Video fix did not work

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Lilly Begonia
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Video fix did not work

#1 Post by Lilly Begonia » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:18 pm

So, the thing I bought to get around the USB 2.0/3.0 bottleneck did not work at all, and the video I got was just as bad as before. Out of focus, sped way up, with much poorer resolution than what I see on my screen. Really disappointed here after spending $80 on it. I don't know what to do now. I've adjusted ToupLite every way I can think of, but it makes no difference. Open to suggestions.

MichaelG.
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Re: Video fix did not work

#2 Post by MichaelG. » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:08 pm

Sorry to hear that, Lilly

It's no immediate help, but could you please confirm exactly which model of Mac Mini you are using, and what [if any] other USB devices you are using concurrently ?

Thanks
MichaelG.
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Lilly Begonia
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Re: Video fix did not work

#3 Post by Lilly Begonia » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:32 pm

MichaelG. wrote:Sorry to hear that, Lilly

It's no immediate help, but could you please confirm exactly which model of Mac Mini you are using, and what [if any] other USB devices you are using concurrently ?

Thanks
MichaelG.
Mac mini (Late 2012) 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5, running Sierra 10.12.6, 16 GB memory. Graphics is 1600 MHz DDR3, graphics Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536 MB, USB hub is ORICO 13 Port USB 3.0, with 48 tb of WD external USB drives on that, Kanex Thunderbolt to eSATA plus USB 3.0 Adapter plugged straight into the Thunderbolt jack. The adapter has eSATA and USB connections, my camera is USB so I used that connection. It works fine for stills and scanning slides, but for video is a straight loser offering no improvement over my previous situation. Bummer...

I connected the adapter to the Thunderbolt port on the mini, and the camera straight into that. The 13 port USB hub with 10 external WD external drives is isolated from it. At this point I think ToupLite for Mac is just bad software where video is concerned.

MichaelG.
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Re: Video fix did not work

#4 Post by MichaelG. » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:14 am

I had a good look around t'internet last night, and found worryingly few references to using USB3 cameras with Macs.

Although I currently have nothing with either USB3 or ThunderBolt, I was assuming this might be my next significant upgrade.
... Your experience is therefore distressing me too !!

Perhaps significantly [?] the Kanex literature that I've seen does not even mention cameras.

Sorry I can't offer any advice at the moment ... But I'm definitely interested.

MichaelG.
.
.
P.S. It would be worth checking what connection speed your Mac Mini is showing for the camera:
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201163
'System Information'
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Lilly Begonia
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Re: Video fix did not work

#5 Post by Lilly Begonia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:53 pm

Hi Michael, thanks for looking around. I checked the system report and found:


Thunderbolt to eSATA+USB3.0 Adapter:

Vendor Name: Kanex
Device Name: Thunderbolt to eSATA+USB3.0 Adapter
Vendor ID: 0xA7
Device ID: 0x4
Device Revision: 0x1
UID: 0x00A704801A00A100
Route String: 1
Firmware Version: 7.1
Port (Upstream):
Status: Device connected
Link Status: 0x2
Speed: Up to 10 Gb/s x1
Port Micro Firmware Version: 0.0.17

So the camera is definitely plugged into a much faster connection, it's just not making any difference in the video output. To my mind that lays the issue on the ToupLite doorstep.

MichaelG.
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Re: Video fix did not work

#6 Post by MichaelG. » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:28 pm

Lilly Begonia wrote: ... So the camera is definitely plugged into a much faster connection, it's just not making any difference in the video output. To my mind that lays the issue on the ToupLite doorstep.
Thanks for checking, Lilly
10 Gb/s is as good as it gets, I believe ... So yes, it's looking like a ToupLite problem.

What really worries me is that I have yet to find evidence that anyone is doing decent Mac software for this type of [high bit-rate video] camera.

MichaelG.
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Lilly Begonia
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Re: Video fix did not work

#7 Post by Lilly Begonia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:04 pm

MichaelG. wrote:
Lilly Begonia wrote: ... So the camera is definitely plugged into a much faster connection, it's just not making any difference in the video output. To my mind that lays the issue on the ToupLite doorstep.
Thanks for checking, Lilly
10 Gb/s is as good as it gets, I believe ... So yes, it's looking like a ToupLite problem.

What really worries me is that I have yet to find evidence that anyone is doing decent Mac software for this type of [high bit-rate video] camera.

MichaelG.
Well, just now ToupLite locked up on me and I had to quit out of it. I re-plugged the camera, started ToupLite back up and it said there was no device! Eh??? Another quit and replug, still no device. I unplugged the camera from the Kanex adapter, plugged it back into the USB hub, and ToupLite could see it again. So now I not only have troublesome software, but apparently hardware as well.

I'm finding the same thing you are, that no one makes good camera software for Mac. I've been looking around Amazon and came across this camera, which is supposed to work with a Mac, but after my experiences to date I'm not going to just jump on it, I want to find out how it performs and what the video output quality is.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005N ... _qh_dp_hza

Hobbyst46
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Re: Video fix did not work

#8 Post by Hobbyst46 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:07 pm

Lilly - I have neither a Mac nor a USB camera, but out of curiosity, I read the sale adv of the AMSCOPE MU1000A, 10Mp, also on Amazon. There are 11 buyer reviews. The detailed one (the first one) presents mixed feelings in my opinion, although it is not clear that there is an issue with a Mac.

Lilly Begonia
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Re: Video fix did not work

#9 Post by Lilly Begonia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:21 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:Lilly - I have neither a Mac nor a USB camera, but out of curiosity, I read the sale adv of the AMSCOPE MU1000A, 10Mp, also on Amazon. There are 11 buyer reviews. The detailed one (the first one) presents mixed feelings in my opinion, although it is not clear that there is an issue with a Mac.
Well thanks for responding, and it's not clear there's any issue with Macs, but then again I found none with ToupLite until I experienced the issues myself, and it's been locking up on me all morning. It worked fine all day yesterday, plugged into that Kanex Thunderbolt adapter, then this morning ToupLite could not see the camera on it. I'm not having fun with this.

There may not be stated issues with the software for that AMSCOPE MU1000A, but I'm guessing most reviewing it use Windows. I'd like to make sure of how it works on a Mac.

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Re: Video fix did not work

#10 Post by MichaelG. » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:22 pm

Lilly
Ref: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005N ... _qh_dp_hza

The single review on that Amazon page links to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8652DG249E
... which enthuses over ToupView

Sadly: ToupLite appears to be the 'Ugly Sister'

MichaelG.
Last edited by MichaelG. on Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lilly Begonia
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Re: Video fix did not work

#11 Post by Lilly Begonia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:23 pm

Okay, so I found out why the Kanex USB to Thunderbolt adapter quit working this morning, and it's because I have too many devices on the Mac's USB bus, they draw too much power, and that shuts down the Thunderbolt port. Well that sucks, but I can deal with it. I guess 10 USB drives on the USB bus is too much so I'm thinking to put them all on the Mac in the other room and access them over the network. That should take the load off the Mac Mini I have the camera on. Or I can just turn off the USB hub those disks are on while using the camera. That's the quick and dirty solution.

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Re: Video fix did not work

#12 Post by Lilly Begonia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:25 pm

MichaelG. wrote:The single review on that Amazon page links to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8652DG249E
... which enthuses over ToupView

Sadly: ToupLite appears to be the 'Ugly Sister'

MichaelG.
Yes Michael, I've heard ToupView is so very stellar, but sadly I'm not using Windows. I used to love XP Pro, but then they "improved" it, and Windows became something I really did not like. Then too there's the fact that every hacker and script kiddie on earth cut his teeth on Windows, and I got hacked and taken down multiple expensive times on Windows. Not going there again. All I can do at this point is adapt to the the limitations of ToupLite on my hardware platform. It's definitely the Ugly Sister of ToupView, but at least I don't get hacked and taken down like I did on Windows all the time. Most malware, viruses, and trojans are targeted on Windows. Life is full of little trade-offs....

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Re: Video fix did not work

#13 Post by MichaelG. » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:38 pm

Lilly Begonia wrote:Yes Michael, I've heard ToupView is so very stellar, but sadly I'm not using Windows.
[ ... ]
Not going there again.
I wasn't for one moment suggesting Windows :o
Merely mentioning that there is no review of ToupLite.

MichaelG.
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Hobbyst46
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Re: Video fix did not work

#14 Post by Hobbyst46 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:53 pm

Lilly
About USB power shortage, if this will console you - the NUC computer, an Intel + Windows cute modern small marvel, is also limited in this aspect, e.g. you cannot connect certain USB devices (a scanner and external HD for example) simultaneously...
Enjoy your system.

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Re: Video fix did not work

#15 Post by Lilly Begonia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:19 pm

MichaelG. wrote:
Lilly Begonia wrote:Yes Michael, I've heard ToupView is so very stellar, but sadly I'm not using Windows.
[ ... ]
Not going there again.
I wasn't for one moment suggesting Windows :o
Merely mentioning that there is no review of ToupLite.

MichaelG.
Oh, well I will happily provide a review of ToupLite wherever I can, especially regarding the quality of it's video output.

Lilly Begonia
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Re: Video fix did not work

#16 Post by Lilly Begonia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:21 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:Lilly
About USB power shortage, if this will console you - the NUC computer, an Intel + Windows cute modern small marvel, is also limited in this aspect, e.g. you cannot connect certain USB devices (a scanner and external HD for example) simultaneously...
Enjoy your system.

I'm not at all sure what that means. If it means there are certain limitations to the USB bus, then I have to agree. I had thought Apple's Thunderbolt interface a solution, but apparently it is not, as it competes for power with the Mac's internal USB bus. Doesn't work out in the end.

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Re: Video fix did not work

#17 Post by wporter » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:26 pm

All external USB hubs are not independently-powered; if yours is not, then that may be why your computer USB draw is excessive, and not permitting piling on a lot of USB devices. If that is the case, look around for a powered USB hub; it will have its own wall-wart power supply so that the hub is not drawing current from the computer. That may assist in solving your issue of too many devices.

Lilly Begonia
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Re: Video fix did not work

#18 Post by Lilly Begonia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:39 pm

wporter wrote:All external USB hubs are not independently-powered; if yours is not, then that may be why your computer USB draw is excessive, and not permitting piling on a lot of USB devices. If that is the case, look around for a powered USB hub; it will have its own wall-wart power supply so that the hub is not drawing current from the computer. That may assist in solving your issue of too many devices.
My USB hub is indeed externally powered and has a big fat wall wart plugged into it. It does not seem to make any difference where the number of devices on it are concerned. The issue seems to be how much power they draw from the USB bus on the Mac. Well how much power can they be drawing from that bus if they are all externally powered? I don't understand that, because they are externally powered anyway, but there it is. Perhaps it has to do with how many external drives are on the hub. There are a lot of them. 10 external USB drives. I'm not sure where the problem with this is unless it's with the limitations of the Mac's internal USB 2.0 bus. One might rightfully expect that the Thunderbolt interface at 10 gb/sec, would get around this, but I guess not. So much for the vaunted Thunderbolt interface if it has to compete internally with USB 2.0 for power in the system when that power is externally supplied.

My next move is to plug the 10 disk array into the Kanex adapter on the Thunderbolt jack with the camera on the 13 port USB 3.0 hub. I can't wait to see how that works out.

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Re: Video fix did not work

#19 Post by MichaelG. » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:38 pm

Lilly Begonia wrote:My next move is to plug the 10 disk array into the Kanex adapter on the Thunderbolt jack with the camera on the 13 port USB 3.0 hub. I can't wait to see how that works out.
Forgive me if I am missing some important point, but ... Wouldn't it be better to start at a simpler 'baseline' ?
i.e.unplug all the adapters and hubs, and plug the camera directly into the Mac Mini's USB3 port.

MichaelG.
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Lilly Begonia
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Re: Video fix did not work

#20 Post by Lilly Begonia » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:59 pm

MichaelG. wrote:
Lilly Begonia wrote:My next move is to plug the 10 disk array into the Kanex adapter on the Thunderbolt jack with the camera on the 13 port USB 3.0 hub. I can't wait to see how that works out.
Forgive me if I am missing some important point, but ... Wouldn't it be better to start at a simpler 'baseline' ?
i.e.unplug all the adapters and hubs, and plug the camera directly into the Mac Mini's USB3 port.

MichaelG.
Well here's the problem, the Mac Mini has only USB 2.0 ports, and a way faster Thunderbolt port, and my way around that was the much faster Thunderbolt port. That didn't work because of power draw on the Mini's USB 2.0 bus extending into the Thunderbolt bus with the ten external USB drives on it. All incoming data streams rely on the same bottleneck on the Mac Mini. So the Thunderbolt connection is basically useless if you have a lot of USB devices connected also, which I do. They all have external power supplies, but the Mac bus doesn't care for some mystical reason.

So in the morning I'll plug that 13 port USB 3.0 hub with it's 10 USB drives and the camera into that Kanex adapter and see what happens.

MichaelG.
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Re: Video fix did not work

#21 Post by MichaelG. » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:22 pm

Lilly Begonia wrote:Well here's the problem, the Mac Mini has only USB 2.0 ports, and a way faster Thunderbolt port, and my way around that was the much faster Thunderbolt port. < etc. >
Silly me ... when I asked you for the exact model of Mac Mini that you had, and you replied that it was the 2012 model; I found this page:
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_ ... specs.html
Which is evidently the wrong one ... I guess yours must be early 2012 [a.k.a. mid-2011]
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_ ... specs.html

MichaelG.
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Re: Video fix did not work

#22 Post by Crater Eddie » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:12 am

In your position I would either pick up a used Windows laptop or borrow one from a friend, install Toupview, and see if it works any differently. No need to put it on your home network at all, just get someone else to download Toupview onto a jump drive and install it from there. Give it all a good workout and you'll know where you are. Easy peasy.
CE
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LOMO BIOLAM L-2-2
LOMO POLAM L-213 / BIOLAM L-211 hybrid
LOMO Multiscope (Biolam)
Cameras: Canon T3i, Olympus E-P1 MFT, Amscope 3mp USB

Lilly Begonia
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Re: Video fix did not work

#23 Post by Lilly Begonia » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:25 am

Crater Eddie wrote:In your position I would either pick up a used Windows laptop or borrow one from a friend, install Toupview, and see if it works any differently. No need to put it on your home network at all, just get someone else to download Toupview onto a jump drive and install it from there. Give it all a good workout and you'll know where you are. Easy peasy.
CE
Eddie I've thought of that, and I could possibly get a Windows laptop on Craigslist real cheap, but I'm just not up for dealing with Windows again. What they turned it into since XP Pro is just not something I want anything to do with, and I certainly do not want it on my home network with it's manifold hacking vulnerabilities.

MichaelG.
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Re: Video fix did not work

#24 Post by MichaelG. » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:41 am

Lilly,

If I understand your previous posts correctly:
You can view good quality video from the OMAX camera on-screen, but cannot export it.

This may just be another layer of complexity ... But I think it could be the answer to our prayers.
https://www.araelium.com/screenflick

MichaelG.
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Lilly Begonia
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Re: Video fix did not work

#25 Post by Lilly Begonia » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:18 pm

MichaelG. wrote:Lilly,

If I understand your previous posts correctly:
You can view good quality video from the OMAX camera on-screen, but cannot export it.

This may just be another layer of complexity ... But I think it could be the answer to our prayers.
https://www.araelium.com/screenflick

MichaelG.

Hey thanks Michael! I'm downloading it now. This could be the fix I need. I'll have to see.

Lilly Begonia
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Re: Video fix did not work

#26 Post by Lilly Begonia » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:37 pm

Well no luck there Michael, launching Screenflick locks up ToupLite every time. The screen freezes and you have to unplug the Mac and restart to get the camera back. Thanks for the effort though.

MichaelG.
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Re: Video fix did not work

#27 Post by MichaelG. » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:25 pm

Lilly Begonia wrote:Well no luck there Michael, launching Screenflick locks up ToupLite every time. The screen freezes and you have to unplug the Mac and restart to get the camera back. Thanks for the effort though.
Oh Bother !!

MichaelG.
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Lilly Begonia
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Re: Video fix did not work

#28 Post by Lilly Begonia » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:41 pm

MichaelG. wrote:
Lilly Begonia wrote:Well no luck there Michael, launching Screenflick locks up ToupLite every time. The screen freezes and you have to unplug the Mac and restart to get the camera back. Thanks for the effort though.
Oh Bother !!

MichaelG.
Yup, that's what I said too Michael. It seems there's no way around the shortcomings of ToupLite. I cannot say I was surprised. I'm sending that Kanex adapter back, it was a lot more trouble than it was worth. Every time it dropped the camera I had to unplug the Mac and restart, and I had to do that several times this morning. Bleah!

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Re: Video fix did not work

#29 Post by amanda1 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:18 am

try to delete all the drivers and reinstall the driver for your camera. It must help. Probably you have some problems with software where there is some kind of error, which now prevents the normal work of the camera. As for camera, I would recommend USB 3.0 camera Point Gray Flea3, I used both on the MAC and on a simple PC. You may not need usb 3.0, you can even try cameras of the USB 2.0 series of the UCMOS camera

MichaelG.
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Re: Video fix did not work

#30 Post by MichaelG. » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:32 am

amanda1 wrote: ... As for camera, I would recommend USB 3.0 camera Point Gray Flea3, I used both on the MAC and on a simple PC.
Amanda,

I would be interested to hear of your experiences with modern Point Grey cameras on OS X.

I have an old Dragonfly_1 monochrome FireWire camera which works nicely on the Mac, but I have been wary about buying a newer model because the software & support seems to be so biased towards Windows.

This search of their site will show what I mean:
https://eu.ptgrey.com/site-search?q=mac+os+x

Grateful for any advice you can provide.

MichaelG.
Too many 'projects'

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