Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

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Rorschach
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Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#1 Post by Rorschach » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:05 pm

I have never seen something like that. It has a hose coming out. Also note the peculiar white button on the hand rest of the base. Does anyone know what these could be?
Orthoplan_1.jpg
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Orthoplan_2.jpg
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Orthoplan_3.jpg
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daruosha
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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#2 Post by daruosha » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:29 pm

Fiber optic lighting for incident microscopy?
Daruosh.

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#3 Post by Rorschach » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:51 pm

daruosha wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:29 pm
Fiber optic lighting for incident microscopy?
Maybe. The hose does look somehow unfitting for that purpose, though. It looks like it's intended for liquids.

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#4 Post by Hobbyst46 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:53 pm

I would guess that the hose is there as part of a heating system. Perhaps the owner kept the nosepiece at a higher temperature than room temperature, maybe for work at 37C (live tissue/cells). Perhaps warm water was flowing or circulated (is there another hose end there ?). The water might have been supplied from a thermostatted (temperature-controlled) water bath. Looks weird though, there are are better ways to keep the scope warm...
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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#5 Post by daruosha » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:58 pm

Rorschach wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:51 pm
daruosha wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:29 pm
Fiber optic lighting for incident microscopy?
Maybe. The hose does look somehow unfitting for that purpose, though. It looks like it's intended for liquids.
It looks like something for liquid transportation :) but you need a separate inlet and outlet for any fluid. Based on this assumption, i bet on fiber optics :D I could be totally wrong.
Daruosh.

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#6 Post by daruosha » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:01 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:53 pm
I would guess that the hose is there as part of a heating system. Perhaps the owner kept the nosepiece at a higher temperature than room temperature, maybe for work at 37C (live tissue/cells). Perhaps warm water was flowing or circulated (is there another hose end there ?). The water might have been supplied from a thermostatted (temperature-controlled) water bath. Looks weird though, there are are better ways to keep the scope warm...
That's also plausible, but why do you want to keep your nosepiece warm? Warm stage? Yes, but warm nosepiece.. hum...
Daruosh.

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#7 Post by Hobbyst46 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:38 pm

daruosha wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:01 pm
Hobbyst46 wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:53 pm
I would guess that the hose is there as part of a heating system. Perhaps the owner kept the nosepiece at a higher temperature than room temperature, maybe for work at 37C (live tissue/cells). Perhaps warm water was flowing or circulated (is there another hose end there ?). The water might have been supplied from a thermostatted (temperature-controlled) water bath. Looks weird though, there are are better ways to keep the scope warm...
That's also plausible, but why do you want to keep your nosepiece warm? Warm stage? Yes, but warm nosepiece.. hum...
I have never done or seen this supposedly warming arrangement, but imagine that a slide- or a petri dish or other sample - must be kept warm (cells at 37C or whatever). A massive objective that touches it conducts the heat away and interferes or prevents thermal steady state. This can be remedied by independently warming up the objectives (through the nosepiece turret) to the same temperature. Just my guesses, might be totally wrong... and maybe it was cold water, not warm water, to keep the objective cold;
Besides live cells, if someone ran some on-slide crystallization experiments, a controlled-temperature objective might have been valuable...
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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#8 Post by apochronaut » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:23 pm

This is a vertically illuminated microscope. The head has .8X adapter for the Leitz epi or verically illuminated system. The hose looks to be a gas carrying hose; something to either warm or cool or even provide some other form of purge necessary to view whatever the materials the microscope was applied to viewing. What is actually up inside that large port?

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#9 Post by MicroBob » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:46 am

As far as I know Leitz was much more willing to develop and build special components than Zeiss. So assembling an Ortholux or Orthoplan collection is quite a task! :shock:
I have never seen this attatchmend before. Dorons idea of tempering for 37°C, perhaps in combination with an objective that is pressed directly on the tissue, is probably the most likely. Other ideas could be cooling of an objective that is used with high power mercury illumination or heating an objective so no condensation forms.
Or just oil immersion on the press of a button!

Bob

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#10 Post by Rorschach » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:03 am

Interesting ideas! :D The scope is on its way to me from Germany so in a couple weeks I will be able to take a proper look and more pics.

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#11 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:00 pm

MicroBob wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:46 am
Or just oil immersion on the press of a button!
Bob, this may be a lead. For inverted scopes and long-term observations - e.g. when one studies live cells in a stage incubator - immersion oil is a problem when needed. Because the oil slowly drips down and disappears from the space between the slide bottom and the objective. This is more problematic at 37C because the warmer the oil, the lower its viscosity becomes. So a possible remedy is a pump that feeds oil throughout the observation.
On the other hand, this is less of a problem (maybe!) on an upright microscope, since the oil drips on the slide and not down the objective...
Hmm... weird ideas.
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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#12 Post by apochronaut » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:40 pm

The objectives appear to be types of high magnification no cover objectives. One visible says 160X. Where the hose is connected , there is a large central screw supporting what looks to be the housing of some rotary device. Whatever that hose carries, it would seem that it is integral to the operation of that device, since it enters that housing .
If it was liquid, one would think that the hose would enter at the top of the housing. If a gas or air , especially if warmed, it would likely enter at the bottom. There is also the possibility that the hose carries a slight vacuum. Whatever it is, since the hose is so long, it would seem that whatever it is carrying must be supplied by a remote and quite large device. Gas cylinder, pump? If the hose is designed to provide some warmed material, the lack of insulation and length would seem to imply that was not the case and there seems to be no electrical connection to the modified objective for it to supply it's own heat.

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#13 Post by MichaelG. » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:51 pm

My guess is that it could be an indenter

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#14 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:54 pm

apochronaut wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:40 pm
The objectives appear to be types of high magnification no cover objectives. One visible says 160X. Where the hose is connected , there is a large central screw supporting what looks to be the housing of some rotary device.
Yes, the fact (??) that there is just one hose votes against circulation.
Could it be a pneumatic rotation device ? pneumatic rotation of the nosepiece, commanded by an electropneumatic valve that is controlled by software ? a primitive motorized nosepiece, years prior to modern motorized nosepieces ? although these hose connections would barely withstand a pressure of 3-4 bar...
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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#15 Post by Rorschach » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:55 pm

This is like a conundrum that is shrouded by mystery and wrapped in enigma :D Interesting speculations, even quite logical ones!

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#16 Post by 75RR » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:29 pm

I am going to add my guess to all the others and say ... vacuum activated thingy!
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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#17 Post by apochronaut » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:37 pm

MichaelG. wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:51 pm
My guess is that it could be an indenter

MichaelG.
yes. pneumatic indenter does make sense. That port isn't a lens system. There is something up inside there, that looks metallic.


Maybe it's an early tonometer???? ah hah ! The patient puts their head on the stage and that thing comes down, contacts and centers the eyeball, a pulse of air comes down the tube sending the pressure sensor onto the eyeball, and voila!....you have.....you have....uhhhh.....blindness. That was almost too easy to figure out.

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#18 Post by Hobbyst46 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:49 pm

So guys already added air pressure automation to the Orthoplan, but I am not sure they included the turret.

Journal of Immunological Methods, 7 (1975) 255--270 © North-Holland Publishing Company, Amsterdam -- Printed in The Netherlands
INEXPENSIVE AUTOMATION OF THE LEITZ ORTHOPLAN MICROFLUOROMETER USING PNEUMATIC COMPONENTS

J.J. HAAIJMAN and F.A.C. WIJNANTS
Institute for Experimental Gerontology of the Organization for Health Research TNO, 151, Lange Kleiweg, Rijswijk (ZH), The Netherlands (Received 20 November 1974, accepte


Pneumatics are great sometimes, but add vibrations...
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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#19 Post by Sabatini » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:43 pm

Kristallisationsmikroskop nach Lehmann, Voigt & Hochgesang, Göttingen, ca. 1900
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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#20 Post by Sabatini » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:47 pm

The great-great-grandfather.
;)

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#21 Post by Rorschach » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:07 am

Sabatini wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:47 pm
The great-great-grandfather.
;)
Heh :D You could be on to something here. I can't wait to get the scope here and examine it a little more!

It seems like those objectives are pretty high quality as well, if I have understood correctly. And apparently that infinity 0.8x nosepiece isn't very common. If all of those are in good condition, this scope will turn out to be quite the bargain! Even if not, I will still be able to get a lot of parts (XY-table, lamphouse, maybe condenser, binocular) for completing the other, super-nice and refurbished stand. So even if I lose, I win :lol:

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#22 Post by Scarodactyl » Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:15 pm

I assume from seeing a 160x and infinity objectives on an orthoplan that this was an industrial/metallurgical setup? Are those non-coverglass objectives?

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#23 Post by Rorschach » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:48 pm

Scarodactyl wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:15 pm
I assume from seeing a 160x and infinity objectives on an orthoplan that this was an industrial/metallurgical setup? Are those non-coverglass objectives?
They seem to be epi-objectives, yes. Also apochronaut thought so. I was able to find the Pl 160x/0.95 and the Pl 32x/0.5 from a Leitz catalog on objectives. The code numbers did not match however. Maybe these are lenses from a different era than the ones in the catalog (Image-forming and illuminating systems of the microscope 512-99a).

The markings of the other two lenses are not visible in the pics. Have to wait to get the scope.

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#24 Post by Rorschach » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:09 pm

The enigmatic mystery of the apparatus is solved: it is a hardness tester. Apparently also known as an indenter. So MichaelG was right.

I found the following:
Leitz_metalloplan_hardness_tester.jpg
Leitz_metalloplan_hardness_tester.jpg (147.23 KiB) Viewed 1804 times

..in here: https://www.leitz-ortholux.de/pdf/metalloplan_6x6.pdf

So, looks like I have a Metalloplan :shock:

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#25 Post by Scarodactyl » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:43 pm

Awesome! Not to state the obvious too much, but this could be a great rig for reflected light work. Even if they're meant for coaxial illumination, 1mm of working distance is enough to use a fiber optic gooseneck to pump some light onto a more three-diemnsional subject, and it's a whole different world of imagery.

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#26 Post by MichaelG. » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:53 pm

Rorschach wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:09 pm
So, looks like I have a Metalloplan :shock:
Lucky You !!

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#27 Post by Hobbyst46 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:02 pm

With the riddle solved, we can turn all our time and energy to free the globe of the strangle covid-19... :roll:
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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#28 Post by Scarodactyl » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:38 pm

Use the indenter to smash them, one by one!

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Re: Strange apparatus on Leitz Orthoplan nosepiece?

#29 Post by Rorschach » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:22 am

:lol: At least that would pass the time.

Yes, it will be interesting to use it. Never had a coaxial compound before. If the specs I found for the objectives are correct, the high power ones don't have much working distance so shining incident light from the side probably is difficult.

Anyways, this is another testament to the modularity and incredible versatility of the Orthoplan platform! I feel confident that I made the right choice.

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