Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

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trala
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Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

#1 Post by trala » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:12 pm

Hello, I would like to ask you one question.

We have reflective microscope where we can see LCD TFT structure without problem. But there are some TVs where we have problems to see it. Just after iris open is minimum and it is not very good visible. We know that it is not problem of ccd sensor. It must be problem between lamp and objective.

I think there is absorb layer as in "ultra black" technology in samsung. Do you have some experiences with this problem?

Or do you have some suggestions how to solve it?

Thank you

Sir
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:58 am

Re: Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

#2 Post by Sir » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:28 am

I don't know much about the topic, but it would be helpful if you could provide the model numbers of the panels you are comparing, and some information on your microscope settings / how you are observing the panels. That might help point us in the right direction.

Just a thought, but one thing to consider is that some TV panels use polarising films (sometimes multiple layers of it) which could inhibit the view. If you have a polariser/ND filter in your microscope you can try removing it or rotating the subject to see if it makes any difference.

trala
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Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:04 pm

Re: Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

#3 Post by trala » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:47 am

Sorry for poor details.

We have very poor microscope for this purpose. There is possible to set up just iris and dim light.

Here are some details:

1. We know that it is not problem with polarizer, bcz if we have some models with another polarization it is enough to change direction of LCD cell from X to Y axis.
2. One difference against other models is that it contains something like this https://www.samsung.com/global/tv/news/ ... echnology/
3. We have another reflective microscope were we can see structure very well, but parts of microscope cannot be changed between each other.

But we cannot find where can be problem, in which part.

So I would like to ask you what can be the problem?

a. light source = lamp? can it be caused by another wavelenght of light. Angle of light coming to cell is the same 90 degrees.
b. some special filter?
c. objective?

Thanks

Scarodactyl
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Re: Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

#4 Post by Scarodactyl » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:26 am

Please give some more specific details about the one that works and the one that doesn't.
This is an interesting problem. I would like to know more.

MichaelG.
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Location: NorthWest England

Re: Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

#5 Post by MichaelG. » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:52 am

From the linked article:
.
Samsung Black
Samsung Black
12B1827A-F109-46BA-AA7A-56BFD9B3B59B.jpeg (117.87 KiB) Viewed 308 times
.

I’m sure this is the essence of the problem
... Photographing through that surface, using an external light-source, should [ by design] be almost impossible.

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

trala
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Re: Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

#6 Post by trala » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:15 am

Ok, I am sharing some settings with you.

Images 12, 16, 22 are for microscope with more settings,there is possible to see structure.

And images 66, 84, 87 are for microscope with setting just for iris and dim light.
Attachments
IMG_20200701_083435_resize_22.jpg
IMG_20200701_083435_resize_22.jpg (44.78 KiB) Viewed 306 times
IMG_20200701_083416_resize_12.jpg
IMG_20200701_083416_resize_12.jpg (55.92 KiB) Viewed 306 times
IMG_20200701_083505_resize_16.jpg
IMG_20200701_083505_resize_16.jpg (53.16 KiB) Viewed 306 times
Last edited by trala on Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

trala
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Re: Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

#7 Post by trala » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:16 am

Rest images.
Attachments
IMG_20200701_084209_resize_87.jpg
IMG_20200701_084209_resize_87.jpg (44.35 KiB) Viewed 305 times
IMG_20200701_084114_resize_84.jpg
IMG_20200701_084114_resize_84.jpg (38.51 KiB) Viewed 306 times
IMG_20200701_084306_resize_66.jpg
IMG_20200701_084306_resize_66.jpg (45.41 KiB) Viewed 306 times

MichaelG.
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Re: Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

#8 Post by MichaelG. » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:10 am

My guess is that, to see through that surface, you will need to use true axial illumination and the shortest available wavelength of light.

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

trala
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Re: Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

#9 Post by trala » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:55 pm

Thank you for reply. Light source we will try to change and I will share result. But how to make true axial illumination?

MichaelG.
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Re: Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

#10 Post by MichaelG. » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:06 pm

trala wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:55 pm
Thank you for reply. Light source we will try to change and I will share result. But how to make true axial illumination?
.

The ideal solution would probably be a different microscope stand, but it is also possible to insert a conversion at the objective mount.

I will try to find a diagram of this arrangement for you.

MichaelG.

.

FOUND ONE here: http://www.microscope-antiques.com/watsonvertill.html
... scroll down the page.
Too many 'projects'

trala
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Re: Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

#11 Post by trala » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:58 am

I am sending you more detailed info about objectives:

worse objective: https://microscopecentral.com/products/ ... -378-825-5

better objective (clear visible): https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/microsco ... ntent11429

MichaelG.
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Re: Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

#12 Post by MichaelG. » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:08 pm

Wow !
... I never expected to see a Mitutoyo objective described as worse.

There is obviously something interesting going-on.

I think the clue may be in the Olympus product description:
Olympus' LCPLFLN-LCD lenses are optimal for observing specimens through glass substrates such as LCD panels. The adoption of optical correction rings allows aberration correction according to glass thickness.
... Which would be a specialist version of this:
https://www.olympus-lifescience.com/en/ ... orrection/

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

trala
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:04 pm

Re: Samsung TV "ultra black" under microscope

#13 Post by trala » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:58 pm

I already tried it, it has no influence on it.

But width of aperture is very diffrent as you can see in dimensions. One have around 12 mm and another 24mm.

It seems that angle of light is the biggest problem. Is there some another way how to change it?

Thanks

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