AO One-Ten 100x options

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gillyj
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AO One-Ten 100x options

#1 Post by gillyj » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:21 pm

Hi,

I’m looking to purchase a 100x objective for looking at mushroom spores using an AO one-ten microstar. Everything I’ve read says I’ll need a 100x oil. I looked at a couple AO/Reichert catalogs from the 80’s and saw a few 100x options listed (below). I’ld like to know . . .

1. Which of the objectives below would work best?
2. Are there any other 100x options not listed that would work well or better than those listed?
3. Is there a significant difference between 100x oil objectives listed below?
4. Would the 100x dry be useful for looking at spores or anything else?

Catalog Options
1079 - 100/1.25 N.A Oil Achromatic
1014 - 100/1.25 N.A Oil Planachromatic w/Iris
1311 - 100/1.25 N.A Oil Planachromatic
1867 - 100/.90 N.A Dry Planachromatic (for use w/o cover)

PeteM
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#2 Post by PeteM » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:31 pm

Member "Apochronaut" will have more information, but for starters:

1079 - 100/1.25 N.A Oil Achromatic - lower cost option, not as good as the advanced plan achro #1311
1014 - 100/1.25 N.A Oil Planachromatic w/Iris - iris is handy for darkfield
1311 - 100/1.25 N.A Oil Planachromatic - very good quality for a short barrel infinity AO
1867 - 100/.90 N.A Dry Planachromatic (for use w/o cover) - really meant for industrial (reflected) use - could be good with smears

The 1311 might be the one to start with among those choices - assuming transmitted light, slides with cover slips, and not yet a darkfield condenser capable of supporting 100x when oiled.

gillyj
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Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:50 am

Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#3 Post by gillyj » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:09 pm

PeteM wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:31 pm
Member "Apochronaut" will have more information, but for starters:

1079 - 100/1.25 N.A Oil Achromatic - lower cost option, not as good as the advanced plan achro #1311
1014 - 100/1.25 N.A Oil Planachromatic w/Iris - iris is handy for darkfield
1311 - 100/1.25 N.A Oil Planachromatic - very good quality for a short barrel infinity AO
1867 - 100/.90 N.A Dry Planachromatic (for use w/o cover) - really meant for industrial (reflected) use - could be good with smears

The 1311 might be the one to start with among those choices - assuming transmitted light, slides with cover slips, and not yet a darkfield condenser capable of supporting 100x when oiled.
Do you know if the #1014 or other lenses designated as "Oil with Iris" will work without a darkfield condenser? The scope I bought came with 5 lenses, one of which was a # 1016 (50x oil w/iris), but the scope was not fitted with the darkfield condenser. I didn't test the #1016 lens since I didn't have immersion oil. I'm also wondering - will the oil lenses will work if used without oil?

I'm looking on ebay and I don't see any #1311 lenses at this time, but there appear to be plenty of #1079 so I may grab one of those for now, and keep an eye open for the #1311 lens and a darkfield condenser.

PeteM
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#4 Post by PeteM » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:00 pm

The 1014 should work fine. It is also a good plan achro and with the iris opened wide, it will have the full numerical aperture and resolution. Only downside is that the iris might possibly be stuck - but you could return it in that case. I believe, but am not sure, that the 1311 is ever so slightly better an adv. plan achromat than the 1014. In any case, it should be better than the 1079 while is older and not plan.

Your 50x oil iris will also be fine.

For future info: https://user.xmission.com/~psneeley/Per ... ctives.htm

gillyj
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#5 Post by gillyj » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:41 am

I'm not that familiar with microscopes yet, so I hope this doesn't sound like a dumb question. When you say "the iris could possibly get stuck", are you referring to the iris below the stage or is there one in the objective lens?

PeteM
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#6 Post by PeteM » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:40 am

The one in the objective lens. I've had maybe half a dozen AO 50x or 100x oil iris objectives and have had one stuck. If you're buying from Ebay, just check the objective upon receipt and return it if it's stuck. Or, if it happens to be stuck open, consider it a regular 100x that should be priced accordingly.

BramHuntingNematodes
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#7 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:31 am

In darkfield you don't want any rays going into your objective except if they've struck the specimen. High power objectives frequently get so close that light starts sneaking in around the periphery. You can either grind out some funnel stops on your lathe, which are metal tubes you stick in your objective to block the periphery or, more conveniently, you could put an Iris on the lens. That way you don't have to unscrew the objective and dump out your funnel stop every time you want to go to brightfield plus you can adjust the Iris to block only the light you want and let as much of the sample light in as you can. Funnel stops, if you want to adjust those you have to break out the Swiss files.
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

apochronaut
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#8 Post by apochronaut » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:11 am

AO began evolving their first infinity corrected system beginning in the late 50's, when much of microscope technology was still in a pre-war state. Glass tech. was evolving too, so during the about 30 years they continued with that system, they frequently upgraded parts of the system in order to take advantage of newer innovations in glass, test procedures and manufacturing precision. In the late 70's or 80's, they started using a designation "advanced achromat" in order to set some of the newly developed objectives apart from some of the earlier engineering.
The earliest catalogues show one 100X objective, the # 1079 achromat. By the end, they had made at least 8 ; all 100X 1.25, except the one 100X .90. The #1079 continued in production until into the 90's. Around 1967, the first planachros came out and the # 1024 planachro showed up. Then the # 1027 acromat with iris, showed up and not too long after, the # 1014 planachro with iris showed up. Most iris equipped objectives are a standard objective, with an iris diaphragm worked into an air gap in the lens, so the performance of the iris version when the iris is wide open is the same as the version without iris. Both the 1027 and 1014 were unique designs and have better colour correction and planarity than the contemporary 100X objectives without an iris. The 1014 is fully plan across a 200 micron field, whereas the 1024 has a small amount of falloff after about 180 microns. The # 1014 was almost 3 times the price of the 1024 , so in the late 70's they built an improved 100X without iris, the cat.# 1029, in order to take advantage of a wider field. It is notable for having an extension out the back carrying the rear element, something they had to do because the glass was not yet available to allow so much required correction in such a short ( 34mm) barrel. A few years later they upgraded again, presumably partly due to some improved glass formulas and the # 1311 appeared. Later, a version of the 1029 , # 1129 appeared as part of the 1100 series of 34mm objectives, which were carried through the 45mm parfocal era until the end, primarily as parts and retrofits for older microscopes, as well as for some student scopes. Although developed later, the 1100 series are refined designs with less glass and and although they are quite good, are not improvements over the 1300 series.

In lists published in the 80's forward, AO referred to the earlier objectives as achromat and the later ones as advanced achromat.

Here is how they go.

1079. achromat. can take a funnel stop for DF but the stop must be removed for BF, otherwise the N.A. is lowered along with resolution. They thread in and out easily, unless I suppose one is in there for 10 years and possibly contaminated with dried up oil. early ones are narrow barrel with 7 rings. later ones the engraved broad barrel with one ring and the really late ones were painted.
1027. achromat with iris. slightly better performance than the above. almost as good as below. always engraved
1024 planachromat . plan and well edge corrected to about 18mm f.o.v. always engraved
1014 advanced planachromat with iris. superior colour correction and planarity. later ones were painted.
1029 advanced planachromat. plan to 20mm f.o.v. with superior colour correction heading into planfluorite territory. always engraved.
1311 advanced planachromat with again close to planfluor performance. Has a shorter w.d. than all those above, so slide prep. and cover glass thickness become very inportant with it but it does have the best image quality and planarity of them all, when properly used. later ones were painted but no extension at the rear.
1129. advanced planachromat. about the same performance as the 1029 but due to some advancements in technology, they were pretty inexpensive. much cheaper then the 1311. they always have painted barrels, so sometimes the paint is worn off. they also have the extension at the rear , like the 1029 but the 1029 was never painted.
1867 advanced planachromat but at .90 , intended for no cover use. these are excellent for quick dried blood smears for instance. n.a. is not low enough to be used with a DF condenser.

I've never had any problems with the irises on the 1027 , the 1014 or the 1016, for that matter. Only the occasional stiff iris , which always responds to 2-3 small drops of light oil ( let into the seam of the ring, top and bottom. I use a non gassing oil such as Nye PP269.

gillyj
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:50 am

Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#9 Post by gillyj » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:12 am

PeteM wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:40 am
The one in the objective lens. I've had maybe half a dozen AO 50x or 100x oil iris objectives and have had one stuck. If you're buying from Ebay, just check the objective upon receipt and return it if it's stuck. Or, if it happens to be stuck open, consider it a regular 100x that should be priced accordingly.
I have so much to learn. Until now, I wasn't aware that some lenses could have an iris built-in. I thought darkfield was only controlled with the iris on the condenser. And that lenses designated or stamped iris only worked with the iris condenser.

After reading this I looked at the 50x iris lens (#1016) that came with my microscope and realized a portion of the barrel could turn. I turned on the illuminator to about 25% power and looked in the ocular (with no slide) and turned the iris adjustment back and forth. I did notice it got dimmer and brighter as I turned it back and forth, but it wasn't a big difference. My microscope currently has the 1087 Abbe Condenser, 1091 Auxiliary swing-in condenser and a 1092 Condenser mount.

What is the correct way to test the objective iris it to see if it opens/closes all the way?

gillyj
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Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:50 am

Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#10 Post by gillyj » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:16 am

BramHuntingNematodes wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:31 am
In darkfield you don't want any rays going into your objective except if they've struck the specimen. High power objectives frequently get so close that light starts sneaking in around the periphery. You can either grind out some funnel stops on your lathe, which are metal tubes you stick in your objective to block the periphery or, more conveniently, you could put an Iris on the lens. That way you don't have to unscrew the objective and dump out your funnel stop every time you want to go to brightfield plus you can adjust the Iris to block only the light you want and let as much of the sample light in as you can. Funnel stops, if you want to adjust those you have to break out the Swiss files.
Thanks for the info on DF and funnel stops. DF looks interesting and I may give it a try, but I don't have a lathe, so I think I'll stick with the OEM setup. Once I have DF lenses, is the DF condenser (#1096) the only other item need for viewing DF, or do I need a different light (I have a 20W)?

BramHuntingNematodes
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#11 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:26 am

Remember you won't really need darkfield designated objectives until you get to na above .65-.8. For the 100x Iris in darkfield you want as much light as possible, I mean like a crazy amount of light maybe look into a heliostat array (I kid but just barely). There are no other accessories that are necessary, although being able to clean all your optics under a laminar flow hood, or just in a low dust environment in a pinch, is useful
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

BramHuntingNematodes
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#12 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:34 am

gillyj wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:12 am



What is the correct way to test the objective iris it to see if it opens/closes all the way?
Hold a flashlight directed through the screw end of the objective onto a piece of paper until you are projecting a little circle of light. You should be able to see the operation of the Iris this way (and check for delamination and cracks at the same time)
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

apochronaut
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#13 Post by apochronaut » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:34 pm

Those collars don't rotate very far to completely open or close the iris. On the older 50X and 100X achromats (#1026 and 1027), they rotate 45degrees. On the 1014 and 1016, it is closer to 50 degrees.

gillyj
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#14 Post by gillyj » Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:40 pm

apochronaut wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:11 am
AO began evolving their first infinity corrected system beginning in the late 50's, when much of microscope technology was still in a pre-war state. Glass tech. was evolving too, so during the about 30 years they continued with that system, they frequently upgraded parts of the system in order to take advantage of newer innovations in glass, test procedures and manufacturing precision. In the late 70's or 80's, they started using a designation "advanced achromat" in order to set some of the newly developed objectives apart from some of the earlier engineering.
The earliest catalogues show one 100X objective, the # 1079 achromat. By the end, they had made at least 8 ; all 100X 1.25, except the one 100X .90. The #1079 continued in production until into the 90's. Around 1967, the first planachros came out and the # 1024 planachro showed up. Then the # 1027 acromat with iris, showed up and not too long after, the # 1014 planachro with iris showed up. Most iris equipped objectives are a standard objective, with an iris diaphragm worked into an air gap in the lens, so the performance of the iris version when the iris is wide open is the same as the version without iris. Both the 1027 and 1014 were unique designs and have better colour correction and planarity than the contemporary 100X objectives without an iris. The 1014 is fully plan across a 200 micron field, whereas the 1024 has a small amount of falloff after about 180 microns. The # 1014 was almost 3 times the price of the 1024 , so in the late 70's they built an improved 100X without iris, the cat.# 1029, in order to take advantage of a wider field. It is notable for having an extension out the back carrying the rear element, something they had to do because the glass was not yet available to allow so much required correction in such a short ( 34mm) barrel. A few years later they upgraded again, presumably partly due to some improved glass formulas and the # 1311 appeared. Later, a version of the 1029 , # 1129 appeared as part of the 1100 series of 34mm objectives, which were carried through the 45mm parfocal era until the end, primarily as parts and retrofits for older microscopes, as well as for some student scopes. Although developed later, the 1100 series are refined designs with less glass and and although they are quite good, are not improvements over the 1300 series.

In lists published in the 80's forward, AO referred to the earlier objectives as achromat and the later ones as advanced achromat.

Here is how they go.

1079. achromat. can take a funnel stop for DF but the stop must be removed for BF, otherwise the N.A. is lowered along with resolution. They thread in and out easily, unless I suppose one is in there for 10 years and possibly contaminated with dried up oil. early ones are narrow barrel with 7 rings. later ones the engraved broad barrel with one ring and the really late ones were painted.
1027. achromat with iris. slightly better performance than the above. almost as good as below. always engraved
1024 planachromat . plan and well edge corrected to about 18mm f.o.v. always engraved
1014 advanced planachromat with iris. superior colour correction and planarity. later ones were painted.
1029 advanced planachromat. plan to 20mm f.o.v. with superior colour correction heading into planfluorite territory. always engraved.
1311 advanced planachromat with again close to planfluor performance. Has a shorter w.d. than all those above, so slide prep. and cover glass thickness become very inportant with it but it does have the best image quality and planarity of them all, when properly used. later ones were painted but no extension at the rear.
1129. advanced planachromat. about the same performance as the 1029 but due to some advancements in technology, they were pretty inexpensive. much cheaper then the 1311. they always have painted barrels, so sometimes the paint is worn off. they also have the extension at the rear , like the 1029 but the 1029 was never painted.
1867 advanced planachromat but at .90 , intended for no cover use. these are excellent for quick dried blood smears for instance. n.a. is not low enough to be used with a DF condenser.

I've never had any problems with the irises on the 1027 , the 1014 or the 1016, for that matter. Only the occasional stiff iris , which always responds to 2-3 small drops of light oil ( let into the seam of the ring, top and bottom. I use a non gassing oil such as Nye PP269.
Thanks for the detailed writeup on all the objectives, this should help tremendously. The iris on my objective seems to be turning back and forth ok for now. Is the Nye PP269 oil used for lubricating other parts of the microscope? I was think of getting some incase the iris collar does stick in the future or using it on other parts of the microscope, but didn't see that specific product number available on ebay or amazon. What is good source for this lubricant?

apochronaut
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#15 Post by apochronaut » Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:43 pm

I bought mine from TAI Lubricants who are Nye's small volume distributor. They shipped the hobby pack to me, which they still had a small stock of for a small shipping fee. The hobby pack, additionally contains a bottle of high viscosity oil and a tube of damping grease. I us it all but the light viscosity oil is more general purpose. Probably that oil will be pretty pricey for the one application
Those adjustment rings usually suffer tightness due to inactivity. It doesn't take much to get them working properly, once activated. Another option is shaver oil or watch oil. Possibly a local jeweller would put a couple of drops in there, if you thought it needed it. One or two very small drops only. No more.

BramHuntingNematodes
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#16 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:29 am

An good thing to remember is to not use 3 in 1, a common household oil, on moving machine parts. It is good for keeping saws from rusting as it forms a gummy film. For the same reason you should keep it away from your microscope (and sewing machine).
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

PeteM
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#17 Post by PeteM » Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:21 am

My understanding, perhaps wrong, is that 3-in-1 oil is a relatively pure light oil (e.g. similar to an SAE 10 weight or maybe an ISO 20 viscosity spindle oil). The original marketing was that it could clean, lubricate, and protect (which pretty much any pure oil will do). I had a can of the stuff, maybe 30 years old, and it hadn't turned to varnish. Reason I still had that can is that things like a pure 10 weight spindle or hydraulic oil are a whole lot cheaper to put in a proper oiling can. For the tiny cans, I tend to go with Starrett tool & instrument oil -- but it's pretty much the same consistency and composition as 3-in-1, Singer sewing machine oil, Norton oil, air tool oil, etc..

Any oil can gradually oxidize, faster with heat. The newer synthetics tend to be a bit more stable. And any oil can attract dust and become gummy. I'm not aware that 3-in-1 does it any faster. What it does do, through the miracle of marketing, is put a slightly larger hole in your wallet, per ounce of the stuff.

Now, WD-40 is another story -- and may be what you're thinking of? That actually does leave a sort of varnish behind, based on both reputation and personal testing of a dozen alternatives a decade plus back. Sadly, it's not all that good a rust protectant.

To some extent these branded products are a moving target. The 3-in-1 brand now includes other lubes and is now apparently owned by WD-40 company. The original formula WD-40 ("Water Displacing-40") MSDS has apparently changed over the years. Even Ronsonol lighter fluid, still decent for removing old microscope grease, is now a more California-environment-and-health-friendly but less effective solvent.

apochronaut
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Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am

Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#18 Post by apochronaut » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:29 pm

something like this is a good option. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Oster-Blade-Lu ... 53571409a4

you can do all the microscopes on yours and the next few blocks as well.

BramHuntingNematodes
Posts: 79
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Re: AO One-Ten 100x options

#19 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:35 pm

I use 3 in 1 all the time to coat my saws with. Its not a drying oil like linseed oil or tung oil, which will also remain liquid indefinitely in their containers, but it does leave a rime of yellow gum on any of the saw plates I don't use for a few weeks. I guess this is the "protect" part, and it is one of the characteristics of the oil I most value it for. I contrast this with Hoppe's, an oil marketed for guns but almost certainly just repackaged turbine oil. Hoppe's is less viscous and stays liquid. I have used this on the fine adjustment mechanism on my scope. Lithium grease is easy to obtain and so far has worked on the racks. A tiny bit of graphite anti-seize carefully applied to the threads of my objectives has also been a worthwhile addition. For the lathe, I use a golden machine oil.

WD-40 I don't recall leaving much or any residue. In fact, this is why I never use it as a lubricant-- it tends to disappear shortly after application. I haven't used it in a long time, so if the new formula has made it worse more's the pity.
1942 Bausch and Lomb Series T Dynoptic, Custom Illumination

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