Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

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mrsonchus
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Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#1 Post by mrsonchus » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:55 pm

Hi all. As the title of this post suggests, I recently bought a 'Chinese unbranded' C-mount camera at the 48mp still and 4K video rating. This is all part of my ongoing battle to achieve at least usable video records of my many and frequent Botanical dissections. These I make as part of my slide-making pursuits - mainly microtome sectioned, stained and permanently mounted. I also however spend a lot of time with fresh material, especially mosses at this time of year, as I have a great interest in their taxonomy and anatomy, and of course the making of above slides of their structure and morphology.

The majority of slides I make of mosses however are of the temporary kind, usually water-mounted and coverslipped for close examination and photography under my Olympus BX50 compound-microscope. Together-with this end and indeed on the way towards it, I make close examinations and dissections at the stereo-microscope level, which I also find immensely rewarding not to mention fascinating and informative.

Anyway, a long time back now, at least 3 years I'd say, I've had the desire to be able to not only take reasonably decent stills through a stereo 'scope, but to record dissections and examinations with video also - this has proved to be a lot more difficult, on my modest budget anyway, than anticipated (hoped maybe...).
As experience grew I also upgraded from the ubiquitous 'Greenough type' stereo 'scope, such as those sold by Amscope et-al, to a more suitable 'CMO' or 'common main objective' type. This isn't a reflection of their relative qualities but of their suitability for my particular use, i.e. that of Botany and Botanical microscopy.

This is the camera,
Image

Mounted on phototube with focusable optic,
Image

USB2, HDMI and power connections, 'TF' AKA 'microSD' card slot visible on side. This is used to record video without computer USB connections...
Image

There's also a tripod screw-mount if needed....
Image

The remote control,
Image

It came with no instructions or pointers to of any kind - the nearest I could get was by looking at the Hayear-branded versions and here's a snip of some of their also very spartan info, enough to at least start me off with trying to figure-out more details for it's operation...
Image

Now a piece of video taken with this oddball camera - I say oddball as it really has taken me quite a few hours simply to be able to use it in a useful manner - it has many mysteries and quirks, and there's nowhere that I can find for a good description of it's operation. It has a habit of simply turning off under certain series of operations....
Anyway, a sample of my moss-bothering,


A couple of stills, not great but good enough for stereo 'scope records for me,
Image

Image

I have another moss-shoot dissection was continued right to the stage of water-mounted slides and images of what was discovered through my Olympus BX50's highly-magnifying eye! I'll make another post of that one I think.
Last edited by mrsonchus on Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chineses Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#2 Post by Hobbyst46 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:39 pm

hi mrsonchus,
Is the camera not supported by Toupview ? or MICAM perhaps ?

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Re: Chineses Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#3 Post by mrsonchus » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:16 pm

Hi, no ToupView only seems to support it's own ToupCam branded cameras in my experience. The ToupView software is so good that it makes a ToupCam my first-choice C-mount camera for sure. This is seriously offset, to the extent of causing my search for alternatives, by the pathetic and virtually unusable frame-rate in USB2 connected use. The frame rate barely touches 5fps and then only rarely. This is about the best I can get from the 5mp USB2 LCMOS ToupCam that I have..... That is with my Linx 32-bit tablet, with my 64-bit laptop with SSD storage, which is blisteringly-fast, (Windows 10 loads in about 2-3 seconds....) the frame rate is down to about 1-2 fps - totally unusable..

I have tried all the 'usual suspect' to improve things but it seems that for my HP laptop or perhaps Windows 10 in general, the ToupCam I have is pretty unusable. When the HDMI-cam (for want of a better name) is connected to a monitor on my stereo 'scope desk not computer (USB) link is needed - it is able to record video and take stills presumably using it's own built-in firmware and the microSD card. This really is convenient as I use the remote to take snaps or video as I'm using the 'scope. It's just that the so-called 48mp camera/sensor is pretty poor (hardly surprising for it's price I think) Sensitivity seems to be pretty limited with the images turning very grainy if the lighting is not at just the right level (not banding, which happens too) - that is to say the combination of exposure compensation, gain and light-level. It has in this respect 'sweet spots' where video is very good and stills are at least usable - but this little device is a compromise made usable by it's convenience with stereo-microscopic dissections such as mine.
It can't compete of course with a DSLR, but I don't really want to use a £600-£800 DSLR for what is usually long-duration video and/or monitor (HDMI) output - I fear for the sensor if I do this.... The ability to use untethered is very good - but as a whole the camera is a bit of a basket case - requiring a lot of time to work-out the controls, then an unwavering ability to resist screaming uncontrollably when it 'decides' you've followed a sequence of actions that it can't handle and simply turns off!

That said it's reasonably usable if the on-board image and video playback/review functions are avoided. The are many inconsistencies and downright bizarre quirks to this camera that it's a wonder any are ever sold to be honest. Only my considerable experience of computers and cameras is allowing me to use this really. For a novice this camera would I'm pretty sure be an insurmountable problem to use...

BUT, it makes me think about the branded Hayer versions that have seemingly better menu systems (i.e. firmware as the menu items seem to be the same in a different front-end on screen) as this may suggest that they have better firmware. Significantly though the Hayears seem from what I've gleaned online, to be able to be used (tethered USB) with the 'S-EYE' software with all functions working. S-EYE does detect and is usable with this unbranded version but only in a very limited way indeed, as limited in fact as in Windows own built-in camera program.
The crux of the matter is I suspect, that in HDMI-mode untethered the camera uses no drivers, only built-in firmware (which seems to be pretty bad to say the least) to control and make settings etc. When tethered via USB this camera seems to be detected as a basic web-cam and uses Windows' own generic/basic USB camera drivers.

I think Hayear must have actual drivers for this camera type, that not only enable the software to detect the camera as a Hayear and work fully with the S-EYE software in this case, whereas the driver-free (like mine) versions can only interface with software at the generic levels. The same is true I think with the ToupCams and ToupView branded software - where branded versions of camera and software (of ToupCams and ToupView) only work as branded-matches as it were....
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Re: Chineses Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#4 Post by BramHuntingNematodes » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:45 pm

I understand why the CMO is better-suited to photography, but why for botany in particular? These specimens seem to have a lot of relief.
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Re: Chineses Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#5 Post by MicroBob » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:53 pm

Hi John,
apparently the chinese printed all necessary information on the outside of the housing, perhaps there is a side with closer instructions?
What I can see from the print on the housing is that it is powered by a V8 motor and at 4800W it consumes quite some energy, not for a V8 but for a camera. :D
I wish you a successful further investigation!

Be careful with drivers from the internet though. a year ago I googled for a driver for an older cam of this kind and used the virus scanner twice where I should have used it thrice.... :shock:

Bob

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Re: Chineses Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#6 Post by mrsonchus » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:24 pm

BramHuntingNematodes wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:45 pm
I understand why the CMO is better-suited to photography, but why for botany in particular? These specimens seem to have a lot of relief.
Hi Bram', I find the CMO better for my use as I really do like the 'straight-down' (orthogonal?) parallel images pathways, which are in use virtually identical to each other. This makes the use of a camera and monitor very easy as they are 'looking at' the same view that you are through both eyes. With my Amscope simulfocus The camera's view never came close to matching my eyepiece view in terms of perspective, which made photography tricky if images as seen were desired.
The slightly seperated but orthogonal and parallel image paths are very, very close with the CMO I find, enabling me to image stills and video without complication.

Another extremely useful aspect is the ability to look 'straight down into' or between structures with the CMO - very much and frequently desired with as you say high-relief, or just full-on 3D on a macro scale, my Botanical dissection/investigation use. This is not really possible with the Greenough system as of course the image pathways are necessarily angled. For example zooming down into a structure such as an essentially cylindrical flower or even moss capsule is a breeze with CMO - especially with the quality of the SMZ.

Another thing I have become increasingly aware of with use is that I'm able to dissect/manipulate whilst viewing the monitor almost as well as through the binocular ports. I suspected also that the oft-mentioned increase in eye-comfort of longer-time viewing that CMO is said to give compared to Greenough was just the ever-present hype of these times. In use however I really have found this to be the case - use for say an hour with the CMO is honestly very confortable whereas with an hour of Greenough use it was not as so. However given also the difference in quality between the Amscope Greenough and the SMZ this is not perhaps a 100% reliable comment.
John B

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Re: Chineses Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#7 Post by mrsonchus » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:25 pm

MicroBob wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:53 pm
Hi John,
apparently the chinese printed all necessary information on the outside of the housing, perhaps there is a side with closer instructions?
What I can see from the print on the housing is that it is powered by a V8 motor and at 4800W it consumes quite some energy, not for a V8 but for a camera. :D
I wish you a successful further investigation!

Be careful with drivers from the internet though. a year ago I googled for a driver for an older cam of this kind and used the virus scanner twice where I should have used it thrice.... :shock:

Bob
Ha!Ha :D :D Yes, I wouldn't try an unknown driver... too risky!
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Re: Chineses Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#8 Post by MichaelG. » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:40 pm

Forgive my ignorance please, John ... but can you explain where the 4K claim comes from ?

The back of the camera mentions 1080P and 2K , but not 4K

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-defi ... ideo_modes
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Re: Chineses Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#9 Post by mrsonchus » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:06 am

MichaelG. wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:40 pm
Forgive my ignorance please, John ... but can you explain where the 4K claim comes from ?

The back of the camera mentions 1080P and 2K , but not 4K

MichaelG.
Hi Michael, cripes! I see what you mean, the decal is wrong! This version has the 4K (i.e. 4000 pixels across in 4K video) capability at 25fps and 2K at 30fps - I just took a short video of the menu in action - posting here after upload to YT in a short while. It does indeed produce 4K video as well as others, I edit and reformat them using AVS video suite tools before YTube upload of course.

Here's a short video of the menu in action and the various resolutions available for both video and stills - the video is saved as .MOV, the stills as .jpg by the camera.
Quite a choice really! Apologies for the hand-held video.. :oops:


File detail from Windows explorer of the >2GB 5minute 4K file.
Image
Last edited by mrsonchus on Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Chineses Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#10 Post by MichaelG. » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:16 am

Thanks, John

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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#11 Post by hans » Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:17 am

Curious what the 4K output looks like but when I view it on YouTube the highest quality option is 720p. Problem converting/uploading? Or is it just me for some reason?

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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#12 Post by mrsonchus » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:50 am

Hi, not sure. When I converted the .MOV 4K to mp4 for YT with AVS I chose the YT option. Is it possible to put 4K onto YT though - the file is over 2GB for 5 mins...
Perhaps I could provide a link to download the 4K or even a smaller part of it for you to peruse in the full 4K straight from camera?
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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#13 Post by MichaelG. » Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:07 pm

.

That would be very interesting, John
... even if it’s only a short clip.

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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#14 Post by mrsonchus » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:48 pm

Now then, I snipped a video (4K) down to a sub 100MB size, as the dowload plugin of W-Press appears at least in the free-version I just installed, to require. Anyway, I've put up a webpage with a password-protected link to the downlaodable .MOV file. It's from an early attempt with the camera so not only is it very short but not very good, but maybe better than nothing until I capture an optimal video-short which I'll put up also, hopefully tonight some time...

Link now removed. Thanks for downloading and comments all.
Last edited by mrsonchus on Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#15 Post by hans » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:26 pm

Download works, thanks John.

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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#16 Post by Hobbyst46 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:09 pm

Downloaded. Windows Media Player (on a Win 7 machine) failed to run it, but VLC player runs it fine.
Thanks mrsonchus !

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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#17 Post by mrsonchus » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:25 pm

Good that it works - sorry it's a rather poor example though - it is much better (the video recording that is) than this example, especially now I'm a bit better with the mysterious and rather quirky nature of the camera. The subject of the snippet is the apical-meristem region of a shoot - with leaf primordia developing, these are the very apical structures emergent and are truly tiny.
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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#18 Post by MichaelG. » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:02 am

I was pleasantly surprised that it runs natively on the iPad Pro 9.7”
... not seeing full 4K resolution, but looks good as video.

A single static frame is noisy, but that’s to be expected.

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.
A small crop from the final frame
A small crop from the final frame
DC98BE94-8563-4D06-8098-908FEE6A35D1.jpeg (67.61 KiB) Viewed 9446 times
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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#19 Post by mrsonchus » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:42 am

Excellent - tomorrow now, I'll take either a new viedo or extract some more snippets from rather better 4K recordings I have. This snippet is from basically the shortest/smallest video I could find from the camera recently.

Meanwhile there must surely be a way to make a >100MB file available for others to download - perhaps if I 'wrap it' in say a zip-file to change it's video identity to zip it may be able to be downloaded as 'just another file'? I'll see what I can do. One thing's for sure though - I won't be routinely using 4K as the files are enormouse and my screens used to view them are basically laptop and monitor screens up to about 24inch max!
In fact I tried the 1080P (60fps) format of the camera a couple of days ago and it's pretty-much fine for my intended use or recording under a stereo 'scope... Up until then I kept getting camera crashes (it just powers off!) attempting to use 1080P... A strange beast indeed is this camera. The 60fps may be a problem with lower-light necessitating longer exposure times for frames? Guessing really...

Back soon hopefully with larger/longer video sample..

Here's a link to a longer and better recording, but not sure if this link allows downloading? I think it does, I just viewed it as an incognito visitor - i.e. not signed in to either Google or this forum, and the download icon works in the viewer top RH area.....
Last edited by mrsonchus on Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#20 Post by MichaelG. » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:35 am

mrsonchus wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:42 am

Here's a link to a longer and better recording, but not sure if this link allows downloading? I think it does, I just viewed it as an incognito visitor - i.e. not signed in to either Google or this forum, and the download icon works in the viewer top RH area.....
.
Viewing is fine on the iPad, thanks John ... ‘though the maximum resolution offered is 1080P

Download option looks like it should work [note, I am signed-in to Google] but pops up this warning:
Google Drive can't scan this file for viruses.

Jelly Lichen.MOV (2.2G) is too large for Google to scan for viruses. Would you still like to download this file?

Download anyway
So ... perhaps sharing recorded 4K content is not very practical : which does seem a little strange when millions of televisions are routinely streaming the stuff live :?

Methinks HDMI must be very, very, clever !!

MichaelG.

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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#21 Post by MicroBob » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:53 am

Hi John,
I was able to watch the video inside google drive with up to 1080 resolution and was offered the download. I didn't download it as I didn't want to have that 2,2 GB file on my already full computer. In my view 1080p should do for all purposes, it offers what the eye can resolve, and on bigger screens one watches from bigger viewing distance.
If google drive doesn't proove useful you might try vimeo. Depending on overall storage volume, weekly upload and needed functions it can be used for free but is essentially a commercial service. It might also depend on whom you would like to address: Smart TVs often already have a youtube button, so access might be easiest to this provider.

Recently I have made a video where I show how to make hand sections and stain them with most simple means. But I haven't decided yet what to make with it apart from using it for a group meeting. I'm not really keen to become a "Youtuber" :roll:

Bob

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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#22 Post by MichaelG. » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:18 am

.

Please forgive me a brief digression, John
As a Botanist, you might like this [concerning Darwin’s Abominable Mystery] : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-55769269

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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#23 Post by Hobbyst46 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:57 am

John, I easily watched the 5 min video directly from Google on my Win7 computer; the highest resolution was 1080p which seems fine on my 24" monitor.

Was the illuminator a white-light LED ring around the objective, or other ?

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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#24 Post by mrsonchus » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:28 pm

MicroBob wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:53 am
Hi John,
'''''''''
Recently I have made a video where I show how to make hand sections and stain them with most simple means. But I haven't decided yet what to make with it apart from using it for a group meeting. I'm not really keen to become a "Youtuber" :roll:

Bob
Same here Bob - I use YT for embedding in posts here and basically just to keep-my-eye-in as it were with such platforms.
John B

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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#25 Post by mrsonchus » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:30 pm

Hobbyst46 wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:57 am
John, I easily watched the 5 min video directly from Google on my Win7 computer; the highest resolution was 1080p which seems fine on my 24" monitor.

Was the illuminator a white-light LED ring around the objective, or other ?
Hi, erm... as with most of my stereo work, the illumination isn't standardised or consistent. I use a mixture of incident light-ring, incident gooseneck, and transmitted.... All LED.
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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#26 Post by mrsonchus » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:43 pm

MichaelG. wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:18 am
.

Please forgive me a brief digression, John
As a Botanist, you might like this [concerning Darwin’s Abominable Mystery] : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-55769269

MichaelG.
Hi Michael, yes I've read this and of course the mystery continues - we've gone from the 'traditional' taxonomy based upon physical morphometrics and form similarities to gene pattern commonality - systematics included... It'll be a while before we physically perfect the sequence matching I suppose - but to my mind while this is very suggestive, as are the morphological approaches, a certain amount of theorising will always be needed. The moment mankind says something is 'this way' the question of 'why do we think that' arises. Tracing these proposed lineages back into prehistory I think necessarily requires morphology to be included. The there's the parallel-evolutionary pathway phenomenon, also the fact that features are lost as well as gained and preserved! A fascinating subject in it's own right.
Last edited by mrsonchus on Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chinese Unbranded 48mp C-mount Industrial HDMI Camera

#27 Post by mrsonchus » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:50 pm

MichaelG. wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:35 am
mrsonchus wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:42 am

Here's a link to a longer and better recording, but not sure if this link allows downloading? I think it does, I just viewed it as an incognito visitor - i.e. not signed in to either Google or this forum, and the download icon works in the viewer top RH area.....
.
Viewing is fine on the iPad, thanks John ... ‘though the maximum resolution offered is 1080P

Download option looks like it should work [note, I am signed-in to Google] but pops up this warning:
Google Drive can't scan this file for viruses.

Jelly Lichen.MOV (2.2G) is too large for Google to scan for viruses. Would you still like to download this file?

Download anyway
So ... perhaps sharing recorded 4K content is not very practical : which does seem a little strange when millions of televisions are routinely streaming the stuff live :?

Methinks HDMI must be very, very, clever !!

MichaelG.

.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
Yes, I quickly came to the conclusion that 4K is essentially impractical in this use - those gargantuan (oh how we'll laugh at that though in the future!) files are extremely unwieldy for any attempts to edit or manipulate them, not to mention the storage! I'll likely stick to 1080P as it seems as said to give the level of performance appropriate for my simple stereo 'scope work.
John B

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