Hi gang. My first post. Thrilled to be here.
After much research I discovered that the American Optics Series 10 microscopes are not condenser adjustable!?! According to the instruction manual they are adjusted at the factory.
I believe this to be true because when I tried to switch condensers in order to make my “super scope” neither worked. Light source on both scopes was barely in the field of view and for the life of me I could see no way of adjusting it. This explains why I could find no info on how to adjust condensers on these scopes.
However, we read how people are consistently changing condensers on their scopes. AO’s I believe. Is there a way to adjust condensers on AO scopes or not? If not, how did they do it at the factory?
Thanks for any help anyone may be able to give me in shedding some light on this subject (no pun intended).
AO Abbe Condensers-Microstar
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apochronaut
- Posts: 6324
- Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am
Re: AO Abbe Condensers-Microstar
AO and the marketing moniker Reichert were quite modular from the introduction of the early 60's infinity microscopes( the student scopes and the 10) up until the last 410 or ATC 2000 was made branded Leica . Throughout the the years, the various scopes had various set ups , depending on how much you wanted to pay.
The condensers available for the 10 were the # 1088 abbe 1.25, the # 1084 abbe aspheric 1.25, the 1242 achromat aplanat and the # 2110 1.30 achromat aplanat. The latter two require a phase type of diaphragm housing in order to use them and the main BF two, require a standard dovetail housing , such as had been made for the 15/35 series and the 2/4 as well. You can for instance use the 1.30 achromat aplanat or a 1.40 achromat aplanat from the series 4 Apostar too because the diphragm body/mount is so similar to that used on the 10.... if you can find one. The centering screws were part of the condenser diaphragm housing on all of the systems that used that dovetail. You could buy either the centerable type housing or the simple non-centerable type housing. If the latter was chosen, the condenser would or should be pre-centered by virtue of loosening the 2 screws that hold the condenser dovetail mount and centering it with the condenser on board. It would be assumed that if the pre-centered condenser was chosen that there would not be another condenser alternately used, otherwise one would have to remove the stage, loosen the screws, center the other condenser, then back again, unless one was lucky enough to find two condensers that were parcentered. DF and phase condensers have built in centering screws.
In all cases, irregardless of the type of condenser mount, the condenser was also fitted to a sliding dovetail rail, with which to focus the condenser right up to stage level and beyond, if for some reason that was needed. All the bells and whistles one would need on a condenser mount could be fitted to the dovetail, except for a fine focus, which was discontinued with the aborting of the series 5 production in the 50's.
Reference to "adjusted at the factory" means that standard models, without a centering condenser mount have been pre-adjusted to center the condenser. Fitting another condenser, could easily throw the centering off but you still should be able to focus it.
If you desire to experiment with condensers on one of those, you need to acquire a mount like this one , with built in centering screws.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-O-Microscope ... SwItddmNTI However, the thread for the condenser section is unique( 1 1/2") and it will be a bit of a job to adapt another condenser, other than an AO to it . I'm sure adaptions can be made though. The only native condensers that fit the 10 in the standard diaphragm 1 1/2" mount are the 1088 1.25 abbe and the 1084 1.25 abbe aspheric. There are three others from the series 2/4 era as well, and the practice in those days was to not put the cat.# on the parts, just the specs. They are marked as 1.40 WIDE ANGLE SL.TH.1.25, 1.30 ACHROMAT and 1.40 ACHROMAT but with that very wide 1 1/2"male thread. Other, older ones exist similarly marked that were made for other , older, microscope models.
There are also phase mounts , which can be used for BF as well. There is the carousel or rotary type like this one, # 1240.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AO-American-Op ... SwfBFepzqv
There is also a sliding type which accepts only one phase annulus, # 1241. Each of those uses a lens section with a 1" thread and have built in centering screws. They are not limited to phase and can be used for BF and theoretically with DF stops. Condensers available for those are # 1242, which is a phase condenser normally used dry but some use it as an oil type. N.A. might be in the 1.3 range oiled but about .90 or so dry. It is an achromat. #2110 is a 1.30 achromat aplanat, that was used mainly for DIC and fluorescence. The # 1087 abbe aspheric will work as well but you may have to adjust the height a little. Then there is the # 1201, .90 achromat aplanat and the # 1973 1.4 N.A. achromat aplanat from the series 400. All those have a 1" thread and will fit those two phase condenser diaphragm housings.
The condensers available for the 10 were the # 1088 abbe 1.25, the # 1084 abbe aspheric 1.25, the 1242 achromat aplanat and the # 2110 1.30 achromat aplanat. The latter two require a phase type of diaphragm housing in order to use them and the main BF two, require a standard dovetail housing , such as had been made for the 15/35 series and the 2/4 as well. You can for instance use the 1.30 achromat aplanat or a 1.40 achromat aplanat from the series 4 Apostar too because the diphragm body/mount is so similar to that used on the 10.... if you can find one. The centering screws were part of the condenser diaphragm housing on all of the systems that used that dovetail. You could buy either the centerable type housing or the simple non-centerable type housing. If the latter was chosen, the condenser would or should be pre-centered by virtue of loosening the 2 screws that hold the condenser dovetail mount and centering it with the condenser on board. It would be assumed that if the pre-centered condenser was chosen that there would not be another condenser alternately used, otherwise one would have to remove the stage, loosen the screws, center the other condenser, then back again, unless one was lucky enough to find two condensers that were parcentered. DF and phase condensers have built in centering screws.
In all cases, irregardless of the type of condenser mount, the condenser was also fitted to a sliding dovetail rail, with which to focus the condenser right up to stage level and beyond, if for some reason that was needed. All the bells and whistles one would need on a condenser mount could be fitted to the dovetail, except for a fine focus, which was discontinued with the aborting of the series 5 production in the 50's.
Reference to "adjusted at the factory" means that standard models, without a centering condenser mount have been pre-adjusted to center the condenser. Fitting another condenser, could easily throw the centering off but you still should be able to focus it.
If you desire to experiment with condensers on one of those, you need to acquire a mount like this one , with built in centering screws.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/A-O-Microscope ... SwItddmNTI However, the thread for the condenser section is unique( 1 1/2") and it will be a bit of a job to adapt another condenser, other than an AO to it . I'm sure adaptions can be made though. The only native condensers that fit the 10 in the standard diaphragm 1 1/2" mount are the 1088 1.25 abbe and the 1084 1.25 abbe aspheric. There are three others from the series 2/4 era as well, and the practice in those days was to not put the cat.# on the parts, just the specs. They are marked as 1.40 WIDE ANGLE SL.TH.1.25, 1.30 ACHROMAT and 1.40 ACHROMAT but with that very wide 1 1/2"male thread. Other, older ones exist similarly marked that were made for other , older, microscope models.
There are also phase mounts , which can be used for BF as well. There is the carousel or rotary type like this one, # 1240.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AO-American-Op ... SwfBFepzqv
There is also a sliding type which accepts only one phase annulus, # 1241. Each of those uses a lens section with a 1" thread and have built in centering screws. They are not limited to phase and can be used for BF and theoretically with DF stops. Condensers available for those are # 1242, which is a phase condenser normally used dry but some use it as an oil type. N.A. might be in the 1.3 range oiled but about .90 or so dry. It is an achromat. #2110 is a 1.30 achromat aplanat, that was used mainly for DIC and fluorescence. The # 1087 abbe aspheric will work as well but you may have to adjust the height a little. Then there is the # 1201, .90 achromat aplanat and the # 1973 1.4 N.A. achromat aplanat from the series 400. All those have a 1" thread and will fit those two phase condenser diaphragm housings.
Re: AO Abbe Condensers-Microstar
Hi apochronaut,
Thank you so much for your help. I got your message on the phase slider and had to do a few hours of research on phase microphotography just to figure out what it was and what you were talking about. I have a lot to learn about microscopes.
I originally had a light microscope and stereoscope and thought it would be nice to have some up at the lake as well so I bought two more. The light microscopes are identical but had differing parts in quality so I decided to combine one into a better scope by combining the best parts into one (that one would stay home and be used the most while the other would go up to the lake). I thought that was a good plan and that it would be relatively simple to do. I am discovering that is not the case.
I took the plan-achro objectives off the one scope and the 1084 aspheric condenser and put them on the scope with the trinoc head (I hope to get into microphotography). When I did so BOTH condensers were off. So I put everything back and now one scope is lined up and works fine but the other is out of alignment?! I cannot figure out how this is possible. Before putting everything back to the original condition I realized that it would have been much easier to simply switch the heads giving me the same results. So I did. However, that did not work either!!! No light in either scope. Back to the drawing board. So at present I have one scope that works (the one with the better obj.lenses and aspheric condenser) and one that is still out of alignment (the one with the trinocular head).
I will check your links and learn what I can. It sounds like the best option would be to get an adjustable mount so that adjusting condensers would be fast and simple. I’ve never seen a scope that didn’t have a couple adjusting screws. Until now with these AO’s. Incredibly poor design to my mind.
The other condenser says it is N.A. 1.25 but has no other identifying marks so I am not sure what’s up with that. It sure looks like AO in every other way.
So I can adjust this scope? Not sure I understand your instructions. Something about taking off the stage? These things are built like brick houses, so I don’t understand how simply removing and replacing the condenser could knock it out of alignment.
If you could describe how to do this in detail, step by step, that would be most appreciated. This can’t be rocket science. But it sure is more complicated than I imagined. Why didn’t switching the heads work?
Thanks again Phil. You really went out of your way in explaining things. I will have to reread your message a few times and hope it all sinks in. With a little more research hopefully I can figure this out.
Thank you so much for your help. I got your message on the phase slider and had to do a few hours of research on phase microphotography just to figure out what it was and what you were talking about. I have a lot to learn about microscopes.
I originally had a light microscope and stereoscope and thought it would be nice to have some up at the lake as well so I bought two more. The light microscopes are identical but had differing parts in quality so I decided to combine one into a better scope by combining the best parts into one (that one would stay home and be used the most while the other would go up to the lake). I thought that was a good plan and that it would be relatively simple to do. I am discovering that is not the case.
I took the plan-achro objectives off the one scope and the 1084 aspheric condenser and put them on the scope with the trinoc head (I hope to get into microphotography). When I did so BOTH condensers were off. So I put everything back and now one scope is lined up and works fine but the other is out of alignment?! I cannot figure out how this is possible. Before putting everything back to the original condition I realized that it would have been much easier to simply switch the heads giving me the same results. So I did. However, that did not work either!!! No light in either scope. Back to the drawing board. So at present I have one scope that works (the one with the better obj.lenses and aspheric condenser) and one that is still out of alignment (the one with the trinocular head).
I will check your links and learn what I can. It sounds like the best option would be to get an adjustable mount so that adjusting condensers would be fast and simple. I’ve never seen a scope that didn’t have a couple adjusting screws. Until now with these AO’s. Incredibly poor design to my mind.
The other condenser says it is N.A. 1.25 but has no other identifying marks so I am not sure what’s up with that. It sure looks like AO in every other way.
So I can adjust this scope? Not sure I understand your instructions. Something about taking off the stage? These things are built like brick houses, so I don’t understand how simply removing and replacing the condenser could knock it out of alignment.
If you could describe how to do this in detail, step by step, that would be most appreciated. This can’t be rocket science. But it sure is more complicated than I imagined. Why didn’t switching the heads work?
Thanks again Phil. You really went out of your way in explaining things. I will have to reread your message a few times and hope it all sinks in. With a little more research hopefully I can figure this out.
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apochronaut
- Posts: 6324
- Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am
Re: AO Abbe Condensers-Microstar
Actually, all microscope companies make lower end models with pre-centered condensers, not just AO. One of the reasons for this is in certain applications, it is actually a better design. In schools especially where multiple individuals are using the microscope, there would be various knob and screw twiddlers , so the microscope would be constantly out of alignment. There is no need to have an adjustable condenser, if only BF is being used and the application is a simple one such as scholastic. Having a fixed centered condenser relieves the teacher of having to be spending time realigning things and where there is a budget, it makes for a less expensive microscope. A brand new microscope is an expensive purchase and when 20 or 30 of them are being bought, saving 40 or 50 bucks on each one, makes a difference. A lot of the series 10s available on the used market are ex school scopes. Probably, you should have looked for one that was set up for a more professional use.
As for your current predicament. It isn't normal for the condenser to be out of alignment when removed and replaced , so I suspect that the condenser is not in proper registration. There is a groove in the condenser body that engages with a locating tab in the yoke. Those two must engage and the condenser will lock into place and achieve it's predictable alignment. Then tighten the thumbscrew on the right. Either that, or the actual condenser mount has loosened over the years; something I have never seen but is possible. Check and see if the yoke will wiggle back and forth. If it does , you will have to align it and tighten those two large screws on the top of the dovetail slide. The stage comes off easily by 1) remove objectives. 2) back off focus 3) undo the hex stop screw on top of the dovetail, if it is still there. Often it has been removed. It is best done with a 1/4" drive ratchet fitted with a torx or hex bit. 4) unlock the stage with the large cast aluminum lever to the left. 5) lift the stage off the dovetail.
You mention , no light in either scope? There are couple of things that are easy to over look. 1) make sure the trinocular head is switched over to the eyepieces. 2) make sure the iris diaphragms in the condensers are open 3) Make sure the condensers are racked up close to the stage.
It's best to do preliminary adjustments with the 10X objective . Further refinements can be made with other objectives.
As for your current predicament. It isn't normal for the condenser to be out of alignment when removed and replaced , so I suspect that the condenser is not in proper registration. There is a groove in the condenser body that engages with a locating tab in the yoke. Those two must engage and the condenser will lock into place and achieve it's predictable alignment. Then tighten the thumbscrew on the right. Either that, or the actual condenser mount has loosened over the years; something I have never seen but is possible. Check and see if the yoke will wiggle back and forth. If it does , you will have to align it and tighten those two large screws on the top of the dovetail slide. The stage comes off easily by 1) remove objectives. 2) back off focus 3) undo the hex stop screw on top of the dovetail, if it is still there. Often it has been removed. It is best done with a 1/4" drive ratchet fitted with a torx or hex bit. 4) unlock the stage with the large cast aluminum lever to the left. 5) lift the stage off the dovetail.
You mention , no light in either scope? There are couple of things that are easy to over look. 1) make sure the trinocular head is switched over to the eyepieces. 2) make sure the iris diaphragms in the condensers are open 3) Make sure the condensers are racked up close to the stage.
It's best to do preliminary adjustments with the 10X objective . Further refinements can be made with other objectives.
Re: AO Abbe Condensers-Microstar
Ok Phil. Thanks so much for your help. I will dig a little deeper and see what I can swing. At least I have gotten myself to the point where I am tracking and understanding your info and advice.
So if I switch heads the eyepieces have to be switched to stay with the original scope? Never would have thought of that.
I will keep you posted on my progress (or lack of). Thanks again Phil. Cant describe in words how much I appreciate your input, expertise, and help!!!
So if I switch heads the eyepieces have to be switched to stay with the original scope? Never would have thought of that.
I will keep you posted on my progress (or lack of). Thanks again Phil. Cant describe in words how much I appreciate your input, expertise, and help!!!
Re: AO Abbe Condensers-Microstar
If I remember correctly, phase objectives can be used for BF?
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apochronaut
- Posts: 6324
- Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am
Re: AO Abbe Condensers-Microstar
Eyepieces are often designated for a specific system, and matched to certain objectives. With the series 10 , the only 10X eyepieces that should be used are # 177, # 176 or # 176A. They don't need to in the original heads.
I don't remember eyepieces being part of your problems, it was condenser centering and lack of illumination.
Phase objectives will produce an image when used for BF but it will be slightly degraded due to the presence of the retardation plate or phase annulus. A slightly fuzzy image with a loss of contrast are typical. If phase objectives are all you have, then so be it but for better imaging in BF, it would be wise to get a dedicated BF set.
I don't remember eyepieces being part of your problems, it was condenser centering and lack of illumination.
Phase objectives will produce an image when used for BF but it will be slightly degraded due to the presence of the retardation plate or phase annulus. A slightly fuzzy image with a loss of contrast are typical. If phase objectives are all you have, then so be it but for better imaging in BF, it would be wise to get a dedicated BF set.
Re: AO Abbe Condensers-Microstar
apochronaut wrote: ↑Fri May 15, 2020 5:09 pmEyepieces are often designated for a specific system, and matched to certain objectives. With the series 10 , the only 10X eyepieces that should be used are # 177, # 176 or # 176A. They don't need to in the original heads.
I don't remember eyepieces being part of your problems, it was condenser centering and lack of illumination.
Phase objectives will produce an image when used for BF but it will be slightly degraded due to the presence of the retardation plate or phase annulus. A slightly fuzzy image with a loss of contrast are typical. If phase objectives are all you have, then so be it but for better imaging in BF, it would be wise to get a dedicated BF set.
Hi Phil. I swapped the eyepieces and as suspected, nothing happened. Both sets are identical (cat. #176’s) so that made perfect sense. Did not think it was an eyepiece issue.
I am not quite comprehending how the fork can move left to right (the cone of light appears to be just right of center, can see the slightest part of it in the field of view) from the design of the scope but it must be so, otherwise how would they do so at the factory? And I trust your advise as well. Will give this a try and keep you posted.
Would love to have a phase scope but it is too expensive and more trouble than its worth. Wouldnt use it enough to qualify setting up. If Oliver doesnt need one I certainly dont. Thanks Phil. This adventure is actually kind of fun. I love learning.
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apochronaut
- Posts: 6324
- Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 12:15 am
Re: AO Abbe Condensers-Microstar
still sounds like your condenser isn't locked into registration. When properly installed the little groove just under the iris diaphragm housing should be facing straight to the rear. When you install the condenser you have to wiggle it a bit sometimes and then it settles into registration by slipping rearwards a bit onto the registration pin. if it is tightened by the lockscrew when not properly registered, it will push the condenser to the far left, which shows up in the field as off center to the right.
are you sure it has been engaged on the registration pin?
are you sure it has been engaged on the registration pin?
Re: AO Abbe Condensers-Microstar
Phil, I figured things out, thanks to your help!!! Took me all day. Learned a lot about these scopes. Including the trinoc thing so I was able to combine the best features of both scopes into one.
At first it seemed impossible to adjust without completely disassembling the stage in order to get at the screws on the condenser fork, and I almost went to far to get it apart. Could have had ball bearings rolling all over the place. Fortunately I was able to get at the screws tight enough at a bad angle to adjust the condenser and then take it all off to tighten the screws adequately. It was necessary to take it apart exactly as you described in order to loosen the screws without stripping them. I just knew there had to be a better way than adjusting and reassembling everytime to check. The guys at the factory would have gone crazy
I bought that condenser that you provided the link for so I should be good to go. One scope is slightly off and being a perfectionist I will probably put it in that scope. Too burned out to go thru all that again.
Thanks again for all your help Phil. You really went out of your way writing a lot of information to help me, and it was all useful. Every bit of it. You must have been a teacher in a former life. I’ll think about your consideration and generosity everytime I look thru those scopes!!!
At first it seemed impossible to adjust without completely disassembling the stage in order to get at the screws on the condenser fork, and I almost went to far to get it apart. Could have had ball bearings rolling all over the place. Fortunately I was able to get at the screws tight enough at a bad angle to adjust the condenser and then take it all off to tighten the screws adequately. It was necessary to take it apart exactly as you described in order to loosen the screws without stripping them. I just knew there had to be a better way than adjusting and reassembling everytime to check. The guys at the factory would have gone crazy
I bought that condenser that you provided the link for so I should be good to go. One scope is slightly off and being a perfectionist I will probably put it in that scope. Too burned out to go thru all that again.
Thanks again for all your help Phil. You really went out of your way writing a lot of information to help me, and it was all useful. Every bit of it. You must have been a teacher in a former life. I’ll think about your consideration and generosity everytime I look thru those scopes!!!