarization techniques, lighting techniques -- whatever. Then upgrade as you go along.

[chas1745]

Hi All,

My existing platform consists of a 19mm thick steel plate, powder coated, slotted, drilled and threaded overall to allow me to add various accessories, flash guns, led lights, lifting platform etc etc etc. Weighs about 40lb unpopulated.
On the platform I mounted a WeMacro linear rail. I then built my own microcontroller based around an Arduino Mega and a BigEasydriver with a 3.5" tft touchscreen for user inputs, stepper control. I wrote the software which allows me to enter a host of parameters, e.g. Stepper angle, Leadscrew Pitch, Microstep (up to 1/64th), Step Delay (effectively speed), Flash delay (recharge time), Live or Test Run (shutter / no shutter, no delays etc), Lens type, Sensor, Frame Size, fStop.
Then I move the stepper via touchscreen to select and set the IN and OUT points. Once this is done the program calculates and displays the Depth of Field, the effective fStop, the Magnification, Distance of Travel, the number of Shutter actuations and the total number of Microsteps to be taken. The program also caters for any backlash if changes of direction took place in establishing the IN and OUT points of the run.
Once the RUN button pressed the sequence of steps is started, delays as input before / after each shutter, the steps and shutter count decrement until the OUT point is reached and the camera is then returned to the IN point ready for another Run or Return to the Home position.
I've mounted the platform on Sorbothane rubber feet to counter any vibrations.
I'm using a Canon 7D MKII and a Canon 5DMkIII but seriously thinking about getting a Fuji XT because of the huge shutter count I anticipate over the next year!
I have an MPE-65 macro lens, a Canon 180mm macro with a Nikon CFI Plan Achromat 10X mounted on the font (as yet untried), Canon FL bellows with Nikon 50mm f2.8 enlarger lens, an Olympus 20mm f3.5, reversed lenses and other odds and ends I've collected over the last year.
I'm assuming I can get to ~10x with the Nikon objective - hopefully, I'll be trying it out this coming weekend.
I've been told that going above 10x without a microscope is nigh on impossible, hence my joining this forum - so I was very interested with apochronaut's comments about the feasibility of using a 20x objective - this is something I will have to look at and may well convince me to stay with the platform I have - at least until I aspire to 40x!!!

Thanks to all for the information.

[Hobbyst46]

Hi All,
My existing platform consists of a....

A very impressive setup, sounds like a pro-, rather than amateur. With such knowledge, your way into microscopy - if you proceed with the hobby - will be easy. A lot of the fuss about used and new microscope originates from the challenge of maintaining or repairing the equipment.

[PeteM]

Gentlemen,
Thanks to all of you for your responses and information.

I'm rapidly realising that there is far more complexity to the subject than I had ever anticipated - it appears that whatever I do it is going to be a huge learning curve and the chances of buying the right microscope nigh on impossible. . .

I'd suggest you have a 95% chance of getting a terrific setup at half the cost you're willing to spend; depending only upon your willingness to spend a bit of time looking. Just look for one of the used Olympus microscopes noted below from a source that either lets you check it out or return it if it's bad. Check it out to make sure the objectives aren't scratched or clouded and the various mechanical movements are OK when you get it.

You might want to check out some of the images of Rob Berdan, Charles Krebs, and many others on this forum to see what subjects interest you the most.

If it's mostly reflected you want to try first, get something like an Olympus BHM, BHT, or BHS microscope with Neo DPlan (or NeoSPlan) or MDPlan or MSPlan objectives. You're most likely to find them on an Olympus BHM (BH2 series, M for metallurgical). You'll want the newer series as seen in this brochure sorts out the differences - and I think you'll want the Neo objectives capable of both brightfield and darkfield reflected illumination: http://www.alanwood.net/downloads/olymp ... ochure.pdf

Those objectives are also available in long working distance versions to give you more room for side lighting. The heads normally illuminate right through the lenses for brightfield and darkfield versions. These lenses, when put on a transmitted base (BHT or BHS), will also be good for viewing slides up to about 200x. After that you want different objectives corrected for cover slip use.

This will be a superb reflected scope at about a third to half the cost of a new Brunel. For example, there was a BHM missing a lamp and an objective (it had three) the other day on Ebay for $200. You should be able to find one fully equipped in great condition for under $1000.

If it's mostly transmitted images you want to take, start with something like an Olympus BHT or BHS (brighter light, more expensive) microscope with DPlan or SPlan (wider field, more expensive) objectives. The BHM won't work, because it doesn't have illumination from the base. The BHTU is OK, but the inward facing objective nosepiece isn't replaceable. As noted before, you may want two microscopes if you have the room. If you find a BHM affordably and equipped with good objectives, buy it.

The transmitted Olympus BH2 series (specifically BHT or BHS with replaceable nosepieces) should run $300 to $800 depending upon the optics and timing. Use Charles Kreb's site as a guide to how to equip and even expand this system to take amazing photos. It would also host all the Olympus Neo and M (metallurgical, reflected) objectives if you eventually want one scope to do everything.

So -- if you want both on one scope, get a used Olympus BHT or BHS with a replaceable nosepiece, so you can easily swap objectives and illumination systems. This scope will also hold its value, unlike any new microscope. You might want both a BHM (reflected only) and a BH-2/BHT/BHS/BHTU (all the same family of transmitted microscopes).

I'd start looking for an Olympus BHT (or BHS for more money) with DPlan or better objectives for slides. This will have interchangeable nosepieces, a robust and quality build, and a wide range of easily obtained options. Should be around $500 for a BHT (maybe $800 for a BHS) in excellent working condition.

There are similar scenarios available with Nikon Optiphot microscopes, but maybe with a bit more of a learning curve.

Fair enough, there are things to be learned. It all sounds like gobble-de-gook to begin. But there are also tremendous resources available to take you through it (such as the sites by Alan Wood, Charles Krebs, Carl Hunsinger, Rob Berdan, the many experts here, my own guide to used microscopes, etc. etc.).

Given your present setup (home-built controller etc.), you're clearly a sharp guy and capable of learning what you need in fairly short order. And there are millions of never-yet-seen and amazing images to be captured -- some by you -- from the micro world.